Game 11: Pack in New York

[Flames24Rulz]

Does anyone suspect, like I do, that the team didn't prepare their most A game for the Giants? Doesn't excuse the loss, which was caused in part by bad tackling and blocking, regardless of scheme. But it makes me think of the Pack and Cardinals from a few years ago. We played them in preseason, then Week 17, then the wild card. We blew them out in preseason and Week 17, then lost in the wild card. Not that the Cardinals didn't try or even just rested their starters in Week 17, they just didn't show their full hand or A game plan.

It's a good possibility we're going to see the Giants in the playoffs, maybe McCarthy learned from the Cardinals games that it's alright to not put your best game plan on tape in a relatively meaningless game?

Looked like a combination of factors to me last night. Lack of intensity, lack of gameplanning, just bad play all around. It kind of felt like a preseason game out there last night for us, to be honest.

[Run-MKE 311]

Short and sweet:

Our O-Line was a human turnstile - A Rod was not sharp at all - they are trying to force Cobb way to much in the offense, no J-Mike or Jordy (outside of the touch) - who kidnapped James Starks? - get Clay back NOW - Tackle, tackle, tackle...

Ok I am good, onto next week.

[ReddRum]

Short and sweet: Ted Thompson got us in this mess and won't get us out of it until the offseason - EPIC FAIL of never getting free agents when needed. Also did I mention McCarthy is just an awful play caller! Pathetic

[Newz]

Short and sweet: Ted Thompson got us in this mess and won't get us out of it until the offseason - EPIC FAIL of never getting free agents when needed. Also did I mention McCarthy is just an awful play caller! Pathetic

[chuckleslove]

The mess that half of our starters can go on IR/be out with injuries including multiple pro bowlers and we still feel like we have a chance to win games and go to the playoffs? 20+ other teams in the NFL wish their GM got them in that mess.

[rilamann]

Does anyone suspect, like I do, that the team didn't prepare their most A game for the Giants? Doesn't excuse the loss, which was caused in part by bad tackling and blocking, regardless of scheme. But it makes me think of the Pack and Cardinals from a few years ago. We played them in preseason, then Week 17, then the wild card. We blew them out in preseason and Week 17, then lost in the wild card. Not that the Cardinals didn't try or even just rested their starters in Week 17, they just didn't show their full hand or A game plan.

It's a good possibility we're going to see the Giants in the playoffs, maybe McCarthy learned from the Cardinals games that it's alright to not put your best game plan on tape in a relatively meaningless game?

The Packers did seem to approach the game with a conservative mentality.Gameplan wise it was really conservative on both sides of the ball and you get the sense that some of guys they held out with injuries could have played had it been a must win.

I think the Packers value winning these remaining division games having our main guys healthy and ready to go in those games.

If we beat the Giants maybe we go from #4 seed to #3 seed but if we lose any of these division games we won't make the playoffs.

I agree with you 100%.

[LUKE23]

Short and sweet: Ted Thompson got us in this mess and won't get us out of it until the offseason - EPIC FAIL of never getting free agents when needed.

[Flames24Rulz]

Short and sweet: Ted Thompson got us in this mess and won't get us out of it until the offseason - EPIC FAIL of never getting free agents when needed. Also did I mention McCarthy is just an awful play caller! Pathetic

Good god. I think our line would've been decent enough if Bulaga and Sherrod were actually healthy. Doesn't Thompson deserve some credit for turning the defense around from one of the worst in NFL history to an above average unit this year by just drafting defensive players? I'm sure OL will be the primary focus in the draft in 2013. If Thompson hasn't earned your trust by now, he never will.

[rilamann]

Sunday's game was only the 2nd time in over 3 years the Packers have lost a game by more than 8pts (1 possession).

That's a pretty good mess TT got us into if you ask me.

[El Duderino]

Does anyone suspect, like I do, that the team didn't prepare their most A game for the Giants? Doesn't excuse the loss, which was caused in part by bad tackling and blocking, regardless of scheme. But it makes me think of the Pack and Cardinals from a few years ago. We played them in preseason, then Week 17, then the wild card. We blew them out in preseason and Week 17, then lost in the wild card. Not that the Cardinals didn't try or even just rested their starters in Week 17, they just didn't show their full hand or A game plan.

It's a good possibility we're going to see the Giants in the playoffs, maybe McCarthy learned from the Cardinals games that it's alright to not put your best game plan on tape in a relatively meaningless game?

The Packers did seem to approach the game with a conservative mentality.Gameplan wise it was really conservative on both sides of the ball and you get the sense that some of guys they held out with injuries could have played had it been a must win.

I think the Packers value winning these remaining division games having our main guys healthy and ready to go in those games.

If we beat the Giants maybe we go from #4 seed to #3 seed but if we lose any of these division games we won't make the playoffs.

I agree with you 100%.

I disagree with both of you two big time

The Packers weren't sitting on top of the division by multiple games, they were tied with the Bears. This was a conference game which potentially could impact a tiebreaker. It was a national TV game with tons of people watching. Because of all three factors, the team had plenty of reasons to play well and win.

So i don't see motivation being a factor at all. We lost that game for a far more basic reason and a reason that plays a pretty sizable factor who wins any football game, that being the Packers got their assssss kicked on the line of scrimmage, on both sides of the ball.

When you have two NFL teams playing each other that both have an upper-tier QB, if one of those teams gets absolutely dominated on the line of scrimmage as Green Bay did, it's not only nearly impossible to win, odds are that team will lose in ugly fashion.

The Giants could run the ball, we couldn't as usual. The Giants line protected Manning very well, thus he had plenty of time to wait for receivers to get open and throw without a pass rusher in his face. On the flip side, the Packers line got rag dolled all game long, destroying any game plan the team had going in. That was why we saw what we saw.

[trwi7]

Anyone who thinks the Packers went with a conservative game plan because the game didn't mean much is trying to downplay just how much we got our asses kicked. Do you really think McCarthy put a game plan together during the week that was this conservative considering that the Bucs, Vikings and Seahawks were a game behind us?

There's no way he just throws that game considering one of the first tiebreakers is record in the conference. I'm sure McCarthy and the whole team would be feeling much better if they were 8-3, two games up on their closest wildcard competitors and only 5 games to play.

[eagle13]

TT is a great GM hands down. But he is human and does make the ocassional mistake. It took him a couple years to learn to value Gs and staighten out the OL. One lesson TT might have learned this year is to not under-value Cs and try to be cheap at the position. I agree w/ him not investing in Wells but he should have been willing to pay for one of the bigger/better/younger FA Cs.

[askdavescat]

Packers have been slow to adapt to their misfortune. With the o-line not doing its job (all season), the offense needed to employ more 3 step drops and the dinking and dunking of 2007. Pass to set up the run. Instead, they've been sticking to last year's approach of more vertical passing, and they don't have the horses for it right now.

I agree with this in principle, but there are a couple problems:

1. Rodgers just refuses to throw short. There were a number of occasions Sunday night where there were open receivers in the 7 - 12 yards down field range, right in front of Rodgers, and he refused to make the throw. He insists on 'trying to make a play,' which against the NYG / SF's of the world, is an alternative way of saying 'get knocked on my @ss.'

2. Nelson and Jones never do anything but run down the sidelines. That leaves Cobb, the RB's and TE's to work the middle. Teams have figured out Rodgers' fixation with Cobb, and even though he's getting catches, Rodgers is waiting for/forcing to many throws to Cobb, when others are open. Neither Starks or Finley are reliable enough catching to ball to sustain a drive dinking and dunking. Knowing that, Green coming in on 3rd down is a virtual tip-off to other teams, and they just grab him at the line of scrimmage, so he can't get into his route.

[xTitan]

I think the Packers really miss Philbin, he was incredibly under rated. Philbin was the o-line coach before being promoted to O-Coordinator, yet not only was he the one guy who oversaw the entire offense, was not a "yes" man to McCarthy, and really continued to work with that offensive line. I realize TT really dropped the ball this season where the o-line is concerned, I just feel Philbin would have been a much bigger positive influence on the line and offense overall.

[LUKE23]

1. Rodgers just refuses to throw short. There were a number of occasions Sunday night where there were open receivers in the 7 - 12 yards down field range, right in front of Rodgers, and he refused to make the throw. He insists on 'trying to make a play,' which against the NYG / SF's of the world, is an alternative way of saying 'get knocked on my @ss.'

Unless you think he's audibling every play, a lot of this is on MM. And it's something I"ve talked about all year. We need to get back to the short passing game and stop pretending this is 2011. It isn't.

[El Duderino]

1. Rodgers just refuses to throw short. There were a number of occasions Sunday night where there were open receivers in the 7 - 12 yards down field range, right in front of Rodgers, and he refused to make the throw. He insists on 'trying to make a play,' which against the NYG / SF's of the world, is an alternative way of saying 'get knocked on my @ss.'

Unless you think he's audibling every play, a lot of this is on MM. And it's something I"ve talked about all year. We need to get back to the short passing game and stop pretending this is 2011. It isn't.

Obviously Rodgers doesn't audible on every play, but in listening to his weekly podcasts on 540 over the last two years, he has a bigger impact on what plays are actually run than i had thought.

He has talked about how a number of the plays have a pass and run built into them. It's then up to Aaron as he checks out the defensive alignment to choose the run or pass option. Even on pass plays the receivers often have to look at the defense which then can dictate their route to run. The more i've listened to that show as Rodgers goes into real high detail about certain plays which worked well/didn't work to how they attack certain alignments, it makes me laugh more when i see some here bitching about McCarthy calling this or that play during a game when a lot of those people bitching don't even know if it was MM or Rodgers.

Take all of the running plays vs the Giants and Lions which largely went nowhere and many here were bitching about. Aaron talked about how there are times defenses have not only just left 7 in the box, there were only 6 in the box in various sub-packages. That this is very hard to throw against both long and short, so you almost have to try and run the ball against an alignment like that or the defense will stay in it. Also that when a four man rush is getting consistent pressure without having to blitz and both safeties deep, it allows the linebackers and corners to crowd the shorter passes more instead of having to take deeper drops.

[crkone]

More reason to risk having Cobb run more often. He is the best running back on the team.

[askdavescat]

1. Rodgers just refuses to throw short. There were a number of occasions Sunday night where there were open receivers in the 7 - 12 yards down field range, right in front of Rodgers, and he refused to make the throw. He insists on 'trying to make a play,' which against the NYG / SF's of the world, is an alternative way of saying 'get knocked on my @ss.'

Unless you think he's audibling every play, a lot of this is on MM. And it's something I"ve talked about all year. We need to get back to the short passing game and stop pretending this is 2011. It isn't.

Obviously Rodgers doesn't audible on every play, but in listening to his weekly podcasts on 540 over the last two years, he has a bigger impact on what plays are actually run than i had thought.

He has talked about how a number of the plays have a pass and run built into them. It's then up to Aaron as he checks out the defensive alignment to choose the run or pass option. Even on pass plays the receivers often have to look at the defense which then can dictate their route to run. The more i've listened to that show as Rodgers goes into real high detail about certain plays which worked well/didn't work to how they attack certain alignments, it makes me laugh more when i see some here bitching about McCarthy calling this or that play during a game when a lot of those people bitching don't even know if it was MM or Rodgers.

Take all of the running plays vs the Giants and Lions which largely went nowhere and many here were bitching about. Aaron talked about how there are times defenses have not only just left 7 in the box, there were only 6 in the box in various sub-packages. That this is very hard to throw against both long and short, so you almost have to try and run the ball against an alignment like that or the defense will stay in it. Also that when a four man rush is getting consistent pressure without having to blitz and both safeties deep, it allows the linebackers and corners to crowd the shorter passes more instead of having to take deeper drops.

I think both of you are pretty much seeing the same things I do, and basically agree on what 'should' be happening.

To Luke's question about whether Rodgers is audibiling every play - Obviously none of us 'knows,' we're just getting a sense of what's going on from watching Rodgers' game. I'm not sure it's even the case where he's audibiling, as much as not executing the play that's called. My 'suspicion' is that even when a shorter throw is the called play, when Rodgers drops back, it's so ingrained in him to always 'go for it.,' that he disregards the short routes, and tries to wait for something deep to open up. I suspect this is why we repeatedly see those deep attempts ( and usually failures ) on 3rd and 1's.

Again, obviously I don't 'know' what's happening in regards to these play calls and their execution, these are just my suspicions.

[crkone]

‏@BobMcGinn
#Packers at least looking at vet O-linemen. In for tryout Tues was G-T Ray Feinga (6-4, 320), cut by Miami 9-26. On Fish 53 part of '10, '11

[humanrefutation]

1. Rodgers just refuses to throw short. There were a number of occasions Sunday night where there were open receivers in the 7 - 12 yards down field range, right in front of Rodgers, and he refused to make the throw. He insists on 'trying to make a play,' which against the NYG / SF's of the world, is an alternative way of saying 'get knocked on my @ss.'

Unless you think he's audibling every play, a lot of this is on MM. And it's something I"ve talked about all year. We need to get back to the short passing game and stop pretending this is 2011. It isn't.

Obviously Rodgers doesn't audible on every play, but in listening to his weekly podcasts on 540 over the last two years, he has a bigger impact on what plays are actually run than i had thought.

He has talked about how a number of the plays have a pass and run built into them. It's then up to Aaron as he checks out the defensive alignment to choose the run or pass option. Even on pass plays the receivers often have to look at the defense which then can dictate their route to run. The more i've listened to that show as Rodgers goes into real high detail about certain plays which worked well/didn't work to how they attack certain alignments, it makes me laugh more when i see some here bitching about McCarthy calling this or that play during a game when a lot of those people bitching don't even know if it was MM or Rodgers.

Take all of the running plays vs the Giants and Lions which largely went nowhere and many here were bitching about. Aaron talked about how there are times defenses have not only just left 7 in the box, there were only 6 in the box in various sub-packages. That this is very hard to throw against both long and short, so you almost have to try and run the ball against an alignment like that or the defense will stay in it. Also that when a four man rush is getting consistent pressure without having to blitz and both safeties deep, it allows the linebackers and corners to crowd the shorter passes more instead of having to take deeper drops.

QFT. I've been hearing the same things on Tuesdays with Aaron. That's why I keep pushing back against some of the "PASS PASS PASS" posts on this board. You have to run the ball effectively for the pass to be consistently effective.