Should Bryan Colangelo be Fired

[J-Roc]

But to JROC's comment above, you can find a replacement, no doubt. We had one in our organization who left for Denver, and look at the way they're building their team. We shouldn't let fear of the unknown mask the fact that our team's on court performance is in shambles.

No I don't mean I have a fear of wanting a replacement. I'm saying out basketball media....Wolstat? Koreen? These guys don't have the clout.....or don't feel they do.....to demand a change of Bryan Colangelo. Our baseball media, and of course hockey media, are so much more powerful in their respective sports, they are very comfortable calling out GM's.

[Duffman100]

But to JROC's comment above, you can find a replacement, no doubt. We had one in our organization who left for Denver, and look at the way they're building their team. We shouldn't let fear of the unknown mask the fact that our team's on court performance is in shambles.

No I don't mean I have a fear of wanting a replacement. I'm saying out basketball media....Wolstat? Koreen? These guys don't have the clout.....or don't feel they do.....to demand a change of Bryan Colangelo. Our baseball media, and of course hockey media, are so much more powerful in their respective sports, they are very comfortable calling out GM's.

Ah sorry, misread what you wrote.

Yeah, I wonder why that is...you'd think a strong following is all the clout you need. Both those guys have a dedicated following.

Maybe they believe that he shouldn't be fired.

[osamu]

I had been a fan of the Raptors since the first year. I am no longer because I cannot stomach the loosing and I have no hope that the future will be any different. Was I a typical fan? Most likely; I went to 5-8 games a year and lived and breathed every game, transaction and draft. But no longer.

As a fan of multiple sports in Toronto, the common denominator of MLSE and loosing teams cannot be ignored. What is the correlation? I could guess that it has to do with a priority focus on profits/money, "product" and the like versus the "just win" philosophy. If you consider the NFL's policy of not letting corporations own teams, there must be something to this strand of thought. Ultimately, though, if the philosophy of the ownership is to put "good product" in the arena and on the air, is the team's winning record going to be as good if you focus on winning? I would content not because they aren't necessarily aligned goals.

So what does this have to do with Colangelo? Personally, I don't think he is a great GM. This team doesn't have a star player and in this league, with very, very few exceptions, those teams don't win, so why build one? So, yes I would fire Colangelo but I would say that the ownership priority has to change to "WIN" as well before a successor is hired.

I feel the same. I'm just going to follow other teams, I'm just not interested in the product the mlse has been pushing. Ever since the Hedo saga there has been this glimmer of false hope BC has been creating. Instead of a full out tank and getting better over time, we've witnessed so many bandaid moves addressing the hype, the superficial things. On paper it seems all find and dandy but the core problems are still there.

[darth_federer]

Great article Duffman. The media in this city is embarrassingly spineless and hasnt called out Colangelo despite 1 winning season in 7 years.

[Randle McMurphy]

Should he be fired? No. He should serve out the year and then leave when his contract expires. The board should closely scrutinize any proposed trades, requiring approval from Stefanski as well as Colangelo. If any move smacks of desperation, the board should simply say no. If necessary, I'd tie his hands the way the board did with Grunwald in 2004-05 (?). GG wanted to move expiring contracts at the trade deadline and take on more money. The board said no.

Out of curiosity, why do you feel as though he should be allowed to survive the season?

I think it should depend on whether it looks like we're bottom three (with a good chance to keep our draft pick) or not. Chances are we will improve, still be out of the playoffs, but definitely not keeping the draft pick. In that case. Let him play out the string unless a strong candidate becomes available during the season - the way BC did in 06.

If we are headed for bottom 3, then fire Colangelo immediately and hire someone with a strong drafting pedigree - other than IT.

What exactly is supposed to be the difference between finishing in the bottom 3 and finishing in the bottom 5-10 as it pertains to evaluating Colangelo's job and the consistently bad performance of this team?

I can't come up with a good reason not to just get rid of him right now. He's damaged the team enough. We're already three years too late here.

[Randle McMurphy]

BC (2 times EOY) will never get fired, get real kids!
Right now Raps have the best team they had in years, it is a matter of clicking and it is not happening during the brutal schedule Raps had at the beginning of this season.
Things will turn around (with same people) in second 1/2, mark my words.

Define "turn around". We string a few easy wins together and finish 11-13th in the East? Is that what we are settling for after 7 years of BC's tenure? I know we have a young team, and I do see some bright spots. But BC always seems to screw it up. If Bargs continues to put up offensive numbers, and BC grows a set and trades him for something decent, then I will consider keeping him around. However I don't feel confident in that happening.

BC has proven time again that he is not shy on pulling the trigger for a trade, he has no problem trading Bargs if he still continues with his lackadaisical approach to the game. But for that we need Ed to prove he is consistent and the right time for best available return (Gasol will never happen, since it makes no sense for Raps).
"Turn around" = winning while showing a team identity of blue collar workers (we see flashes for now)

As I said, Raps had a brutal schedule and they are a young team & new coach, all great teams need time to create a chemistry. Be patient, while Raps will never be contenders (due to location), they will compete for a spot on second round in another year or two (best realistic hope).

This post full of fallacies is pushing apologizing for BC to its absurd extreme. It's hard to believe people like this still exist after nearly seven years of absolute crap.

Even if you speciously believe that BC cannot build a contender "because the Raps will never be contenders" (a laughable claim to make considering OKC's emergence as one of the best teams in the league/a potential NBA dynasty out of absolutely nothing in a small, midwestern market), it's not like your "best realistic hope" of the second round has come anywhere close to fruition during BC's time here (or will come anywhere close as long as this team's core stays the same). What are you holding on to here? Flashes of a team identity of blue collar workers (whatever that is supposed to mean) that lose season after season after season?

[Duffman100]

Define "turn around". We string a few easy wins together and finish 11-13th in the East? Is that what we are settling for after 7 years of BC's tenure? I know we have a young team, and I do see some bright spots. But BC always seems to screw it up. If Bargs continues to put up offensive numbers, and BC grows a set and trades him for something decent, then I will consider keeping him around. However I don't feel confident in that happening.

BC has proven time again that he is not shy on pulling the trigger for a trade, he has no problem trading Bargs if he still continues with his lackadaisical approach to the game. But for that we need Ed to prove he is consistent and the right time for best available return (Gasol will never happen, since it makes no sense for Raps).
"Turn around" = winning while showing a team identity of blue collar workers (we see flashes for now)

As I said, Raps had a brutal schedule and they are a young team & new coach, all great teams need time to create a chemistry. Be patient, while Raps will never be contenders (due to location), they will compete for a spot on second round in another year or two (best realistic hope).

What are you holding on to here?

This is what's truly baffling to me. What are people holding on to? The great memory of our first round exits?

[Randle McMurphy]

This is what's truly baffling to me. What are people holding on to? The great memory of our first round exits?

It's resistance to change. Perhaps even a fear of it and what the unknown will bring. That's the main thing that always holds back people from improving themselves (or in this case, improving the team they follow).

Good article, by the way. I've been waiting to see something like that in the media for a while.

[Randle McMurphy]

I brought up the "Save Our Chiefs" movement a few weeks back in this thread. They got about 25,000 fans to wear black to the game last Sunday to show their frustration and to call for the firing of their inept GM Scott Pioli. They've practically turned much of the local media against the administration over the last few months. While I don't think their movement and their protests will have a direct effect on any such move to fire him, they've made a serious impact in the consciousness of that fanbase and that team.

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/11/18/39 ... -with.html

What is preventing something resembling this from happening in Toronto? The Raptors are a far more inept franchise than the Chiefs (who actually made the playoffs two years ago) and arguably have a worse management team. Do the fans simply not care enough? Do they not care about winning to the level that those people do about their football team? Is it that basketball in Toronto is just seen like a casual time waster rather than a way of life like the NFL is in the midwestern United States? Do they more readily accept mediocrity/failure from their sports teams as a result? It certainly seems like it.

[Too Late Crew]

There is only one thing that causes change.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

As long as the tickets still sell they own't change. I'm not just talking about empty seats at the ACC . If those empty seats are simply season ticket holders who have not shown up or corporate suites that are paid for but not full. The TV dollars are still coming in.

I'm not saying nothing will ever change no matter how bad things get. What I'm saying is that they need to get bad enough that the bottom line is well and truly impacted. I don't have a lot of faith in the impact of letter writing campaigns or a bunch of fans buying seats to a game and then booing.

If we see game after game of empty seats in the ACC ..no one buying hot dogs or TShirts etc. MLSE would start to take notice.

What matters here is profit. Lose cheaply enough and you make money. Spend too much money to win and you don't make a profit. Look no one sets out to lose. I don't think MLSE has a desire to lose. But $$$ is what matters not wins. The two are essentially separate goals. They may coincide or they may not.

[ballercb4]

he should only be fired if there is someone better to replace him if not he should be put on a tighter leash where everything has to go through upper management...

[whoknows]

For you guys who want BC gone at all price, what makes you think that next GM (most likely Stefansky or worst) will do a better job???

I can see another Bobcock in the future - only type of GM who'd sign to lead a perennial bad team in what is considered one of the lowest 5 NBA markets - when it comes in attracting star players. Ask Steve Nash if you still have doubts... And don't give me the stupid response/fix, win and they will come, how can you win without great players here already???

At least Colangelo has respect among his GM peers and big NBA agents (lot more than he gets from the fantasy ball GM's ). BC is one of the very few twice EOY in the NBA, thus is not because his dad twists the other GM"s arm.
If BC is labeled as not being capable of turning this franchise around (with all his clout and his European connections) I think other serious potential good GM's will never even consider this job. So like it or not, the most likely next GM will be another Babcock type...

Careful what you wish for, it might happen...

[Duffman100]

For you guys who want BC gone at all price, what makes you think that next GM (most likely Stefansky or worst) will do a better job???

I can see another Bobcock in the future - only type of GM who'd sign to lead a perennial bad team in what is considered in the lowest 5 NBA markets when it comes in attracting star players. Ask Steve Nash if you still have doubts... And don't give me the stupid response/fix, win and they will come, how can you win without great players here already???

At least Colangelo has respect among his GM peers and big NBA agents (lot more than he gets from the fantasy ball GM's ). BC is one of the very few twice EOY in the NBA, thus is not because his dad twists the other GM"s arm.
If BC is labeled as not being capable of turning this franchise around (with all his clout and his European connections) I think other serious potential good GM's will never even consider this job. So like it or not, the most likely next GM will be another Babcock type...

Careful what you wish for, it might happen...

Most likely another Babcock type, maybe. But what if they're good/amazing?

We're going to stick with Colangelo, who can't get us out of the first round?

[Dr Positivity]

There's almost no way to do a worse job than BC has so far. I'll take my chances that the new guy is an improvement

[whoknows]

For you guys who want BC gone at all price, what makes you think that next GM (most likely Stefansky or worst) will do a better job???

I can see another Bobcock in the future - only type of GM who'd sign to lead a perennial bad team in what is considered in the lowest 5 NBA markets when it comes in attracting star players. Ask Steve Nash if you still have doubts... And don't give me the stupid response/fix, win and they will come, how can you win without great players here already???

At least Colangelo has respect among his GM peers and big NBA agents (lot more than he gets from the fantasy ball GM's ). BC is one of the very few twice EOY in the NBA, thus is not because his dad twists the other GM"s arm.
If BC is labeled as not being capable of turning this franchise around (with all his clout and his European connections) I think other serious potential good GM's will never even consider this job. So like it or not, the most likely next GM will be another Babcock type...

Careful what you wish for, it might happen...

Most likely another Babcock type, maybe. But what if they're good/amazing?

We're going to stick with Colangelo, who can't get us out of the first round?

As I said, although it is hard for a true fan to be patient, but look at this year team. It sure has some exciting players (TR, Val, KL, DD, ED) and it takes some time for them to gel under a new coach.
It is the most exciting team to see since VC days, I give them my full support for at least the end of this season.

[Alfred]

For you guys who want BC gone at all price, what makes you think that next GM (most likely Stefansky or worst) will do a better job???

What kind of logic is this? Maybe your next girlfriend will cheat on you, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't dump your current one if she's sleeping with all your friends.

[Too Late Crew]

For you guys who want BC gone at all price, what makes you think that next GM (most likely Stefansky or worst) will do a better job???
:

Yeah we might get some guy who comes in and leads us to 5 consecutive seasons out of the playoffs. Wouldn't that be awful..unbearable even?

Oh wait that's what we are on course for right now!

Honestly is there such thing as battered fan syndrome..like battered spouse syndrome?

[Duffman100]

For you guys who want BC gone at all price, what makes you think that next GM (most likely Stefansky or worst) will do a better job???

I can see another Bobcock in the future - only type of GM who'd sign to lead a perennial bad team in what is considered in the lowest 5 NBA markets when it comes in attracting star players. Ask Steve Nash if you still have doubts... And don't give me the stupid response/fix, win and they will come, how can you win without great players here already???

At least Colangelo has respect among his GM peers and big NBA agents (lot more than he gets from the fantasy ball GM's ). BC is one of the very few twice EOY in the NBA, thus is not because his dad twists the other GM"s arm.
If BC is labeled as not being capable of turning this franchise around (with all his clout and his European connections) I think other serious potential good GM's will never even consider this job. So like it or not, the most likely next GM will be another Babcock type...

Careful what you wish for, it might happen...

Most likely another Babcock type, maybe. But what if they're good/amazing?

We're going to stick with Colangelo, who can't get us out of the first round?

As I said, although it is hard for a true fan to be patient, but look at this year team. It sure has some exciting players (TR, Val, KL, DD, ED) and it takes some time for them to gel under a new coach.
It is the most exciting team to see since VC days, I give them my full support for at least the end of this season.

We've been in the lottery for 4 years and have one LEGIT prospect. That's JV. That's it.

[whoknows]

For you guys who want BC gone at all price, what makes you think that next GM (most likely Stefansky or worst) will do a better job???

What kind of logic is this? Maybe your next girlfriend will cheat on you, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't dump your current one if she's sleeping with all your friends.

Here is a logic contest that you might understand:

- Since you are impotent and your cheating GF is the best looking one you can get, should you dump her for an uglier version who will still sleep around but with any drunks/scum she can find (since she is too ugly for your friends to sleep with)?

[Scase]

For you guys who want BC gone at all price, what makes you think that next GM (most likely Stefansky or worst) will do a better job???

What kind of logic is this? Maybe your next girlfriend will cheat on you, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't dump your current one if she's sleeping with all your friends.

Here is a logic contest that you might understand:

- Since you are impotent and your cheating GF is the best looking one you can get, should you dump her for an uglier version who will still sleep around but with any drunks/scum she can find (since she is too ugly for your friends to sleep with)?

Go back to twitter Grange.