2012-2013 Offseason Thread

trwi7 · Post #141 » by **trwi7** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:04 pm

Yeah but he said he wouldn't be opposed to a three year deal for a 36 year old. That's not a short deal.

Turk Nowitzki · Post #142 » by **Turk Nowitzki** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:05 pm

It would be really nice to avoid that 3rd year if at all possible.

Post #143 » by **jr lucosa** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:11 pm

I would like Dempster at one or two years, if the 3rd year was a vesting option I could live with it.

crkone · Post #144 » by **crkone** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:15 pm

jr lucosa wrote:I would like Dempster at one or two years, if the 3rd year was a vesting option I could live with it.

Yep. A few young guys should be ready after this season, not to mention after 2 or three years. 12 million a season will take away from future deals we may need to make to extend guys or shore up weak positions.

Turk Nowitzki · Post #145 » by **Turk Nowitzki** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:18 pm

The Royals really **** us on this one by giving a 33 year old Jeremy Guthrie 3yrs/$25 million. Dempster/Dempter's agent don't seem out of line asking for 3 years and more total dollars than that.

trwi7 · Post #146 » by **trwi7** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:19 pm

I don't want any veteran pitchers taking away spots from our young guys.

Turk Nowitzki · Post #147 » by **Turk Nowitzki** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:23 pm

trwi7 wrote:I don't want any veteran pitchers taking away spots from our young guys.

Who are you penciling in for the rotation if we don't sign anyone else? That would leave us with Gallardo, Estrada, Peralta, Fiers, Rogers, Narveson, and Thornburg. You want to go into next year with 1 guy who has effectively pitched a full season at the major league level?

Turk Nowitzki · Post #148 » by **Turk Nowitzki** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:41 pm

One guy I hope we look at is Brandon McCarthy. It seems like he's going to be ok after his head injury, he's only 29, and his past two years have been pretty good. He's a bit injury prone and we'd probably have to pay extra to get him here but I'd take the risk.

LUKE23 · Post #149 » by **LUKE23** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:27 pm

I'm iffy on Dempster at 2 years. No way in hell I give him three.

I like Brandon McCarthy and Anibal Sanchez out of this FA class, if we feel compelled to sign a starter (which is likely) and we can't land Greinke. Dempster isn't a definite no but I'd like to look other places first and I wouldn't give him 3 years under any scenario. If we sign Lohse (Suppan the Sequel) whatsoever I break things.

LUKE23 · Post #150 » by **LUKE23** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:30 pm

trwi7 wrote:I don't want any veteran pitchers taking away spots from our young guys.

Same but we will sign someone. And I see us still having Rogers, Peralta, and Fiers in the rotation. My guess is Thornburg and Estrada in the pen.

crkone · Post #151 » by **crkone** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:32 pm

Also have Hand, Burgos, Nelson, Stinson, Hellweg who we can test out in ST. It would be wise to sign a vet or two for AAA, or one for long relief/spot start. They have a glut of young arms but few that can pitch full season if the Brewers stick to their plan of incrementally increasing innings.

BUCKnation · Post #152 » by **BUCKnation** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:07 pm

Id be fine with Dempster but only 2 years max.

Post #153 » by **ReasonablySober** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:19 pm

LUKE23 wrote:
trwi7 wrote:I don't want any veteran pitchers taking away spots from our young guys.

Same but we will sign someone. And I see us still having Rogers, Peralta, and Fiers in the rotation. My guess is Thornburg and Estrada in the pen.

Estrada was a 2.7 win player this season, 24th in the NL. That's better than 34 pitchers who had more innings in him. Bill James thinks he's in line for 180 innings and a 3.63 ERA, 3.42 FIP in '13. (FWIW, he's got Fiers at 172 IP, 3.40/3.35 in '13. If we get something like that for both Estrada and Fiers we'll have a nice rotation).

But anyway, Estrada was pretty damn good last year and I think he's a lock for the rotation.

In my ideal world we start Gallardo, Fiers, Gallardo, Peralta and Rogers and they all stay healthy and the offense is awesome and we win the division. But I don't think Dempster, or any other middle rotation innings eater is a terrible idea either. He's better than Randy Wolf. He's light year's better than Suppan. Three years isn't an eternity and maybe we only get two good seasons before dumping him. By then we'll have moved on from Weeks and Ramirez and possibly Hart and replaced them with cheaper versions. We almost certainly will have cheaper options in the bullpen.

LUKE23 · Post #154 » by **LUKE23** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:23 pm

There is no way Estrada is "a lock" to me, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him there. Regardless of his performance last year I'd rather go with Rogers or Peralta, both of whom have higher ceilings to me.

Dempster is probably #5 on my list, after Greinke, Sanchez, McCarthy, trade for Haren (don't care on the order after Zack). I wouldn't sign Lohse whatsoever. I wouldn't go three years on Dempster either. There has to be some cutoff where you say no. Dempster could easily regress at his age, especially how he ended last season.

Post #155 » by **ReasonablySober** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:34 pm

I'm legitimately shocked anyone wouldn't consider Estrada a lock. He was easily the best pitcher on the staff this season. If anything, he's our #1. That's a testament as to how we lack a traditional ace, but it's still true.

Do you guys realize that among pitchers who threw as many innings as Estrada, he had the 12th best FIP in the NL? The guys immediately below him were Matt Cain, Josh Johnson, Madison Bumgarner and Lance Lynn. He had the 9th best BB/9 ratio. He had the 3rd best K/9 ratio. He struck out a lot of dudes and wasn't walking many.

Guys, he's really good.

trwi7 · Post #156 » by **trwi7** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:35 pm

Haren is a free agent Luke.

Kerb Hohl · Post #157 » by **Kerb Hohl** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:37 pm

The Cubs, who are in a very frugal/intelligent mindset right now passed on basically being gifted Dan Haren. That may tell us something about how bad his back is. That said, I'd always consider taking a risk on him...I think the Cubs know what they are doing in a rebuild under Esptein (remember the long argument we had like 2 years ago) and if they pass on giving away Marmol who is now trash for what should be a good pitcher if healthy in Haren, I am a bit concerned about Haren's health.

LUKE23 · Post #158 » by **LUKE23** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:38 pm

DrugBust wrote:I'm legitimately shocked anyone wouldn't consider Estrada a lock. He was easily the best pitcher on the staff this season. If anything, he's our #1. That's a testament as to how we lack a traditional ace, but it's still true.

Him being slightly better than Yo in 70 or whatever less innings for one season doesn't make him our #1 moving forward. That's absolutely crazy. Estrada is a career 4.32 ERA/1.23 WHIP guy who has one season over 92 innings. I could see him in the rotation, but I'd have zero issue starting Rogers or Peralta over him (we're going to sign someone as well) and hope for better.

Post #159 » by **ReasonablySober** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:40 pm

LUKE23 wrote:I could see him in the rotation

LUKE23 · Post #160 » by **LUKE23** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:41 pm

DrugBust wrote:

I don't get what is so funny. I won't be shocked at all if he isn't. I won't be shocked if he is.

There is no way he's better than Yo because of one partial season though. Zero.