Race to the MVP.

[theokie]

"LeBron and Durant are only considered the two best players in the league because they have the best teammates in the league"

"The Heat and Thunder aren't the best teams in the league"


Does anyone else think that these arguments don't really work that well together?

[The_Dream]

Durant is an absolute monster of a scorer, no doubt. But I think some of us (including myself) are seriously downplaying LBJ's vastly superior passing ability.

[sisibilio]

1- LeBron
2- Melo
3- Duncan
4- Durant
5- Paul

[HurricaneKid]

I think its pretty obvious that James Harden is better than Kevin Martin. Thats why people say that Durant has less talent around him this year. The tweaks on with bench guys getting 10 minutes a game or so are pretty minimal to the impact of guys getting 30 minutes of game.

Thunder have also switched from a 10 man rotation to a 9 man rotation because of the bench having less talent than last year, at least apparently in Scott Brook's eyes.

Playing 9 rather than 10 doesn't mean you have less talent. It means you don't like your 10th guy.

When you have all young players you don't need to add players to be better. You just need them to continue to improve. And KD isn't the only one who is improving. Ibaka is shooting .595 which is a huge improvement over his .535 from last year. And despite getting significantly more minutes, he is a great deal more efficient with those minutes than he was last year, raising his PER to 20.6.

KD has 3 teammates with PERs above 18. Thats plenty o' talent.

[Tien]

Spoelstra should play LeBron 42 mins against Spurs to pad his stats and get a higher PER.

Coach Brooks would do it in a heart beat.

[starvinmarvin17]

Spoelstra should play LeBron 42 mins against Spurs to pad his stats and get a higher PER.

Coach Brooks would do it in a heart beat.

brons been there done that. he doesnt need to pad his stats anymore he already has 3 mvps. no its all about ring count

[bbms]

Using minutes played as an argument is laughable. If Durant wanted to stat pad, he could just dominate evert possession and have big raw numbers in PPG, but instead, he wants to shot 17 FGA/g. This doesn't scream stat padding to me. > 29% USG doesn't scream too. Extra minutes for a primary off the ball player isn't nearly as effective for stat padding than a ball dominant player like LeBron.

Durant never cared about stats. Yesterday he got in 4th with a 10 point lead and made it broader. It was not like it was already a blow out by the start of the 4th. On the other hand: "Check my $tat$".

[OptimusOne6]

The Heat are trying to conserve Lebron for the post-season.

Like most former champions, teams tend to coast after they have already won because they realize how pointless the regular season is especially when they've proven to be the champs. It is also because they probably plan on playing LBJ a lot in the PF and they want him to be well rested because as Lebron said, the PF position is much more taxing than the SF position.

Despite that though, Lebron has still been very dominant this regular season and he is one of the most consistent players of all-time. He could be better though but that's not on Lebron, that's on Miami.

Durant is the MVP and will be the MVP imo, but Lebron is still the best player in the league. It is pretty simple but Durant/OKC fans are trying to make it more complicated by arguing that Durant is the best player in the league over Lebron.

[theokie]

I think its pretty obvious that James Harden is better than Kevin Martin. Thats why people say that Durant has less talent around him this year. The tweaks on with bench guys getting 10 minutes a game or so are pretty minimal to the impact of guys getting 30 minutes of game.

Thunder have also switched from a 10 man rotation to a 9 man rotation because of the bench having less talent than last year, at least apparently in Scott Brook's eyes.

Playing 9 rather than 10 doesn't mean you have less talent. It means you don't like your 10th guy.

When you have all young players you don't need to add players to be better. You just need them to continue to improve. And KD isn't the only one who is improving. Ibaka is shooting .595 which is a huge improvement over his .535 from last year. And despite getting significantly more minutes, he is a great deal more efficient with those minutes than he was last year, raising his PER to 20.6.

KD has 3 teammates with PERs above 18. Thats plenty o' talent.

Correct, but when you liked 9 guys this year, but you liked 10 guys last year, that shows at least some dip in talent right? Albeit maybe not a lot.

KD also had 3 teammates with PERs above 18 last year, so I don't know why that argument makes the case that he has better teammates this year.

[Ozark]

I must have missed the part where Melo's defense improved enough to enter the conversation with KD and Lebron.

[og15]

I think its pretty obvious that James Harden is better than Kevin Martin. Thats why people say that Durant has less talent around him this year. The tweaks on with bench guys getting 10 minutes a game or so are pretty minimal to the impact of guys getting 30 minutes of game.

Thunder have also switched from a 10 man rotation to a 9 man rotation because of the bench having less talent than last year, at least apparently in Scott Brook's eyes.

Also don't get why you mentioned Aldrich, who never played last year, but failed to mention Cook who was a part of the regular rotation for a majority of the year.

Well, it was actually because I couldn't remember all the players on the Thunder bench at the time of my post, because I was trying to emphasize that they lost a guy that didn't play (Aldrich), so it is insignificant, and because Cook honestly sucked last year anyways (and Maynor isn't doing anything special this season either).

Maynor 13.5 MPG and Thabeet 12.5 MPG is a quarter a game, they obviously don't have as much impact as the higher minute guys, but they are playing 1/4 of the game. Also not playing Fisher 20 MPG even if it was only for 27 games or whatever it was is an addition

Also, Ibaka has seemingly gotten better, even though he's rebounding less (KD is rebounding more), so that's improved talent even though it is the same player. Improved Ibaka + Kevin Martin instead of James Harden + no Derek Fisher isn't really a drop in talent. Thabeet is also playing better than Nazr was.

OKC this year has 4 guys with 18+ PER, last season, they had 4 guys with 19+ PER. PER isn't telling us who is the better or worse players, but it is certainly telling us how much production these guys are giving. Lastly, while Harden is the better player, Martin is just as good of a fit next to Durant, and Durant's increased numbers in terms of APG would not be happening if Harden was still on the team because he would be handling the ball less.

[TheGarden]

"LeBron and Durant are only considered the two best players in the league because they have the best teammates in the league"

"The Heat and Thunder aren't the best teams in the league"


Does anyone else think that these arguments don't really work that well together?

The fact that Durant and LeBron have more talent the other top MVP candidates should be noted and have a "negative" impact on their resume similar to Kobe and Shaq in the early 2000's. Point was its unfair to other guys who have similar impacts on their respective teams but see double and triple teams since they dont have the luxuries of a Durant or LeBron. However basketball is a team sport while the MVP is an individual award. There are teams than can and will beat the Heat and Thunder. There are 6-8 teams that can win the title this year some have better chances than others but teams can beat them

[fallacy]

Spoelstra should play LeBron 42 mins against Spurs to pad his stats and get a higher PER.

Coach Brooks would do it in a heart beat.

Sadly they might have to do that just to get a win against the Spurs second team

[starvinmarvin17]

Miami is struggling because they are spending 3 quarters trying to get wade out of his funk and then rely on lebron to bail you out

[TwentyOne920]

I think you shouldn't ask LeBron to change a dollar. No, it's not because he can only give you three quarters; it's because he'll keep three and give you the fourth.

[Ozark]

Once again, calling all Melo fans to enlighten me about his defensive improvements, or forever hold your peace.

We now return to our regularly scheduled programming of KD v. Lebron.

[Protoss]

Really close race right now between LBJ and KD -- although KD probably has a slight edge due.

OKC has played 10 of their first 16 games at home, with 6 of their next 8 also being home games until they go on a road trip. That would mean 16 out of 24 games were home games. He needs to capitalize on this as much as possible.

The Heat are 11-3, with 7 road games and 7 home games played so far. Nine of their next 11 games will be in Miami (before their next road trip). Nets, Knicks, and Thunder are really the only teams that might beat them. Playing poorly, Bucks, Jazz, and Warriors might also take them down to the wire. If they play like they should, OKC may be the only team that has a good chance to beat them. They are on a 5 game winning streak and could extend it to 15-16 easily.

Either way, Christmas day game between OKC and MIA will be huge, especially if one significantly outplays the other. Easily the best game on the calendar for December and I can see either team winning.

Good MVP race thus far. Not too confident of KD keeping a PER of 28 for the entire season though.

Edit: Just looked at schedule again. If Miami beats OKC, they can easily go on a crazy winning streak. Their opponents look really bad for the two months. 80% of those games look like guaranteed wins.

[kamelion4291]

In 40 minutes of clutch time this season, LeBron has 33 points, 12 assists, 12 rebounds, is +48 and has a PER of 46.07. Pretty good.

[Hero]

LeBron had a great night once again. Really carried the heat and didn't even need to take a lot of shots to make them win. He is so good at getting everyone involved.

[Run DLC]

LeBron need to start playing a bit more selfish. I really do feel like he has the ability to score 30 points per game, but he's too passive at times. Sometimes he looks boring to watch because of that.