Is small-ball the way to win?

Kupchak9 · Post #1 » by **Kupchak9** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:34 pm

The premier small forwards in the league are all moving to the 4 position (Lebron, Melo, Durant) and with D'antoni's clear inability to utilize two low post big men effectively, would it be wise to move MWP to the 4 as well. The guy is an ideal PF for the Lakers, he stretches the floor, rebounds and plays tough D. With that considered, the Lakers can shop Pau for a SG or SF.

What do you think?

deNIEd · Post #2 » by **deNIEd** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:38 pm

Kupchak9 wrote:The premier small forwards in the league are all moving to the 4 position (Lebron, Melo, Durant) and with D'antoni's clear inability to utilize two low post big men effectively, would it be wise to move MWP to the 4 as well. The guy is an ideal PF for the Lakers, he stretches the floor, rebounds and plays tough D. With that considered, the Lakers can shop Pau for a SG or SF.

What do you think?

OKC and Miami are BEGGGGING for this to happen. Lakers will get raped if they attempt to go small-ball. I don't understand how it's not known as a fact, that the Laker's best asset is that you have two of the top bigmen in the game and you can beat up almost any time by simply being stronger, taller, and bigger. What's OKC and Miami's greatest weakness? The low-post.

If Lakers go small ball, you would be playing to OKC/MIA's greatest strengths...only Lakers are a lot slower, less athletic, and overall has a much worse shooting team compared to either OKC/Mia.

Post #3 » by **TyCobb** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:40 pm

Those teams don't really have a choice due to injuries or being over the cap. Having two big men is an advantage, not a fault.

Post #4 » by **Slava** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:50 pm

We could try that if we have a player like Batum at the 3. Ron is quick enough for a PF but I wouldn't totally consider his shooting to be consistent just yet.

Kupchak9 · Post #5 » by **Kupchak9** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:54 pm

While having two big men may be an advantage, its also our greatest weakness, two centers = horrible spacing, bad PnR and transition defense, at this rate LA shouldnt be worried about MIA or OKC it should be worried about getting pass even teams like DEN or even LAC.

Post #6 » by **TyCobb** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:57 pm

Then why did you talk about OKC, NYK, and MIA in OP?

Kupchak9 · Post #7 » by **Kupchak9** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:59 pm

TyCobb wrote:Then why did you talk about OKC, NYK, and MIA in OP?

Because I'm talking about their overall success in their new style of play rather than beating them head on with their strengths. The Lakers are failing to beat less successful teams with their current style of play and wouldn't even have a chance to face them in the end if thats the case.

Post #8 » by **TyCobb** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:02 pm

I think that has more to do with our lack of depth than not going small.

Michael Lucky · Post #9 » by **Michael Lucky** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:02 pm

I think i'll take my chances by playing two bigs after I saw how Memphis destroyed Miami earlier this season.

BEazy · Post #10 » by **BEazy** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:06 pm

No, if you look at OKC and Miami their glaring weakness is interior defense, rebounding, and shot blocking which the big man covers. Having big men is an advantage.

Post #11 » by **Slava** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:09 pm

Lakers-Texas wrote:No, if you look at OKC and Miami their glaring weakness is interior defense, rebounding, and shot blocking which the big man covers. Having big men is an advantage.

How did being big, old and slow help us last season against OKC?

Post #12 » by **Slava** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:10 pm

Michael Lucky wrote:I think i'll take my chances by playing two bigs after I saw how Memphis destroyed Miami earlier this season.

Memphis destroyed Miami because they made 19 3s in that game, not because they beat them in the paint. Also Wayne Ellington shot a ridiculously good game. Memphis are good but their issues/strengths are not the same as ours.

Kupchak9 · Post #13 » by **Kupchak9** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:23 pm

Lakers-Texas wrote:No, if you look at OKC and Miami their glaring weakness is interior defense, rebounding, and shot blocking which the big man covers. Having big men is an advantage.

Why focus on another team's weakness when we are really fighting ourselves?

LA and MIA are the only teams in the league with 4 All stars but LA is on the losing end of that spectrum. Why? Because we dont play to our own strengths, we turn Pau into something that hes not, a stretch 4, when hes clearly a center. We turn Dwight into Tyson Chandler and then when Nash comes back we're gonna turn him into Steve Kerr? Why? because we make our players downgrade themselves in favor of Kobe's strengths instead of having them maximize their abilities. Even Kobe said that when Nash comes back he "expects to get more touches" the guy doesn't care about feeding the bigs so why not shop Pau for players that can cut to the rim or knock down the open 3 so that Dwight can be free in the paint and we don't have to play hero ball every night.

Run-MKE 311 · Post #14 » by **Run-MKE 311** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:30 pm

I am really hesitant for the Lakers to make a huge shake up in their lineup.

I understand the system and how teams might react to the Lakers going forward, but it seems early to really make that type of committment.

MistyMountain20 · Post #15 » by **MistyMountain20** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:21 pm

deNIEd wrote:
Kupchak9 wrote:The premier small forwards in the league are all moving to the 4 position (Lebron, Melo, Durant) and with D'antoni's clear inability to utilize two low post big men effectively, would it be wise to move MWP to the 4 as well. The guy is an ideal PF for the Lakers, he stretches the floor, rebounds and plays tough D. With that considered, the Lakers can shop Pau for a SG or SF.

What do you think?

OKC and Miami are BEGGGGING for this to happen. Lakers will get raped if they attempt to go small-ball. I don't understand how it's not known as a fact, that the Laker's best asset is that you have two of the top bigmen in the game and you can beat up almost any time by simply being stronger, taller, and bigger. What's OKC and Miami's greatest weakness? The low-post.

If Lakers go small ball, you would be playing to OKC/MIA's greatest strengths...only Lakers are a lot slower, less athletic, and overall has a much worse shooting team compared to either OKC/Mia.

Their biggest weakness is the low post huh. Tell me, in the past two seasons who has given each respective team the most issues. There's a huge misnomer going around that both team's (more specifically the Heat) are vulnerable in the interior. While it may be a issue, depending on how team can and will implement an interior based point of attack, it has thus far shown to be the main issue. Again more specifically to the Heat, their greatest issues is spacing and ball movement.

Post #16 » by **Kilroy** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:40 pm

People need to stop talking about 'Small Ball' as if it's a universal style of play... It means different things to different teams... Miami's small ball is different than OKCs which is different than the Clips etc...

Small ball is a specific lineup a team can run that maximized matchup advantages that are absolutely unique to that team.

It's not an effective lineup for any team against all competition, and not all teams can run it.

Generally, no team thinks about running 'Small Ball' as a long term option... They all try to have their best players on the court for as many minutes as possible... Regardless of length.

The game of basketball is about matchups. Sometimes a smaller overall lineup has an advantage over a given team. But that's the exception rather than the rule.

Luxury · Post #17 » by **Luxury** » Sat Dec 1, 2012 1:26 am

To answer the title -- no, it's not the only way to win.

Offensively, we can't force a certain system 100% of the time. We have to mix it up once in a while. We need the ability to get on the break, play uptempo, play D'Antoni's system, then switch it up at will and slow down the pace, iso Dwight, iso Kobe, and run some post sets (inside/outside, give and go, triangle elements). Control the tempo to our favor -- whether its big or small ball.

I see what you're getting at though. Pau at PF was dumb last year, has been dumb this year, and will continue to be dumb as long as he's there. Especially since he's getting slower and slower.

Kobe and Mike are banking on Nash coming back. Well, Nash coming back only will solve 50% of our problems. The other 50% will come down to that starting PF position.

Fix the spacing offensively, and the footspeed defensively. That'll do the trick.

Doormatt · Post #18 » by **Doormatt** » Sat Dec 1, 2012 4:32 am

i think it would be interesting to see mwp play the 4 next to dwight but we'd need a legit shooter at the 3 who can also play defense against quick wings. we dont have anything close to resembling that so its not like we could even experiment. would also be nice to see more of jamison at the 4 with a legit wing.

Kupchak9 · Post #19 » by **Kupchak9** » Sat Dec 1, 2012 10:13 am

Danny Granger is our guy.

desertlakerfan · Post #20 » by **desertlakerfan** » Sat Dec 1, 2012 3:18 pm

Having 2 7 footers would be fine if...

A) Their games complement one another

and more importantly if you want to win

B) they both have the footspeed to get back on defense and the lateral quickness to stay in front of their man defensviely.

Unfortunately for us that's not the case, as Pau at this stage in his career is a much better center than he is power forward. We need a full time stretch 4 there as Jamison showed us last night to open up the low post for Dwight. We don't have to play "small ball", we just need a front court that fits and can keep up with the quicker more athletic front courts.