Kanter is bust ( no more hopes )

[reapaman]

Well I wouldn't go back and forth if I was either of you because you both made inaccurate statements its just its AK post seemed the most well thoughout I've seen in a while even though it wasn't entirely accurate. My standards are that low for this forum.

Look you can't compare their stats, its just too difficult to break down at this point. You have to go by the eye test which it looks like AK is doing but I only trust my eyes in these cases. You can't say Kanters a bust now because its too early. Kanter also didn't forget how to rebound or whatever you said earlier. You can't even say Jonas is better than Kanter now since Jonas could just be benefiting from the scouting reports not being out on him yet. Also never a good idea to compare a rookie to a sophmore even if their the same age.

On the other hand You can't say Jonas stats are inflated unless he has an insanely high usage rate which he doesn't. You also can't say that teams don't try against the raptors and they try with us after you saw thunder coasted for most of the game and still beat the crap out of us. You can not ignore that one guy plays against 1st team units and the other plays against 2nd teams, thats way too important. And Kanter still gets blocked way too often on post moves for anyone to say he's good at creating his own offense.

We need balance and good analysis, not a bunch of crap from both sides of the argument.

[Youthanasia]

oh lol ak47 i hate you now you're in realgm too, phhhfffff.

[DA_SCOUT]

I'm a big Kanter fan and hope he pans out for the Jazz, but I'm THRILLED that they passed on Jonas Valanciunas for him. AK47 is a brilliant poster for pointing out the truth and shutting up that homer freestyler.

I think to call Kanter a bust, is beyond stupid. He's not getting much time, and when he does he's shown flashes of a potential starting PF caliber player in the NBA.

And the Raptors do not su.ck, Let February come and you'll find out they aren't the worst team in the league...actually nowhere near it.

[erudite23]

Well I wouldn't go back and forth if I was either of you because you both made inaccurate statements its just its AK post seemed the most well thoughout I've seen in a while even though it wasn't entirely accurate. My standards are that low for this forum.

Look you can't compare their stats, its just too difficult to break down at this point. You have to go by the eye test which it looks like AK is doing but I only trust my eyes in these cases. You can't say Kanters a bust now because its too early. Kanter also didn't forget how to rebound or whatever you said earlier. You can't even say Jonas is better than Kanter now since Jonas could just be benefiting from the scouting reports not being out on him yet. Also never a good idea to compare a rookie to a sophmore even if their the same age.

On the other hand You can't say Jonas stats are inflated unless he has an insanely high usage rate which he doesn't. You also can't say that teams don't try against the raptors and they try with us after you saw thunder coasted for most of the game and still beat the crap out of us. You can not ignore that one guy plays against 1st team units and the other plays against 2nd teams, thats way too important. And Kanter still gets blocked way too often on post moves for anyone to say he's good at creating his own offense.

We need balance and good analysis, not a bunch of crap from both sides of the argument.

Just for the record, you are almost universally regarded as the worst poster on this forum. So if the forum standards are that low.....

Also, I find it hilarious that the minute someone starts spouting all the same points you've been pushing for so long:

- PER36 stats can't are irrelevant
- Backup players benefit greatly from playing against other backups
- Advanced statistics aren't worthwhile

and others, you hail their post as being well thought out and articulated. And to top it off, you turn immediately around and say, "You have to go by the eye test which it looks like AK is doing but I only trust my eyes in these cases."

Rofl.

So everyone goes by the eye test, and we have as many versions of reality as we have people in the conversation. That's why we have facts and data. That's why we have numbers. To prevent these types of debates from turning into far ranging circle jerks where the truth is whatever anyone wants it to be as long as you can get people to agree with you. In other words, the politics of real life. Which sports is supposed to be an escape from. That's why we have a scoreboard, because you can't argue over who won, the scores says definitively. And as much as you want to BS your way around this board, the realities of this sport are very simple, and they are largely (though not entirely) explained, quantified, and defined by the numbers available to measure them.

In this case, Enes Kanter's biggest issues are his lack of rebounding, and astronomically high turnover rate for someone who doesn't create a ton of offense. Interesting, given that neither were problems last year. Why the change? It's very simple. He's pressing and making a ton of stupid decisions, and he's lost his focus on the boards because he's trying too hard to be an offensive factor. And he doesn't have the benefit of extended playing time in which to work all this out. He has a 5 or 6 minute stint per half and a quick hook if he messes up too badly. He'll start to board again, and likely at an elite level as he's done everywhere else he's been. He'll figure out the angles on offense. He'll develop additional moves and he'll learn when and how to pass the ball. Right now, though, he's been in a rut. Last night's performance shows what he can do when he figures it out.

Again. Everything is fine. Kanter is on course. Nothing to talk about right now. Just keep watching.

[AK47MVP]

So how are we gonna compare their rebounding then ? just count the rebound numbers ? while Jonas playing around 25 minutes and Kanter 13 ? Nice logic bro you are not one sided at all
Wasnt that the point ? you said Jonas has better FG than Kanter, i guess its doesnt matter anymore when Kanter got better FG than Jonas, You sir are really ridiculous
AK47MVP and reapaman both known as Kanter haters before he played a single game in the NBA im doubtful anybody will take their opinion about Kanter serious

You can look at rebounding rate and other numbers. In general I agree that Kanter is better rebounder but so far JV is averaging more rebounds per game, simple. And until yesterday's game he had better FG%. Jonas was always around 60% FG back in Europe not unreal to expect that in NBA when he will figure things out better. So when at the end of the season JV has better FG then Kanter than who is ridiculous then? It is a given though that JV is longer, better shot blocker, passer and FT shooter - I hope you are not arguing that?
Again, I think Kanter could do quite well in NBA, I just do not see him as good fit in Utah. Unless Jazz will turn into more iso/one on one type team like 90% of other NBA teams.

[reapaman]

Just for the record, you are almost universally regarded as the worst poster on this forum. So if the forum standards are that low.....

Also, I find it hilarious that the minute someone starts spouting all the same points you've been pushing for so long:

- PER36 stats can't are irrelevant
- Backup players benefit greatly from playing against other backups
- Advanced statistics aren't worthwhile

and others, you hail their post as being well thought out and articulated. And to top it off, you turn immediately around and say, "You have to go by the eye test which it looks like AK is doing but I only trust my eyes in these cases."

Rofl.

So everyone goes by the eye test, and we have as many versions of reality as we have people in the conversation. That's why we have facts and data. That's why we have numbers. To prevent these types of debates from turning into far ranging circle jerks where the truth is whatever anyone wants it to be as long as you can get people to agree with you. In other words, the politics of real life. Which sports is supposed to be an escape from. That's why we have a scoreboard, because you can't argue over who won, the scores says definitively. And as much as you want to BS your way around this board, the realities of this sport are very simple, and they are largely (though not entirely) explained, quantified, and defined by the numbers available to measure them.

In this case, Enes Kanter's biggest issues are his lack of rebounding, and astronomically high turnover rate for someone who doesn't create a ton of offense. Interesting, given that neither were problems last year. Why the change? It's very simple. He's pressing and making a ton of stupid decisions, and he's lost his focus on the boards because he's trying too hard to be an offensive factor. And he doesn't have the benefit of extended playing time in which to work all this out. He has a 5 or 6 minute stint per half and a quick hook if he messes up too badly. He'll start to board again, and likely at an elite level as he's done everywhere else he's been. He'll figure out the angles on offense. He'll develop additional moves and he'll learn when and how to pass the ball. Right now, though, he's been in a rut. Last night's performance shows what he can do when he figures it out.

Again. Everything is fine. Kanter is on course. Nothing to talk about right now. Just keep watching.

If I listened to many people on this forum we would be far better team than we are, Millsap and/or Al would have been traded by now, Favors wouldn't been shooting 44% FG, Hayward would be beyond mike miller which he isn't or even manu 2.0 which he isn't plus he many predicted he would not start the year off shooting poorly again, Burks wouldn't have trade rumors floating about him now, Kanter wouldve picked up from where he left off in the pre-season like many of you said he would (also I remember people saying I was wrong in saying that Kiki shouldn't be working on post moves with kanter and despite your "logic" it turns out they didn't work on post moves ... go figure), Randy foye would be getting more pg minutes and millsap would be getting more sf minutes, Jonas would suck this year which he hasn't, Drummond would be looking like a bust right now which he hasn't, Dallas would be on tank mode w/o drik instead of barely below .500, ect ....

And I haven't even hit everything including people argueing me down about individual players on our team then saying what I said about them about a year later ala devin harris. Its crazy how homeristic and wrong you guys can be yet call me the worst poster here. Theres a clear worse poster on this forum by the way but I won't point em out for now.

Numbers are great if you know how to use them. You for example through every number in the book on me when I said Favors FG% will drop this year which while its still early, it has plummeted.

[AK47MVP]

Great response reapaman. But fans have excuse to be a bit homers.... fan comes from word fanatic;). Problem is they try to sell their biased fanatical opinion about their favorite players like fact. Unfortunately facts are sometimes sad but true.

[freestyler34]

You first said Jonas has better FG than Kanter your argument failed

Then you said hes better rebounder your argument failed again

Then you tried to argue Raptors not a bad team failed again

Whats left in the tank now AK ?

[AK47MVP]

You first said Jonas has better FG than Kanter your argument failed

Then you said hes better rebounder your argument failed again

Then you tried to argue Raptors not a bad team failed again

Whats left in the tank now AK ?

Dude are you stupid or what? Seriously...
When I posted Jonas had better FG. Kanter then goes on 11-8 shooting next day and passes him how did I failed? You want to bet JV will have better FG% at the end of the year?
Jonas has better rebounding average then Kanter. You can make a point that Kanter rebounds at better rate, but we comparing sophomore to rookie and rookie has 5.8reb per game while sophomore 3.8. One is playing vs starters other vs second units. Not sure I see any failure here.
Never I argued that Raptors are a bad team. You on the other hand said they are worst in the league which is blatant and ignorant failure.
Stop smoking that good stuff and look at things without bias.

[Mefisto]

ROFL, once a season fluke at garbage time, and all homers are out here. Just admit that you failed huge not drafting Jonas, and geting "made in turkey" bust .

[Soul Patch]

Lets all kiss and make up.