Jazz Trade proposal to Get Gasol Done

[blackham9258]

Posted on LAL PAGE: What do we think of this.

Millsap - Mo Williams - Raja Bell

for

Gasol

Millsap has a $8.6 cap hold, Mo has a $8.5 that equals $17.1, we then do you the favor of buying out Bell out of his $3.5 deal for $2.5, and you pick up the last $1M.

That way you ship out $19M and take on $18M saving $2M in total.

More importantly you get a 3pt shooting PG in MO who can play the 2 with Nash who is playoff and finals tested. Raja gives you a guy that knows the system and brings a toughness your team lacks right now. And Millsap is the perfect compliment to Howard, and he actually has added a 3 pt shot this year.

Depth, Depth, Depth to help at PG, SG, and PF!

Title EDITED by FJS

[DelaneyRudd]

Are you saying this is a done deal? If so please post a media link.

[russnumber3]

This is absurd with Mo included. What are we the Memphis Grizzlies, trying to hand the Lakers another ring??
It says nothing about why the Jazz would want this deal. I guess since you're getting it off the Lakers board its to be expected.
I am starting to like the sounds of a Millsap for Gasol deal though. There's just no way we roll with Earl and Tinsley as our only pg's. That would be the worst tandem in the league.

[blackham9258]

Reasons:

#1 Gasol will return to stardom. He is only 32, Duncan/Garnett at 36 just signed 3/36M deals this off season and Gasol will be the same type of player... which is a highly productive player for the next 6-7 years. Probably an All Star for 3 to 4 more years. (Right now he is a C being forced for the last two years to endure Kobe's chucking, 2 new coaches and systems that don't work for him, and playing out of position to Bynum and now Howard.)

#2 It prevents the big mistake which would be to give extensions to Jefferson or Millsap... which would be to give in to mediocrity.

#3 It might even cause the Jazz to finally move Favors to the PF and just let Jefferson come off the bench although personally if this trade went down I would like Jefferson to keep playing so that Favors extension is a little more in our favor. Also, I think a traded player exception is the most valuable asset we can get out of Jefferson because then we could go get a Danny Granger or some other piece at some point.

#4 Gasol will reestablish his value, and then if we don't want him long term, or he isn't willing to resign... we flip him for a low pick in the draft and a player.

Gasol gives us time, he gives our franchise legitimacy for other FA's to consider, he gives us an All Star and future hall of famer, he gives us either 6-7 years of great play while taking the pressure off Kanter/Favors, and he prevents us from making the mistake of resigning big Al to big $.

Lastly, if D Howard reups in LAL but takes time to do so we can re up Millsap on the cheap if we want, or Mo.

As far as MO, I also don't want to make the mistake of re upping a poor defending hybrid PG to his expected asking price of 3/$25M when he can't stay on the court because of his injury prone small body, and he can't stay in front of his man. I actually like the fact that if Mo goes we will see more of a Hayward/Burks/Foye guard/wing line because they can all bring the ball up.

Do what needs to be done, give up too much for once to get the All Star.... especially when resigning both Jazz players to long term deals would probably be a mistake. I don't want to be mediocre any more. I would rather be really young and have the draft to look forward to, and the growth of the young guys, or I want to really compete.... this middling junk is not interesting.

[HolyToledo12]

Good deal but hard to include Mo Williams in a deal when he is our best PG on a team with crap PGs. Makes sense for the Lakers bc Gasol not working out in that offense and saves a lot of money by getting Gasol off the books next year and the players LAL got all have expiring contracts. Millsap is really not the type of players the Lakers need. Marvin Williams as a stretch PF would be a better fit but the Jazz need his defense.

Good deal but I prefer to keep Mo Williams and do this trade instead.

Big Al/Millsap/Bell for Gasol/Blake/Clark

Allows a Favors/Gasol as starters with Kanter as main back up with Evans/Clark as 4th big. Blake is contract filler.

[blackham9258]

I don't mind giving up Mo because I would rather Burks, Foye, Marvin, and Hayward getting the perimeter shooting and I prefer the defense Watson brings. Mo has not impressed and I don't want to pay his asking price this off season.

I want one year rentals until we find a PG that is worth the money, or we find one in the draft.

I worry less about any weakness this year by losing MO than I do about making the mistake of signing him longer term.

Also, I don't want to take on the extra Blake money for next year $4M. Giving MO and Sap should make it good enough for LAL that they don't need or get further cap relief next year.

[QuantumMacgyver]

How about this?

Houston Rockets Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: -5.9 ppg, +1.7 rpg, and -0.3 apg.

Incoming Players
Robert Sacre
Al Jefferson

Outgoing Players
Daequan Cook
Patrick Patterson
Cole Aldrich
Royce White

Los Angeles Lakers Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: +10.0 ppg, -1.0 rpg, and -1.7 apg.

Incoming Players
Daequan Cook
Cole Aldrich
Patrick Patterson
Raja Bell

Outgoing Players
Pau Gasol
Darius Johnson-Odom
Robert Sacre

Utah Jazz Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: -4.1 ppg, -0.7 rpg, and +2.0 apg.

Incoming Players
Royce White
Pau Gasol
Darius Johnson-Odom

Outgoing Players
Al Jefferson
Raja Bell

[QuantumMacgyver]

Houston gets the low post scorer that they've long coveted. McHale has long been known to like Big Al's game, and Al says McHale is like a father figure to him. So, the odds of Big Al resigning are high.

Key losses: Patterson-Playing great now, but the tandem of Asik and Big Al would definitely swing the deal.
Royce White- Hasn't played for them, most likely won't.
Cook-Obsolete with Harden manning the SG slot.

Houston Line-up
Lin/Douglas
Harden/Delfino
Parsons/T. Jones
Big Al/Morris/Smith
Asik/Sacre/Donatas


Lakers get out from under Pau's contract while landing their stretch four in Patterson. L.A. also gets Raja and Cook to provide minutes off the bench behind Kobe.

Key Losses: Pau Gasol-Not playing well anyhow. Most likely going to be moved regardless, and with few teams possessing the cap flexibility to take on Pau's contract, this might surely be their best offer.


Lakers Lineup
Nash/Blake
Kobe/Meeks/Raja
MWP/Cook
Patterson/Jamison
Dwight/Hill/Aldrich


Utah gets a true Hall of Famer at the 4 spot which provides scoring, defense, passing and leadership/championship experience. Pau is only 32, there is no reason to believe he shouldn't return to form, and even if he doesn't, the Jazz are only committed to two years. Imagine what Favors and Kanter could learn from him. If Royce White ever gets a leg up on his Anxiety Disorder he could really be a nice player, but is essentially filler.

Key Losses: Al Jefferson- Great low post scorer and well liked by the guys, but horrendous D/passing.

Jazz Line-up
Mo/Watson/Tinsley
Foye/Burks
Hayward/Marvin/Carroll
Pau Gasol/Millsap/Evans
Favors/Kanter

[reapaman]

Like the new additons we got in the off-season, you guys don't understand what your asking for. Not only are you gambling that Gasol will return back to normal (I think his struggles are all mental and now due to kobe/lakers so its a very risky gamble), your taking away the one guy who have saved us from being ran out the gym many times this season and last. Weve seen Gasol as a #1 guy w/o kobe and its not much better than jefferson results wise. We are far away from a contender and taking away jefferson and adding gasol doesn't get us closer to that. You need more talent and unless you get gasol and can then trade jefferson for someone with equal value then your in trouble. Plus within the next two years while we still have alot of cap room, who's avaible thats gonna make a big difference?

Now if KOC were to take the gamble on gasol and keep jefferson thats a different story. Its risky, it probley will fail, has some red flags structural wise but it may be our most realistic chance to be a contender. Have Jefferson, Gasol and Favors all play 30 + mins and you can arrange them however you want but this gives us potentially the scariest big man lineup in the league. Then use kanter and what ever assets to get us another really good player in the backcourt (oreferably a pg) then fill out from there.

I think it can work but it is a gamble. All of that is contingent on a brand new revamped coaching staff that we shouldve gotten after sloan left instead of promoting within.

[StocktonShorts]

Not only are you gambling that Gasol will return back to normal (I think his struggles are all mental and now due to kobe/lakers so its a very risky gamble)

If his struggles are all mental I would think that would make it less risky than if they were physical. A change of scenery could be just what he needs. If he's wilting under the bright lights of LA then playing in quiet little Salt Lake City could be a good thing for him.

I'm of two minds on Gasol. If you figure that neither Millsap nor Jefferson is likely back next year, then securing a guy with his skill set who can start at C for you makes his $20M salary more tolerable. If he has a great year then you've got the inside track to re-sign him. He's been mostly injury free and projects to have a nice finish to his career.

Lots of "ifs" and best-case scenarios.

Worst-case scenario you still have all the cap-space you need in the summer of 2014.

All of that is contingent on a brand new revamped coaching staff that we shouldve gotten after sloan left instead of promoting within.

Can't agree more on this. Of course maybe we're both wrong but I have little confidence in the current coaching staff.

[Spottieottie]

I posted a succesful one that had Al Jeff going to the Hawks, Pau coming to the Jazz and Josh Smith/Raja Bell going to the Lakers.

Of course I have no idea if Hawks are interested in Al. Just thought it was fun.

[SoCalJazzFan]

The problem with some of the above proposals put teams with either no backups or double starters at the same position.

I posted something similar to this in the past, but in two weeks I think it works out and makes sense for all teams involved.

Utah:
Out- Milsap, Bell, Big Al
In- Pau, Sacre or Odom (Laker or Houston filler player), Hickson and Portland 1st round draft pick.

Lakers:
Out- Pau, Sacre or Odom (to match players in/out- could play with Houston players in this regard too)
In- Milsap, Bell, Houston 2nd Round picks and buyout Houston throw-in players (Aldrich, White, Smith)

Houston:
Out- Asik, Aldrich, White, Smith, second round picks.
In- Big Al

Portland:
Out- Hickson, future 1st pick
In- Asik.

Why each team does it:

Lakers- get rid of Pau's contract and the accompanying tax payments and a player that doesn't fit their system, and in return get a PF that fits into system (Sap) and depth at wing. Buyouts no big deal for Lakers, especially considering the savings from Pau.

Houston- Asik is not the interior scorer that they need. However, Big Al is. They also get to unload some unwanted contracts.

Portland- Needs an interior big man in a big way. They are starting 6'9" Hickson as center right now. Their draft pick is a couple of years away from being a starter. Asik solves this problem at a reasonable contract.

Utah- The hope is that Pau playing a more natural position will allow him to return to his productive days. Even if he doesn't, you'll get a true seven footer with much better passing abilities and much, much better defense. If Pau works out, Jazz can resign him for 2-3 years for much less than Al, similar to Duncan or Garnett as mentioned above. If he doesn't, then don't resign him and put your money towards your young players and free agents in 2014. Favors can battle Hickson for time at the PF position, and if Hickson goes to the bench (I think that he is starting caliber personally) you don't mind for $4M contract and he will probably dominate the opposing bench PF. Jazz are stacked at all positions, so whichever player from Lakers or Houston comes in to make deal work won't matter. Future 1st rd draft pick is cherry on top.

[DelaneyRudd]

I'd rather cut out the Lakers then.

[SoCalJazzFan]

Like the new additons we got in the off-season, you guys don't understand what your asking for. Not only are you gambling that Gasol will return back to normal (I think his struggles are all mental and now due to kobe/lakers so its a very risky gamble), your taking away the one guy who have saved us from being ran out the gym many times this season and last. Weve seen Gasol as a #1 guy w/o kobe and its not much better than jefferson results wise. We are far away from a contender and taking away jefferson and adding gasol doesn't get us closer to that. You need more talent and unless you get gasol and can then trade jefferson for someone with equal value then your in trouble. Plus within the next two years while we still have alot of cap room, who's avaible thats gonna make a big difference?

Now if KOC were to take the gamble on gasol and keep jefferson thats a different story. Its risky, it probley will fail, has some red flags structural wise but it may be our most realistic chance to be a contender. Have Jefferson, Gasol and Favors all play 30 + mins and you can arrange them however you want but this gives us potentially the scariest big man lineup in the league. Then use kanter and what ever assets to get us another really good player in the backcourt (oreferably a pg) then fill out from there.

I think it can work but it is a gamble. All of that is contingent on a brand new revamped coaching staff that we shouldve gotten after sloan left instead of promoting within.

You're proposing to do the very thing that the Lakers have failed at with Pau- playing him with a center that needs to be within 5-10 feet of the rim to score, pushing Pau out of his natural area to be effective.

You've got to take some risks to get the results. We can hope that the tandem of Favors and Al will net big results, but if it doesn't the Jazz are stuck as a middling team for years to come.

[SoCalJazzFan]

Not only are you gambling that Gasol will return back to normal (I think his struggles are all mental and now due to kobe/lakers so its a very risky gamble)

If his struggles are all mental I would think that would make it less risky than if they were physical. A change of scenery could be just what he needs. If he's wilting under the bright lights of LA then playing in quiet little Salt Lake City could be a good thing for him.

I'm of two minds on Gasol. If you figure that neither Millsap nor Jefferson is likely back next year, then securing a guy with his skill set who can start at C for you makes his $20M salary more tolerable. If he has a great year then you've got the inside track to re-sign him. He's been mostly injury free and projects to have a nice finish to his career.

Lots of "ifs" and best-case scenarios.

Worst-case scenario you still have all the cap-space you need in the summer of 2014.

All of that is contingent on a brand new revamped coaching staff that we shouldve gotten after sloan left instead of promoting within.

Can't agree more on this. Of course maybe we're both wrong but I have little confidence in the current coaching staff.

Instead of focusing on the $19M per year cost, think of it this way, the Jazz CANNOT resign both Al and Sap and have future plans for both KAnter and Favors. Al will command a $13M-$16M per year, 4 year deal. So, under my scenario above, you're trading $27M in existing contracts for $24M (saving $3M this year) and you're only paying between $3M- $6M more for Pau next year than you would have for Al, and probably less for either Pau or another free agent for the next 3 years thereafter.

Really, the more I think about this, the more I am in favor of the Jazz rolling the dice to do it.

[reapaman]

Like the new additons we got in the off-season, you guys don't understand what your asking for. Not only are you gambling that Gasol will return back to normal (I think his struggles are all mental and now due to kobe/lakers so its a very risky gamble), your taking away the one guy who have saved us from being ran out the gym many times this season and last. Weve seen Gasol as a #1 guy w/o kobe and its not much better than jefferson results wise. We are far away from a contender and taking away jefferson and adding gasol doesn't get us closer to that. You need more talent and unless you get gasol and can then trade jefferson for someone with equal value then your in trouble. Plus within the next two years while we still have alot of cap room, who's avaible thats gonna make a big difference?

Now if KOC were to take the gamble on gasol and keep jefferson thats a different story. Its risky, it probley will fail, has some red flags structural wise but it may be our most realistic chance to be a contender. Have Jefferson, Gasol and Favors all play 30 + mins and you can arrange them however you want but this gives us potentially the scariest big man lineup in the league. Then use kanter and what ever assets to get us another really good player in the backcourt (oreferably a pg) then fill out from there.

I think it can work but it is a gamble. All of that is contingent on a brand new revamped coaching staff that we shouldve gotten after sloan left instead of promoting within.

You're proposing to do the very thing that the Lakers have failed at with Pau- playing him with a center that needs to be within 5-10 feet of the rim to score, pushing Pau out of his natural area to be effective.

You've got to take some risks to get the results. We can hope that the tandem of Favors and Al will net big results, but if it doesn't the Jazz are stuck as a middling team for years to come.

Actually over 50% of Al's shots come beyond 10 ft. He's not like bynum/howard, the guy is highly versitile and won't clog up space for pau to operate. I know what your talking about but this is different since Al can effectively operate away from the paint and probley would do it more if we get pau since he doesn't seem to like contact much. Jefferson can play with Favors, Kanter or Millsap and everyones stay the same level of effectiveness since he's so adaptable to any situation, that is a rare quality. Now your question should be whether or not jefferson would pass to pau, now thats a different story. That is why getting a real pg would be very helpful to making this work. Plus with Favors you can mix and match which is something the Lakers can't do effectively with that group.

Yes I know you gotta take risk which is why I think you should take a chance on Pau-Jefferson-Favors. Just swamping pau for jefferson isn't good enough.

[reapaman]

Not only are you gambling that Gasol will return back to normal (I think his struggles are all mental and now due to kobe/lakers so its a very risky gamble)

If his struggles are all mental I would think that would make it less risky than if they were physical. A change of scenery could be just what he needs. If he's wilting under the bright lights of LA then playing in quiet little Salt Lake City could be a good thing for him.

I'm of two minds on Gasol. If you figure that neither Millsap nor Jefferson is likely back next year, then securing a guy with his skill set who can start at C for you makes his $20M salary more tolerable. If he has a great year then you've got the inside track to re-sign him. He's been mostly injury free and projects to have a nice finish to his career.

Lots of "ifs" and best-case scenarios.

Worst-case scenario you still have all the cap-space you need in the summer of 2014.

Naw I think mental is the toughest. Whether its lamar odom or vince young, once their gone mentally its really touch to get them back. We know the guy can peform on the big stage by his great 2010 season and playoff dominance. Something happened after that and it wasn't change in the offense since in 2011 he played strong in the regular season but by the time the playoffs came he just sucked. Their reports of tension in the locker room, a break up, ect... I don't know what happened but for most of the 10-11 season he looked like dominant gasol. If it was just him getting into better shape or whatever then thats no big deal look at tim duncan in the way he bounced backed after a couple years of what looked like decline.

Pau's decline tho looks different than tims because duncan's looked like old age even tho most of it turned on the be his playing shape. Pau looks fine physically and shape wise plus he doesn't rely much on athletism so being older sure aint the problem. Kobe know its mental thats why he told him to put his big boy pants on and get too work.

[SoCalJazzFan]

Actually over 50% of Al's shots come beyond 10 ft. He's not like bynum/howard, the guy is highly versitile and won't clog up space for pau to operate.

I don't see Al take very many shots from 10 feet and beyond. If he does, it is often due to a good defender not allowing him to get on the block, or pushing him off the block to a range of about 10 feet, where his shooting percentages go way down. Al is not a PF.

In fact, these stats show that Al takes over 60% of his shots within 9 feet. http://hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Al%20Jefferson You can see how Al's shooting percentage drops like a rock outside of 9 feet (his sweet spot is probably 4-7 feet around the left block).

Similarly, see Gasol's stats for the rim, within 9 feet, etc. and you will see a similar trend. http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Pau Gasol Gasol likes to shoot the ball close to the rim. They essentially play the same area of the court.

This Laker fan did some analysis and believes that Pau is better as a center than a PF. http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2012/06 ... re-center/

Comparing Al and Pau's stats reveals some things, some surprising, others not. PAu's assist rate is about 3.5/game whereas Al's is 1.8, which is not surprising. What surprised me is that Pau's effeciency is actually better than Al's within 9 feet of the rim- much better actually. Pau only needs about 13-14 shots per game to get his 18-19 pts. Al needs 16-17 shots to get that many points. I'd rather have those 4-5 shots go to the wings to open up the offense. Pau also draws fouls at a better rate than Al.

Yes, giving up Al is a big risk. If Pau were not to work out, you have all of your eggs in the FAvors/Kanter basket. But, you have to ask yourself if Al and Favors can get the Jazz where we want them to be. I am not so sure.

[babyjax13]

Why does no one realize that Gasol is done? We don't need to pay him $19 million. You mine as well keep Al or Millsap and sign someone else to fill the void or just hold on to the cap space. There is no use in wasting money on a player that we don't need.

[blackham9258]

Baby Jax, I would say why do you want to be mediocre for the next 5 years and that is exactly what we will be if we sign Millsap/Mo or Jefferson/Mo.

With Pau, he will go back almost immediately to 20/10 once in the Jazz offense. Look at what is happening with Varejao the last two weeks. He has been injured for 3 years, he comes back and has a few games with 15/15 and he is suddenly the hottest name on the market. What will Houston give up in the offseason to get Gasol. What about Washington/Toronto/Cleveland etc.

Look I could be wrong but I just believe that Gasol with 15 shots a game from the low post, (instead of 11 shots from the high post) Pau will return to his career averages of 52% on FG, and will go back to at least 18/10 if not 20/10 almost immediately. 2 weeks after the trade people will be saying, the Jazz got a steal.

In the off season FA will look more positively on Utah too. Pau has tons left in the tank... he is only 32. Look at his career stats... he has never been below 50% FG, then look at the mess LA has on its hands. Integrating a new big man who has in the span of 17 games had 2 coaches, a new PG who hasn't played, and everytime the team loses they blame Pau instead of Kobe.

What is wrong with the Lakers is perimeter defense which last I looked has more to do with Kobe and MWP being old and slow than anything Pau or Dwight can fix. When Nash gets back it will get better offensively but it won't get better defensively.

Pau doesn't fit D'Antoni's offense, he is the odd man out but once Pau gets into the Jazz offense which will feed him almost everytime down the floor and he is scoring 20 pg, dishing 5 assists, and grabbing 10 rebs and a few blocks he will be the hottest get on the market like Varejao is now. Then we have options:

Like keeping him to pair with Favors/Kanter. Trading him for picks and pieces etc. Gasol gives us options. Jefferson/Sap/Mo guarantee mediocrity middling nonsense.