Wall out 8 weeks with injury to patella

[Higga]

Another colossal fail by our trainers/medical staff.

[FAH1223]

Except the handled Kevin correctly and now he is fully back.
Singleton only missed like one game.
Crawford missed one game with an ankle and now he looks fully recovered.
Livingston missed one game and now is back
They sat Pargo out in preseason when he was injured and he returned
I think Okafor had a small injured and then returned.
Nene is out there.

They seem to be doing MRI almost immediately after injuries now.

Only player you can really question is Booker who seemed to be out there only at 70% and then had another injury that he speculates was caused by over compensation for a bad hammy. But Booker always seems to be injured.

They did well with Wall from what we can see. They caught the problem early and they shut him down. Lets see how he recovers before judging.

They mishandled:

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Latest:

Already sidelined for more than two months, Washington Wizards point guard John Wall still is not ready to practice, let alone play, and coach Randy Wittman said Monday night he does not know when his best player will return.

Asked Monday for an idea of when Wall, the No. 1 overall pick in the 2010 draft, will be available, Wittman replied, "I can't give you one. I don't know what you want me to say.

"I mean, right now, we're still progressing the way we are with his rehab. He's not been on the floor to practice. He's been on the floor to shoot some, but he's not progressed to the point that he can get out and practice. So obviously until that happens, I don't know what that timetable's going to be."

Sigh

Sounds like he's going to possibly miss the season to me. Time hasn't healed it and I think surgery will be the next course.

This sounds bad.

[B-easy]

I thought they said surgery is not necessary.

[AFM]

This is all just speculation. No one on here knows anything.

[Knighthonor]

Wizards pull a Gil/Stackhouse/Lewis on John Wall.

Was anybody surprised by this?

So who here ready to start a new "Trade John Wall" thread?

[closg00]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WYU-rmToA0&feature=youtu.be[/youtube][/quote]

Remember this video? They discuss the injury in a very pessimistic way.

[MJG]

This is all just speculation. No one on here knows anything.

So, anybody care to venture a guess as to what user names the Wizards medical staff post under?

[GhostsOfGil]

I find it funny that people are bashing the Wizards medical staff for keeping Wall out. I can still feel the aftermath from angry fans about Gilbert's early activation. Damned if they do, damned if they dont.

[dangermouse]

I find it funny that people are bashing the Wizards medical staff for keeping Wall out. I can still feel the aftermath from angry fans about Gilbert's early activation. Damned if they do, damned if they dont.

I tend to agree. I keep reading reports on Rose's injury progression, and it sounds like they are eagre to get him back asap, and I can't help but think "damn, they should take it easy, last thing they want is him to re-injure it."

And the last thing we want is a re-injured Wall.

[FAH1223]

I find it funny that people are bashing the Wizards medical staff for keeping Wall out. I can still feel the aftermath from angry fans about Gilbert's early activation. Damned if they do, damned if they dont.

Its not about keeping Wall out. Its about not being the first ones to diagnose his injury and not being forefront about how long he SHOULD have been out. Don't say 8 weeks unless you know for sure. Just say out indifinitely..

[jivelikenice]

I think they and JW are being overly cautious based on the record & Wall rushing back from injuries in his rookie season. Also by the sound of it, he wants to come back confident and at 100% in terms of his game and health. The frustration is in no timetable, but they also said Nene was out indefinitely and he returned to action 1 week later.

[Mickstix]

I find it funny that people are bashing the Wizards medical staff for keeping Wall out. I can still feel the aftermath from angry fans about Gilbert's early activation. Damned if they do, damned if they dont.

I dont think anyone is bashing them for not rushing him back. The problem is they miss a diagnosis, then throw out some overly optimistic return time.. Makes em' look like they dont know wtf their doing..

[dobrojim]

This is all just speculation. No one on here knows anything.

exactly

[Mickstix]

This is all just speculation. No one on here knows anything.

exactly

Well, we do know 2 things as fact.. They misdiagnosed his injury and grossly underestimated his return time.. Nothing to speculate there..

[jivelikenice]

This is all just speculation. No one on here knows anything.

exactly

Well, we do know 2 things as fact.. They misdiagnosed his injury and grossly underestimated his return time.. Nothing to speculate there..

Grossly underestimated is a huge stretch. The initial timetable at the end of September was 8-10 weeks. It still hasn't been a full 10 weeks. That's also how long he'd be out, not how long it would take him to work his way back into game shape and get through full practices. If we don't hear that he's returned to full practice within 10-14 days, then there's real concern. Until than with a 2-win team, no reason not to be cautious

[Dat2U]

As I much as I love to blame the medical staff, I can't see how folks are holding them responsible for Wall not being back by now. I really don't think they have much of a role at this point other than monitoring Wall's rehab.

It's the doctor in NY that Wall has visited at least twice that appears to be the key in this. After the medical staff missed or misdiagnosed the injury initially, his timeline appears based on what that doctor says.

Regarding the 8 week timeline that was given and the uncertainty surrounding that, once again I blame Ernie Grunfeld. As far as Grunfeld's history. He's always given the most optimistic timetable in terms of players returning from injury. I'm not sure why he does it. Maybe he wants his guys to have a date to shoot for. Maybe he's one of those old school GMs that believe players can and should play through pain and not make excuses. But often guys end up trying to come back too soon and end up re-aggravating the injury. That's been like a time honored tradition of Wizards basketball and injuries.

A bigger concern to me is the pressure being thrust upon Wall. It seems like EG and especially Ted Leonsis have been complicit in putting this entire franchise on Wall's back. They've built a bridge of excuses that leads right up to Wall's weakened right knee. If Wall doesn't come out of the gate guns a blazing (and honestly I don't expect he will... rust plus the roster is a terrible fit for him), I wonder what excuse we'll hear next. A Ted's Take column calling out Wall?

[Illuminaire]

Bumping Rockstradamus' epic and illuminating post. Really makes you wonder now, doesn't it?

Sad panda face.

It's tough to classify which category Wall's injury places him in, because the Wizards described the injury in a fashion that hasn't really been used in the past. Hopefully we get some additional insight on the details of the injury in the coming days for clarification. But for now, the Wizards described Wall's injury as in the "early stage of a stress injury to his left patella (kneecap)", and that it "could have turned into a stress fracture".

So here's what we can gather from the few quotes we've got from Grunfeld, Wittman, Wall, and a few others:
1. Wall has not suffered a stress fracture
2. Wall has not torn or partially torn his patellar tendon

So which categories from that article does that leave us with?
1. Broken and/or dislocated patella
2. Bruised patella
3. Injuries to the patellar tendon (strained patellar tendon or patellar tendinitis)

Thoughts on those three categories:

1. Broken and/or dislocated patella
We already established that he does not have a "stress fracture", which I take to mean as that he has not broken his patella (I'm no medical expert though, or even close, so that could be incorrect). The reason this section was included was because it is possible that Wall has a dislocated patella. However, I think this is pretty doubtful, because if we knew it was dislocated, our description of him having "the early stage of a stress injury" would be fairly misleading. If the "stress injury" was the dislocated patella, then what could possibly be the "early stage" of a dislocation? From my understanding of dislocated anythings, it's not a gradual progression, it just happens at an individual moment. Now, if the "stress injury" that Wall is in the "early stage" of is an actual stress fracture (which is probably a fair assumption, seeing as we also said this current injury could have turned into a stress fracture if we didn't catch it now), then that would mean that in order for Wall to fall under this 1st category from the article, that a dislocated patella is considered the early stage of a stress fracture. Again, I'm no doctor, but I don't believe that a dislocated patella eventually develops into a stress fracture. So I feel fairly confident that Wall's current injury does not fall under this first category.

2. Bruised patella
The article describes this injury as "a much milder form with no (severe) breaks". No severe breaks definitely fits the description we've been given. As far as it being a "much milder form", well, that's harder to confirm. However, I feel like given the information we have, it seems as though the Wizards are treating this injury as something that's likely a "much milder form" of a dislocated or broken patella. The "early stage of a stress injury" to the patella is probably a "much milder form" of a dislocated or broken patella. This category seems like a pretty good fit with what we've been told by the front office.

3. Injuries to the patellar tendon (strained patellar tendon or patellar tendinitis)
From what we've been told so far, there hasn't been any indication that this is an issue with the patellar tendon. We've been lead to believe that it could have lead to a stress fracture, which is different than a torn patellar tendon (although it's possible that they go hand in hand). While this category is different than torn or partially torn patellar tendons, it's of the same basic family of injuries. So unless we have been grossly mislead by the front office and Wall himself, then this is not his current injury. Note that in his rookie season, Wall missed 12 games early on in the year with what was initially reported as tendinitis in his right knee (current injury is left knee), and later clarified to be a bone bruise below the knee (and not tendinitis, apparently).


So unless the front office's statements on the nature of Wall's current injury were incredibly inaccurate, we can probably safely assume that he did not break or dislocate his patella, and he did not tear or partially tear his patellar tendon. Of the categories used in the article, the best match (and really the only one that fits at all) would be the bruised patella category.

According to this article (at least when it was published in December 2009), there have been only 2 NBA players in the last 10 years to suffer bruised patellas. A 22-year-old Quentin Richardson in 2003, and a 29-year-old Caron Butler in 2009 (bringing back some good memories yet?). Richardson missed about the last 2 weeks of the season, and returned the next season, playing 79 games at the same performance level (according to the basic stats) that he did before the injury. Butler bruised his patella at the end of October, and only missed 1 game as a result. The other few players who suffered this injury in the past missed anywhere between only 1 game to a month at the most. It definitely is not a severe injury, both in the short- and long-term.

So this is good news for Wall (and us), right? Well, maybe.

If Wall's current injury is, in fact, a bruised patella, then history bodes well for his speedy return and recovery, with no long-term effects. However, something doesn't add up with all of this. If bruised patellas in the past have caused players to miss anywhere from only 1 day to 1 whole month with no lasting harmful effects, why are the Wizards announcing that Wall will be sidelined for approximately 8 weeks? Doesn't setting his timetable for return at 2 months, when the most anyone suffering a similar injury had to sit out in the past was only 1 month (and frequently much less)?

You could take this discrepancy to mean any number of different things.

Are the Wizards being extra cautious with Wall from the get-go because he is our franchise player (similar to the Strasburg situation)? Do we know that he probably only needs to sit out 1 month at the most to recover from this injury, but we'd rather play it safe and let him sit out 2 months, just to make sure that he's truly 100% healed and ready to go? Perhaps we're scared after mismanaging so many injuries (specifically knee ones) in the last few years that we can't fathom doing it again, and would take extra precautions, above and beyond what is actually necessary, just to avoid a similar result.

Or perhaps we're simply setting the timetable for Wall's return at the absolute maximum amount, so that for once, one of our players will return from an injury BEFORE he was initially expected to. After numerous players in our franchise's recent history have been sidelined well beyond their initially expected return date, having a player come back early for once would be a nice breath of fresh air, and it could possibly make fans more pleased with our medical staff's performance.

Or maybe the Wizards haven't been entirely forthcoming about Wall's current injury. What if our front office left out some key details in their comments yesterday that would have lead us to believe that the injury falls into a different category from that article? What if we know that his injury is more severe than a simple bruised patella, but we don't want all hope to be lost for our team and fan base just yet? 8 weeks gives us plenty of time to hope for a miraculous recovery by Wall, simply by resting, and the more severe problem could go away. Or if it hasn't gotten any better after 8 weeks, then we know we tried all we could, but it's definitely going to require season-ending surgery. Delaying the inevitable. Making sure the team and the fans don't completely give up on the season before it even begins. Crossing our fingers and praying that somehow by simply resting, Wall is able to fully recover in 2 months time, and we can avoid surgery.


I think there's a good chance that there's some truth in all of those explanations. Only time will tell which is the real reason. But there's something strange going on here, and it's not fooling me.

If Wall's injury was as minor as they've described it so far, then there would be no need for us to announce that he's expected to miss approximately 8 weeks. Announcing that he, at the very least, won't participate in any preseason games would have given him an entire month of rest, and most likely he would have been ready to go for the start of the season. And if he somehow hadn't healed by then (making him the owner of the slowest healing bruised patella in the history of the NBA), then at the time we could have held him out for more regular season games as needed. I believe that we might just be being overly cautious, similar to the Strasburg situation, and arguably rightfully so, considering how important Wall is to this franchise's long-term success. But this is simply above and beyond what would be necessary, even if we're taking a cautious approach. This injury simply has to be more than a bruised patella. I'm sure you can diagnose the severity of bruised patellas, and maybe the one Caron Butler suffered a few years ago was very very minor, whereas the one Wall is currently suffering from is undoubtedly more severe. But even if that's the case, 2 months?! It's overkill. In my opinion, it's most likely an indication that we know this injury is much more severe than a simple bruised patella, but we don't want to come out and say it yet. We're delaying the inevitable.

I'm not a betting man, but after reading that article and thinking it all through, I think we are being mislead by the front office on this injury, and I sadly now expect Wall to end up having season-ending surgery sometime in December. Hopefully in a month or two I can come back to this thread and laugh about how paranoid and wrong I was, but I don't expect that to be the case.

Here we go again...

[GhostsOfGil]

A bigger concern to me is the pressure being thrust upon Wall. It seems like EG and especially Ted Leonsis have been complicit in putting this entire franchise on Wall's back. They've built a bridge of excuses that leads right up to Wall's weakened right knee. If Wall doesn't come out of the gate guns a blazing (and honestly I don't expect he will... rust plus the roster is a terrible fit for him), I wonder what excuse we'll hear next. A Ted's Take column calling out Wall?

Great post Dat... I think your spot on. At this point the expectations for Wall are insurmountable.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

As I much as I love to blame the medical staff, I can't see how folks are holding them responsible for Wall not being back by now. I really don't think they have much of a role at this point other than monitoring Wall's rehab.

It's the doctor in NY that Wall has visited at least twice that appears to be the key in this. After the medical staff missed or misdiagnosed the injury initially, his timeline appears based on what that doctor says.

Regarding the 8 week timeline that was given and the uncertainty surrounding that, once again I blame Ernie Grunfeld. As far as Grunfeld's history. He's always given the most optimistic timetable in terms of players returning from injury. I'm not sure why he does it. Maybe he wants his guys to have a date to shoot for. Maybe he's one of those old school GMs that believe players can and should play through pain and not make excuses. But often guys end up trying to come back too soon and end up re-aggravating the injury. That's been like a time honored tradition of Wizards basketball and injuries.

A bigger concern to me is the pressure being thrust upon Wall. It seems like EG and especially Ted Leonsis have been complicit in putting this entire franchise on Wall's back. They've built a bridge of excuses that leads right up to Wall's weakened right knee. If Wall doesn't come out of the gate guns a blazing (and honestly I don't expect he will... rust plus the roster is a terrible fit for him), I wonder what excuse we'll hear next. A Ted's Take column calling out Wall?

Spot on, Dat.

I am happy Wall isn't playing. It would have been nicer had Wall shut it down IMMEDIATELY and seen the NY doctor first. Hindsight is 20/20. To the credit of the medical staff now at least Wall's not being rushed back. That is way better than what happened with Gil. Gil shouldn't have been playing but they let him play. Not the case with Wall--he's sitting presumably until he is pain-free.

The bigger concern IMO is what Dat raised. All the pressure on Wall's return is due to Ted/EG making excuses. All the veterans on this roster should be able to hold it down.

Personally, I think the team is at times better having Price able to hit threes. At times, Livingston can be a smothering defender. They have skills (not overall talent or ability) that John Wall does not have.The player the Wizards miss the most when he is out is Nene. When that guy plays they are a vastly better team. Wall IMO will make them better most of the time--maybe almost all of the time now that they have clutch veterans.

Right now Wall should not have a burden placed on him. It is not his fault and the pressure should not be on him. Likewise, if/when he returns the expectation should not be so high that Wall is going to immediately turn things around.