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Trade Targets

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Re: Trade Targets 

Post#181 » by vincecarter4pres » Fri Dec 7, 2012 6:00 pm

ecuhus1981 wrote:I don't believe that Nene will be valued and traded as "cheaply" as the rest of you think. Lots of teams with a hole at C (not PF, C!) will offer more than Kris/Brooks/2 1sts, and I really don't want to get into a bidding war for a health/age/contract combo best described as "Amar'e Lite".

I just don't see this bidding war, nor any team giving up something crazy like a solid rotation big, a B rate wing prospect and 2 1sts for Nene, that's crazy talk.

And I don't get the Amar'e Lite moniker. I mean I get what you're trying to do, but I don't make the connect, they aren't anything alike really at all in style of play, on court passion, size, etc., nor injury concerns. And to use it to compare contracts, "Lite" isn't the word. Amar'e is on what's either the worst or second worst contract in the league. Nene's is just a normal elite role playing big contract. Yes it's a little bloated, but nothing crazy.

Amar'e is a guy with ticking time bomb knees and a bad back, plus the eye thing, who has missed a ton of time on actual good teams with major long term injury concerns. Nene is a guy who's been bothered by nagging less serious stuff on lotto teams and on the Nuggets in the wake of them looking to deal him and so not rush him back. Huge difference.

Nene is a guy who with the exception of an ACL injury and testicular cancer a period of around 5 to 7 years ago has been quite healthy, especially for a big man.

Last year and the beginning of this withstanding due to some other circumstances, his injury prone label is not just exaggerated, it's basically nonsense.

I still find it funny when people(not singling you out) bring up guys like Varejao(mainly him specifically) to knock Nene, saying he is injury prone and old and therefore Side Show is a better option, but seem to ignore blatant reality, that Varejao has LITERALLY been one of the most injury prone players in the league during his entire NBA tenure and is the same age as Nene almost to the day.

Consider the offers WAS may field over the next few months for Nene:

SAS - Jackson/Blair/1sts

San An isn't in the business of going deep into the tax. Blair is unraveling and isn't much better then Jason Maxiell, he's not much of an asset, nor a get.

They also have never been an organization to give away 1sts. In fact they usually trade solid rotation guys for picks such as the Hill for Kawhi deal.

DAL - Kaman/Jones/Beaubois/1sts

Dallas is never offering this. Ever.

HOU - Cook/Aldrich/Patterson/White/$7mil in capspace

I don't see Houston offering up raw cap for Nene now. That would be a fallback plan in late July if they don't land a star at the deadline, on draft night or in free agency in the coming offseason.

Also, I like Patterson, but I'm not sure that's a better return then Hump and Brooks if either or both are rerouted for expirings and a 1st or 2.

And if Patterson is as legit as his current numbers and growth why is Houston dealing him?

But look at his FTA's, rebounding, play style. He's undersized. I'm on the fence about him and I think Washington would be too if multiple decent offers are out there.
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Re: Trade Targets 

Post#182 » by NyCeEvO » Fri Dec 7, 2012 6:06 pm

Oden has had so many knee operations that I wouldn't expect that much out of him. In fact, I almost feel like you need to sign another backup to back him up in the likely event that he goes down again.

I think Oden is more of a low risk, low reward player.
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Re: Trade Targets 

Post#183 » by N Ireland Nets » Fri Dec 7, 2012 6:16 pm

NyCeEvO wrote:I think Oden is more of a low risk, low reward player.


Exactly, the perfect 3rd string center lol
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Re: Trade Targets 

Post#184 » by vincecarter4pres » Fri Dec 7, 2012 6:32 pm

Am I crazy for thinking if we're swinging for the fences, lets' do just that?

Hump
Tele
MarShon
2 or 3 1sts

for

Eric Gordon
Robin Lopez
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Re: Trade Targets 

Post#185 » by NyCeEvO » Fri Dec 7, 2012 7:04 pm

NOH already has the Brow and Anderson at PF and I don't think they're ready to give up on the EG just yet, especially with Austin Rivers playing garbage.

Also, I don't thin EG would want to come off the bench.
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Re: Trade Targets 

Post#186 » by DarkXaero » Fri Dec 7, 2012 7:32 pm

NyCeEvO wrote:NOH already has the Brow and Anderson at PF and I don't think they're ready to give up on the EG just yet, especially with Austin Rivers playing garbage.

Also, I don't thin EG would want to come off the bench.
joe johnson would come off the bench


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Re: Trade Targets 

Post#187 » by Rockice_24 » Fri Dec 7, 2012 8:02 pm

vincecarter4pres wrote:Am I crazy for thinking if we're swinging for the fences, lets' do just that?

Hump
Tele
MarShon
2 or 3 1sts

for

Eric Gordon
Robin Lopez



Not that it would ever happen but that seems like a risk worth taking. I mean Gordon can't stay healthy for anything but if he could that would be a steal. I'd probably just go small though with D-Will, Gordon, JJ, Wallace, Lopez. I can't see NO doing that though. They are hoping Brow and Gordon can be the foundation for their future.

Seems like every other team is going that way anyway. I don't think the Lopez brother frontcourt would work that great, if that was your plan.

Edit: I'm sure a few other guys will become available at the deadline so hopefully we can land a PF upgrade. Right now Nene seems like the best of the possibles but I'm still holding out hope for a J-Smooth deal. I just can't think of anything we have that ATL would want. It'd have to be a third team helping us out.
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Re: Trade Targets 

Post#188 » by Keith Van Horn » Fri Dec 7, 2012 8:25 pm

Front page of Real GM says Derrick Williams agent has asked the team about trade scenarios.... Hump for Williams?

Hump back in his home state of Minny, I'm sure he would love it even though how much he's professed his love for Brooklyn. And I think DKWill (Oh we would have to figure a new nickname for this guy b/c it wouldn't be just DWill lol) will love being able to start over again.
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Re: Trade Targets 

Post#189 » by NyCeEvO » Fri Dec 7, 2012 9:04 pm

DarkXaero wrote:
NyCeEvO wrote:NOH already has the Brow and Anderson at PF and I don't think they're ready to give up on the EG just yet, especially with Austin Rivers playing garbage.

Also, I don't thin EG would want to come off the bench.
joe johnson would come off the bench


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Hmm...now that would be interesting.

But a $20mil bench player is disgusting lol.
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Re: Trade Targets 

Post#190 » by NyCeEvO » Fri Dec 7, 2012 9:06 pm

macgyver893 wrote:Front page of Real GM says Derrick Williams agent has asked the team about trade scenarios.... Hump for Williams?

Hump back in his home state of Minny, I'm sure he would love it even though how much he's professed his love for Brooklyn. And I think DKWill (Oh we would have to figure a new nickname for this guy b/c it wouldn't be just DWill lol) will love being able to start over again.

Who would replace Hump in the starting lineup though?

If we could replace him with a defensive PF that still provides rebounding while getting DW in return, I'd be down for that.
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Re: Trade Targets 

Post#191 » by NyCeEvO » Fri Dec 7, 2012 9:24 pm

Per WT, Sixers are looking for a bench scorer.

Think we could get something good from them in exchange for Mr. Brooks?
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Re: Trade Targets 

Post#192 » by AntwanBoldin » Fri Dec 7, 2012 9:53 pm

Good stuff gang, some of the trade threads around the internet are really dumb and take nothing realistic into account.

The nene/4 year window is interesting but I actually like the idea of staggering the big contracts. So you always have a large expiring to use as a chip. As the new rules kick in all these teams will be looking to cut costs
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Re: Trade Targets 

Post#193 » by vincecarter4pres » Sat Dec 8, 2012 12:16 am

Rockice_24 wrote:
vincecarter4pres wrote:Am I crazy for thinking if we're swinging for the fences, lets' do just that?

Hump
Tele
MarShon
2 or 3 1sts

for

Eric Gordon
Robin Lopez



Not that it would ever happen but that seems like a risk worth taking. I mean Gordon can't stay healthy for anything but if he could that would be a steal. I'd probably just go small though with D-Will, Gordon, JJ, Wallace, Lopez. I can't see NO doing that though. They are hoping Brow and Gordon can be the foundation for their future.

Well that max deal combined with his health, combined with he never wanted to be there, I can see something like this being quite plausible, especially if Hump is rerouted for an expiring and another late 1st, maybe a 2014 1st.

They are going to suck for a couple more years anyway, so once they land their own other couple lotto picks, will be when they have a bunch of 1sts from this deal and they can make a move to add a really solid vet through trade to add to their young core.

I wouldn't go small though. I bring one of JJ or Gordon off the bench. Both can also run the point, so CJ would have his minutes cut back some, although JJ can easily be put in at the 3 as well.

Plan would be to keep both around 30 to 35mpg on a nightly basis though.

don't think the Lopez brother frontcourt would work that great, if that was your plan.

Actually, I'm not super high on Robin, I would start Evans and have Robin be mainly a backup center.

I would run them out together for a handful of minutes a night though at different points in the game, but mainly Robin would be out there with Blatche.

Edit: I'm sure a few other guys will become available at the deadline so hopefully we can land a PF upgrade. Right now Nene seems like the best of the possibles but I'm still holding out hope for a J-Smooth deal. I just can't think of anything we have that ATL would want. It'd have to be a third team helping us out.

Yeah that is probably ideal as well, but with Lopez and a bunch of high energy high level backup bigs around him we could be good and a strong wing attack is so important and Gordon is a guy with such high potential and already so much proven skill wise who would only be available because of his injuries and beef with his FO.
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Re: Trade Targets 

Post#194 » by vincecarter4pres » Sat Dec 8, 2012 12:28 am

NyCeEvO wrote:
DarkXaero wrote:
NyCeEvO wrote:NOH already has the Brow and Anderson at PF and I don't think they're ready to give up on the EG just yet, especially with Austin Rivers playing garbage.

Also, I don't thin EG would want to come off the bench.
joe johnson would come off the bench


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Hmm...now that would be interesting.

But a $20mil bench player is disgusting lol.

You say disgusting, I say illustrious!
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Re: Trade Targets 

Post#195 » by vincecarter4pres » Sat Dec 8, 2012 12:29 am

NyCeEvO wrote:Per WT, Sixers are looking for a bench scorer.

Think we could get something good from them in exchange for Mr. Brooks?

Well they don't have any trade-able picks.

How do we feel about Dorell Wright? I'm like, meh...
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Re: Trade Targets 

Post#196 » by AntwanBoldin » Sat Dec 8, 2012 2:56 am

David lee is an overpaid PF who can hit a 15 footer.......
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Re: Trade Targets 

Post#197 » by SpeedyG » Sat Dec 8, 2012 12:11 pm

So I know we've been focusing a lot on PFs, but how about SG/SF? Marshon is clearly in the dog house, and likely not going to get out of it anytime soon. Meanwhile, Gerald Green is struggling in Indiana without anyone to create for him.

Swap and bring Green back?
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Re: Trade Targets 

Post#198 » by Keith Van Horn » Sat Dec 8, 2012 3:05 pm

SpeedyG wrote:So I know we've been focusing a lot on PFs, but how about SG/SF? Marshon is clearly in the dog house, and likely not going to get out of it anytime soon. Meanwhile, Gerald Green is struggling in Indiana without anyone to create for him.

Swap and bring Green back?

Gerald squared, I loved it! I would be a fan
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Re: Trade Targets 

Post#199 » by NyCeEvO » Sat Dec 8, 2012 3:53 pm

AntwanBoldin wrote:David lee is an overpaid PF who can hit a 15 footer.......

Kris Humphries is an overpaid PF who can't hit a 15 footer.......

:P
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Re: Trade Targets 

Post#200 » by NyCeEvO » Sat Dec 8, 2012 6:33 pm

Checking defensive RAPM for players across the league for this season so far. I've listed some of the best defensive bigs along with players we may be interested in:

12-13 Defensive RAPM rankings:
KG: 5.70
D12: 4.98
Duncan: 4.76
M.Gasol: 4.68
J.Smith: 3.95
Asik: 3.90
T.Chandler: 3.70
Nene: 3.31
Noah: 3.27
Ibaka: 2.85
Biedrins: 2.13
Millsap: 2.12
P.Gasol: 1.85
Hump: 1.78
B.Griffin: 1.70
T.Young: 1.57
LMA: 0.72
B.Lopez: 0.18

Three Things:
1) Josh Smith's Off.RAPM+Def.RAPM total last year was tied for 5th overall in the NBA.

He was only behind:

LBJ- 9.5
D12- 8.8
CP3- 7.8
TD- 6.9
KLove- 6.2
J.Smith - 6.2

If there is any way that we can Josh Smith on this team and pair him with Wallace (who's got a RAPM of 3.05), we'd be rocking defensively.

2) D-Will
Guess what D-Will's overall score was last year?: 2.5

His last full year under Sloan? 5.0, which was 13th overall in the NBA. CP3 was only at 5.6 that year.

His total RAPM so far this year? 1.3

So yeah, if we ever get Utah D-Will, we get a beast. If we don't, we get a pretty good but overpaid PG.

3) Brook Lopez
I know some people may clamor about Brook's DEF RAPM and wonder how it's lower than Hump's.

Well, Brook is usually the last line of defense, so not only does he have to worry about playing his man right, he's got to worry about proper rotations to the basket, and defending the PnR.

Hump doesn't see as much activity as Lopez does simply because Cs are attacked by the opposition more than PFs.

The difference in defensive RAPM between Lopez and Hump is more due to Lopez getting exposed more frequently because he gets attacked more rather than Hump playing solid D. Hump has almost the exact same def. RAPM as Blake Griffin and a bit less than Pau Gasol, so his score is nothing to be proud of lol.

Getting back to Lopez.....

Now Lopez was and will never be one due to his lack of mobility, but the numbers do indicate that he's starting to make progress.

Def.RAPM
09-10: 0.5
10-11: 0.0
11-12: -0.5
12-13: 0.18 (this should continue to grow over the course of the year)

3 Takeaways
1) Getting Josh Smith or even Nene on this team will do big things for our defense.

2) D-Will is clearly not the D-Will of old. As suggested in the other thread, I feel that this is due in large part to the poor offensive system we run with Avery/D-Will at the helm. Even though D-Will didn't like Sloan's control over the offense, you can't deny that that system got the most of D-Will.

3) Lopez is improving on defense for sure. He's not doing great, but compared to last few seasons, it's MUCH better.

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