Heisman Winner?

TSE · Post #21 » by **TSE** » Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:21 am

^
But also there is only one guy in college football that even has more than 5 INTs this year, that's pretty crazy in general, and Manti has 5 as a LB. That's bonus points for him and his tough position this year, especially since you just named 4 QBs that are sorta in the mix, and Barner is hurt and it's not like he's Barry Sanders.

To me that makes Te'o the best choice right now. I'm giving it to him on defense since nobody else has really seized it or made a strong enough case against the rest of the pack that they compete with.

El Turco · Post #22 » by **El Turco** » Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:26 am

Te'o is a defensive player and only defensive player that won this was also returning kicks and had buncha sexy interceptions. even though it is not stated explicitly, heisman is an offensive award. wouldn't surprise me if he makes it to top 5, but he aint coming close to winning it in voting.

Mariota is going to be interesting choice down the road if he replicates today's performance against stout stanford or oregon st defenses.

TSE · Post #23 » by **TSE** » Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:29 pm

^
Oh I'm certainly not expecting him to win, if I had to put money on it I would say Klein is the easy favorite as of today. I'm only picking Te'o with my imaginary vote!

LAKESHOW · Post #24 » by **LAKESHOW** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:27 pm

MANTI TE'O

Post #25 » by **Jake0890** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:18 pm

I think Te'o should win just because of how much he means to the ND defense, None of the QBs this year have their ups and downs, and none of them really stand out. Out of them, the only QB who I believe has a real chance is Manziel because of his last performance.

Manziel will win, but I think Te'o really deserves it.

princeofpalace · Post #26 » by **princeofpalace** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:20 am

If Manziel wasn't a freshman, this wouldndt even be a discussion. Manti Teo is in no way as impactful as Johnny Football is, this award belongs to him easily.

Also, Manziels #'s blow Kleins and Braxton-Millers out of the water, its not close.

Post #27 » by **GYBE** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:05 pm

This is the worst year for the Heisman in a long time.

I'm a huge ND fan, but Te'o isn't the type of once in a decade defensive talent that should take the Heisman.

Conversely, the Aggies season really ended against LSU when Manziel had a 0/3 TD/INT ratio. He also wasn't that great against Florida. Everyone got wet after the Alabama game when he was hardly on the radar before that. And again, the Aggies season was already over for meaningful purposes.

Also, Manziel's numbers come from maybe the most QB friendly system in the world. Seriously, look at what Case Keenum did at Houston if you want numbers. Kevin Sumlin is the star.

Post #28 » by **Icness** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:48 pm

I think you're selling Manziel short because he did an awful lot with his legs in the games where he didn't throw particularly well. But I agree that Sumlin deserves a lot of the credit. He's my coach of the year, as they moved into the SEC with a new coach, new QB, lots of defensive injuries, and had their best season in 15 years.

My ballot, if I had one:
1. Manziel
2. Tavon Austin
3. Te'o
4. Marqise Lee
5. Geno Smith

Post #29 » by **GYBE** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:57 pm

Some things to think about with Manziel:

Against Texas A&M’s three weakest defensive opponents Manziel threw for 836 yards (10.5 yards per attempt), 9 touchdowns, and 2 interceptions while running for 359 yards (8.3 yards per carry) and 7 touchdowns. In Texas A&M’s three toughest games, however, he threw for 702 yards (at 6.0 yards per attempt), 2 touchdowns, and 3 interceptions, while running for 179 yards (at 3.4 yards per carry) and 1 touchdown.

Manziel played 4 good defenses this year (Bama, Florida, LSU, Ole Miss). He was only great in one of those games. He racked up his numbers primarily against the bottom of the SEC (really bad this year) and jokes like SMU, South Carolina State and Louisiana Tech (probably the worst defense in the country).

93% of his total touchdowns came against unranked teams! Yes, he had a great game against Alabama. But I don't think one game should decide the Heisman.

The Aggies beat exactly one team currently ranked. If we're going to dismiss team success, I'd rather give it to Marqise Lee. I hate the Trojans, but he was the most impressive player to me.

I'm also really puzzled at how Klein went from frontrunner to having no shot after Baylor. Manziel can have bad games multiple times but Klein is knocked out after one?

The reality is, whoever ESPN promotes will win. Once they push a narrative, the voters fall in line like sheep.

Post #30 » by **Jake0890** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:00 pm

GYBE wrote:I'm also really puzzled at how Klein went from frontrunner to having no shot after Baylor. Manziel can have bad games multiple times but Klein is knocked out after one?

The reality is, whoever ESPN promotes will win. Once they push a narrative, the voters fall in line like sheep.

As was said above, this is a very weak year for the Heisman. Prior to the Baylor game, Klein hadn't had a bad game. He was playing well, and wasn't spectacular, but neither was anyone else in the Heisman race. When he played Baylor, he was absolutely AWFUL against a pretty poor defense. His #1 team losing to a team under .500 also hurt his chances greatly. Anyways, I think Manziel has had greater performances and is a better QB than Klein, but that comes down to opinion.

Still Te'o's story combined with his ability to create the huge play at the exact time ND needs it is huge. I think he is the most outstanding player this year, regardless of him playing defense or not. If we had a standout offensive player that orchestrates his side of the ball so perfectly, this would be a different discussion. Te'o does just that for the Notre Dame defense.

princeofpalace · Post #31 » by **princeofpalace** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:57 am

^
Teo's story doesn't have any bearing on his Heisman candidacy, it goes to the most outstanding football player, not the one with the biggest sob story.

And, RCGIII won the heisman on a Baylor team that went 10-3 in a weak Big 12. A&M is clearly a much better team than that old Baylor team. So Im not quite sure how Jonny getting the Heisman is unwarranted.

And lets not diminish all that the Aggies have done, they outperformed anybodies expectations. A new Coach, a New QB, a New Conference and they still go 10-2 in the toughest football conference in the college and a top 10 ranked team. Texas A&M would be favored against Notre Dame in the MNC. I don't think comparing them to an unranked 5 loss USC team is fair.

Additionally, Manziel is not a system QB unless you think Sumlin intentionally draws up scramble plays and lets Jonny figure out the rest. Case Keenum rushed for 800 yards in his entire college career. Manziel is leading the SEC in rushing, as a QB! with 1180 in his freshman year. Jonny Manziel is no Case Keenum.

Hell, I can't wait to see what the Aggies look like next season, with a sophomore Johnny Manziel + a top 10 recruiting class especially if Moore and Joekel return.

I'll leave you with this, one of my favorite JFF plays all season

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO8miZNzyIQ[/youtube]

Post #32 » by **GYBE** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:02 pm

princeofpalace wrote:I don't think comparing them to an unranked 5 loss USC team is fair

The comparison is because both USC and the Aggies had nothing to play for in regards to the National Title. Klein was punished because his #1 team lost late in the season. If Notre Dame had lost to USC, Te'o would've been done. Manziel was never going to get punished for losing because the Aggies didn't matter. Their season ended when he couldn't stop turning the ball over against LSU. But that was awhile ago, so it doesn't matter as much to the Heisman voters for some reason.

Teo's story doesn't have any bearing on his Heisman candidacy, it goes to the most outstanding football player, not the one with the biggest sob story.

Classy.

"The Heisman Memorial Trophy annually recognizes the outstanding college football player whose performance best exhibits the pursuit of excellence with integrity."

Post #33 » by **studcrackers** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:57 pm

Oh cut that bullsh*t out. NCAA and integrity shouldn't be allowed in the same sentence

Post #34 » by **Jake0890** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:09 am

studcrackers wrote:Oh cut that bullsh*t out. NCAA and integrity shouldn't be allowed in the same sentence

Very true.

Still Te'o was a leader on the field and played exceptionally for ND to come up with big plays even if you discount his background.

Post #35 » by **Jake0890** » Fri Dec 7, 2012 12:21 am

Manziel seems to be assumed to win.

princeofpalace · Post #36 » by **princeofpalace** » Sun Dec 9, 2012 2:00 am

Johnny Manziel got the heisman, the right guy won. This victory will be tremendous to TAMU.

Post #37 » by **Jake0890** » Sun Dec 9, 2012 2:00 am

Manziel wins. The Heisman is now officially an offensive award. I can't believe Te'o didn't win.

princeofpalace · Post #38 » by **princeofpalace** » Sun Dec 9, 2012 2:11 am

Jake0890 wrote:Manziel wins. The Heisman is now officially an offensive award. I can't believe Te'o didn't win.

Be for real. Teo was not heisman worthy. Hes not even the best defensive player in the country

Post #39 » by **Jake0890** » Sun Dec 9, 2012 3:04 am

princeofpalace wrote:
Jake0890 wrote:Manziel wins. The Heisman is now officially an offensive award. I can't believe Te'o didn't win.

Be for real. Teo was not heisman worthy. Hes not even the best defensive player in the country

He was the quarterback of the ND defense. This was a weak year for the Heisman, and any other year he would not have even been considered. But being weak, I don't feel that Manziel was a more outstanding player than Te'o was. And he was most definitely the best defensively player.

princeofpalace · Post #40 » by **princeofpalace** » Sun Dec 9, 2012 3:11 pm

Jarvis Jones is easily a better defender than Teo, and the only reason this year is weak for the Heisman, is because aside from Johnny nobody has impressed.