OT: Pacquiao Vs. Marquez IV

[camillepd]

Now in Spanish:

Manny Pacquiao Gets Knocked Out vs Juan M. Marquez - Round 6 TKO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJBoLrYDWFE

[camillepd]

Clearer version of full fight:

Manny Pacquiao Vs Juan Manuel Marquez Full Fight

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL8UzGe84hQ

[camillepd]

The thing that came as a complete shock is the type of power Marquez packed last night. At the age of 39 no less. He hit Pacquiao with some brutal shots in the 1st two fights, but was never able to knock him down. Not once. So when Pacquiao tasted the canvas for the first time early on during the fight, it was pretty much an ominous sign.

Anyway, I sincerely hope Pac retires. He just lost to the better man last night. Plus he's been on the decline since the Mosley fight. No need to take any more punishment.

Agreed. I am honestly wondering if Marquez really is on something to be honest. He has hit Manny with that same shot a few times before and never came close to having that effect.

Aw, that's ridiculous. A declining Pacman gets cold cocked and his fans make excuses. Marquez on something? Puleeeze. The only thing Marquez was on last night was Pacquiao's ass!

[Joe Curry]

I thought the Bradley Fight was Closer then what it was , but still 7-5 Pacman . But I Just seen the Highlights & as someone who used to fight . Pacquaio is absoulty done , just like that done . If you fall down face first after geting hit flush in the face like that & on top of that ESPN said it took him 7 mins to get up . Done , the only reason he fights again is for the money & i'm not talking Mayweather .

Now I Hate Mayweather . However , this is what i always saw Floyd doing to Manny sans Knockdown that occured with Marquez . Not only he's that good defensivly , He's the bigger fighter as well . he would of beat him up .

Props to Marquez for finally officaly beating Pacquiao .

No Props to Mayweather-Bob Arum & Pacquiao for having the public fail to see the fight that we will probelly never see now or ever . Those 3 should be stripped from boxing in its entirity for the serade that they all partook in the past 5-7 years . Shameful you have shot boxing in the chest with a shotgun from close range .

It didn't take him 7 minutes to get up, it may have seemed like forever that he laid there but it wasnt even close to half that long.
As far as Pac being done, look he was up on most score cards and these two just have great battles. Every Ward/Gatti fight was a battle, and Marquez/Pac is the same, they're styles just complement each other so well. I do think this fight and the consecutive losses may have broken his will, and I have felt he has been a step slower in the past few fights so him retiring may not surprise me. But I can't count him out based solely on the knockdown. I'd like to see him fight again before I get to that conclusion.
However, I am starting to believe Freddie Roach is not getting the job done anymore. Maybe its the ailment, maybe he has nothing new to offer, or maybe he fails to teach his boxers defense but both Khan and Pac went down by getting careless. All credit to Marquez.
Agree with ur last 2 points, f Arum!!

I was Talking about How he was knocked out , you get knocked out on your back or side thats one thing . You get knocked out & fall face first like that your done . He could of been winning the fight 5 rounds to 0 at that point . You get knocked out like that it is almost always you are done as a fighter of consequcence .

[JoseChinga]

Pacquaio was never as great as people tried to make him out to be. He was a more athletically gifted version of Arturio Gatti. An action fighter with a lot of heart, but serious skill defeciency.

Pacquaio only become a big name because people were looking for someone who could dethrone Floyd and Pacquiao became the "Great Filipino Hope" You can't go around lunging in and out like a mad man, throwing punches on one leg and compete with the best fighters in the world.

Pacquaio got himself knocked out. He threw that bull jab where he jumped in while throwing it and jumped straight into the overhand right. Reminiscent of Hatton lunging face first into the check hook. Those are amaterur moves. He was able to get away with that with face first brawelrs like Margarito, Hatton, and zombie de la hoya. But ever time he got in there with a skilled counterpuncher like Marquez, he got a boxing lesson and needed the judges to bail him out. Well not tonight. He finally became the knockout waiting to happen that he was. You can't jump in an and out like a Maniac with skilled fighters. He woulod've been picked apart even worse by Floyd.

Tonight the rest of the world finally saw Pacquaio exposed for he really was by a much slower, but much more skilled 40year old mexican warrior. Pacquaio has always been a great. but non elite action fighter, and never had the skill set to be the best p4p fighter in the world.

[JoseChinga]

[j4remi]

Pac Boy got his azz knocked off... And rightly so, just based on his inability to execute the sweet science. He has NEVER BEEN A MATCH FOR MAYWEATHER. He is a sucker for a counter punch because of his poor defensive practices after throwing wild combinations, returns his hands to his waist, rather than to his chin to continue to protect himself.

ANYONE THAT DISCUSSED PAC BOY as a GREAT FIGHTER, missed atleast two things:
1. The first 3 fights with Marquez, all of which Pacquio was defeated by superior boxing and heart
2. The fundamental understanding of what makes a great boxer, vice just a great athlete...Pacquio WAS a great athlete

To say he isn't a great fighter would be an absolute slight to the list of great boxers he's defeated. Barrera, Morales, De La Hoya, Cotto, Mosley...That's an impressive run of fighters to defeat. Every boxer is flawed, Manny never matched up well with Marquez but anyone who saw his development under Roach can appreciate how much he improved his jab, counterpunching, right hand altogether, and his footwork throughout the years. The kid deserves his props.

[JoseChinga]

[Little Italia]

The thing that came as a complete shock is the type of power Marquez packed last night. At the age of 39 no less. He hit Pacquiao with some brutal shots in the 1st two fights, but was never able to knock him down. Not once. So when Pacquiao tasted the canvas for the first time early on during the fight, it was pretty much an ominous sign.

Anyway, I sincerely hope Pac retires. He just lost to the better man last night. Plus he's been on the decline since the Mosley fight. No need to take any more punishment.

Agreed. I am honestly wondering if Marquez really is on something to be honest. He has hit Manny with that same shot a few times before and never came close to having that effect.

Well Pacquiao did walk right into that punch.

[Thugger HBC]

Tell Manny planking is played out.

[Najeem27]

[quote="yaboynyp"]

Aww you mad?? Don’t get mad because I’m calling you out on your bs..lol.. The above quote is what we call a “fact", you should acquaint yourself with the meaning of said word.

As for me I like to watch Floyd fight, who wouldn’t? I also like to watch Lebron play basketball and Anderson Silva MMA some fools. I am a “fan” of none of those guys but can appreciate excellence...

Acquaint yourself with floyd nuts

Awww Poor lil baby got his feeling hurt .. I’m sowwwy but plenty of posters told you your full of chit not jus me little guy

me being one of them.....i am impartial for the most part....never really liked pac man, i do like mm, but just his fighting style i hate him as a person

but when aliamri said that mayweather wasn't a counter puncher he lost all credibility to me....i have been waiting for him to explain that comment he made about him not being a counter puncher[/quote]

Keep on waiting. You got no life waiting for replies on a forum.

[Butch718]

Agreed. I am honestly wondering if Marquez really is on something to be honest. He has hit Manny with that same shot a few times before and never came close to having that effect.

Aw, that's ridiculous. A declining Pacman gets cold cocked and his fans make excuses. Marquez on something? Puleeeze. The only thing Marquez was on last night was Pacquiao's ass!

Honestly, if it weren't for his physical trainer Angel Hernandez aka Memo Heredia, I don't think anyone would be questioning Marquez's integrity, or his newly acquired physique at the age of 39. Memo Heredia is a known PED dealer that got immunity from prosecution when he testified and ratted out his clients. Plus he's on record saying how easily it is to get PED's undetected. Since the boxing commission hasn't implemented a competent drug testing system, it's really easy for boxers to cheat these days. The ones that got caught recently(Berto, Lamont Peterson), volunteered and agreed to more stringent/strict drug testing protocols.

Here's the link to a German documentary on doping featuring Heredia. It basically shows how easy it is to acquire PED's over the counter in Mexico. It also shows him injecting EPO into his stomach. The guy has a shady history. There's a reason why people don't trust him or take him at his word. This is who Marquez is currently training with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 0GbnVdWaIU

He said he used family connections to pharmacies and labs in Mexico to help his business. For years, Mr. Heredia said, he helped his clients flout the rules and easily avoided detection. Substances like human growth hormone and the blood booster erythropoietin, or EPO, are still virtually impossible to detect, and “it is still easy to use testosterone” with fast-acting creams, he said.

“You combine all these things — boom! — you get amazing results,” Mr. Heredia said.

Source:http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/13/sports/13doping.html?ref=othersports&pagewanted=all

The thing that sucks is that there are so many great athletes out there that have been caught or have admitted to using PED's. Sometimes it's difficult to achieve truly great accomplishments in today's sporting world without a cloud of suspicion hanging over that athlete. Especially when it comes to boxing. If you look at this from an unbiased POV, could you imagine what kind of criticism and accusations Pacquiao would have faced if Heredia was his trainer? He would never have heard the end of it. Especially from the Mayweather clan and their supporters. But when people question Marquez, it's called sour grapes.

For the record, I think the knock out was legit. Manny was getting to aggressive and got completely careless trying to take out Marquez. You don't have to be on PED's in order to nail someone with the perfect punch.

[bigfnjoe96]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJcRtn2njd0[/youtube]

[ibraheim718]

The thing that came as a complete shock is the type of power Marquez packed last night. At the age of 39 no less. He hit Pacquiao with some brutal shots in the 1st two fights, but was never able to knock him down. Not once. So when Pacquiao tasted the canvas for the first time early on during the fight, it was pretty much an ominous sign.

Anyway, I sincerely hope Pac retires. He just lost to the better man last night. Plus he's been on the decline since the Mosley fight. No need to take any more punishment.

I wouldn't say he lost to the better fighter... he lost to the more opportunistic fighter. The fight was there for Manny to win if he had just showed a little bit of patience and not been hungry for the KO. He had already found a home for the straight left and he had already done enough damage to Marquez' nose and face that he could've just picked his spots.. got in and got out.. eventually Marquez would've been ripe to be taken out.. but in the later rounds. Pac had no business exchanging with Marquez late in the round he got Ko'd in when had already done sufficient amount of work to win that round. I think the Bradley fight affected what he did last night.. he wanted a KO and he didn't want to box.. even when he was hurt in the round JMM landed his first right he still wanted to exchange. Marquez was smart if his plan was to wait for the perfect time to throw his right knowing Manny was going to be "trying" to knock him out.. all he had to do was withstand the punishment, which he did.. his face was getting punished.. and wait for the perfect time to throw his right hand.

[Butch718]

You make some excellent points. I also think the amount of heat he took for winning the last fight with Marquez made him more careless in this fight. He was trying to end all doubt with a KO last night. He would have eventually had it but he got way too careless in there.

Also you gotta wonder how much Freddie has left to offer. He's had a really tough year with almost all his fighters losing. The guy is a terrific offensive coach, but leaves a lot to be desired on the tutelage of defensive posturing.

[ibraheim718]

You make some excellent points. I also think the amount of heat he took for winning the last fight with Marquez made him more careless in this fight. He was trying to end all doubt with a KO last night. He would have eventually had it but he got way too careless in there.

Also you gotta wonder how much Freddie has left to offer. He's had a really tough year with almost all his fighters losing. The guy is a terrific offensive coach, but leaves a lot to be desired on the tutelage of defensive posturing.

Butch you ever watch the Sal Sanchez V WIlfredo Gomez fight?

And what did you think about Cotto's game plan against Trout? I thought he had a poor game plan on how to attack Trout.

Back to the fight last night... the one thing about Mexican fighters is they age better than most other nationalities... it seems like it takes them longer to really slow down and of course we know that they all seem to have great chins and that never leaves them... I know that first hand from getting into a couple of fistacuffs with a few when I was younger.

I could see Manny retiring.. but fighters more than any other athlete always have a hard time retiring. I still think we end up seeing Mayweather V Pacquaio. It's hard for these great fights not to happen eventually. And I don't think if we see that fight that it's just going to be some one sided beatdown.. Mayweather himself has also aged and slowed down a little bit.

[camillepd]

Wrong! If Pac ever fought Floyd, it will be a very one sided fight with Floyd toying with Pac and then disposing of him. You guys just don't know boxing. Pac is a brawler, not a boxer and anytime he fights a smarter boxer with great skill, he'll have a lot of problems. Believe me, Floyd is way too smart a boxer for Manny. Floyd will knock Manny out, mark my words.

[JoseChinga]

If you guys knew anything about boxing, the shot that hit Pacquiao would of knocked out everyone from 140 to 154. When you walk into a punch like that, goodnite.

[ibraheim718]

If you guys knew anything about boxing, the shot that hit Pacquiao would of knocked out everyone from 140 to 154. When you walk into a punch like that, goodnite.

Nobody is standing after that shot.. he had so much leverage behind it. It would've knocked anyone out within that weight range.

[Stannis]

What a good fight. There will definitely be a part 5 to this on going battle. Marquez got that win he's been looking for since the longest against Pacquiao.

Am i the only one tired of these Mayweather worshipers on this forum? I also have a close friend who can't stop defending Mayweather like he's a god who can't do any wrong.

Both parties take it personal if you say something negative about "their guy". And majority of the times those "fans" hardly watch boxing outside Pac-man and Money Mayweather. Lot of Mayweather fans like to make ill-advised and nonsense statements like "Pac-man is no good at all".

EDIT: It's ashame too, because there are plenty of young boxers and just other good boxers in general out there who do not get the focus they deserve because the media cannot stop talking about Pac-man, Money Mayweather, Marquez, etc.

Btw 50 Cent was wearing a Knicks hat yesterday:



Real fan or bandwagoner?

Bandwagoner, in my opinion. He was seating and cheering courtside at Heat games last year.

Pacquaio was never as great as people tried to make him out to be. He was a more athletically gifted version of Arturio Gatti. An action fighter with a lot of heart, but serious skill defeciency.

Pacquaio only become a big name because people were looking for someone who could dethrone Floyd and Pacquiao became the "Great Filipino Hope" You can't go around lunging in and out like a mad man, throwing punches on one leg and compete with the best fighters in the world.

Pacquaio got himself knocked out. He threw that bull jab where he jumped in while throwing it and jumped straight into the overhand right. Reminiscent of Hatton lunging face first into the check hook. Those are amaterur moves. He was able to get away with that with face first brawelrs like Margarito, Hatton, and zombie de la hoya. But ever time he got in there with a skilled counterpuncher like Marquez, he got a boxing lesson and needed the judges to bail him out. Well not tonight. He finally became the knockout waiting to happen that he was. You can't jump in an and out like a Maniac with skilled fighters. He woulod've been picked apart even worse by Floyd.

Tonight the rest of the world finally saw Pacquaio exposed for he really was by a much slower, but much more skilled 40year old mexican warrior. Pacquaio has always been a great. but non elite action fighter, and never had the skill set to be the best p4p fighter in the world.

I will just like to add to this that Pacquaio never overrated himself. He just cared about his next fight. The people, ESPN, and HBO overrated him.