OJ Mayo 40 points 8 rebounds 3 assists against James Harden

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Re: OJ Mayo 40 points 8 rebounds 3 assists against James Ha 

Post#121 » by Shock Defeat » Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:43 am

monopolyman wrote:
Tave wrote:
monopolyman wrote:Harden plays a style of game that fans love, its exciting. But Mayo is a better floor spacer, more efficient in almost facet of his offensive skill set, is a better man on defender, and plays within the team's system (usually, sometimes he can jack up poor shots like Harden), and is a more complete player overall....right now. I could go on, but I am typing on a phone and don't really feel like getting into a detailed litany of Harden's faults where Mayo succeeds...its obvious to those not looking through fandom lens...at least for 20 games thus far


I don't understand, do the last 4 years mean nothing?


If we are talking about who is the more complete player RIGHT NOW, since taking on different roles with different teams, coaches, and systems....then yes. Everyone knows Mayo struggled under Hollins. He is a different player reaching his potential in Dallas, as is Harden to some degree. What either player did on either team is irrelevant at this point.

So if you want to search for excuses that support your arguement, then search the past 4 years all you 'd like...doesn't have anything to do with either player's current production/efficiency

Anyway, fans are going to believe.whatever

20 game sample >>> 4 years?

So OJ Mayo is the greatest 3 point shooter of all-time then, got it.
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Re: OJ Mayo 40 points 8 rebounds 3 assists against James Ha 

Post#122 » by Tave » Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:49 am

monopolyman wrote:
Tave wrote:
monopolyman wrote:Harden plays a style of game that fans love, its exciting. But Mayo is a better floor spacer, more efficient in almost facet of his offensive skill set, is a better man on defender, and plays within the team's system (usually, sometimes he can jack up poor shots like Harden), and is a more complete player overall....right now. I could go on, but I am typing on a phone and don't really feel like getting into a detailed litany of Harden's faults where Mayo succeeds...its obvious to those not looking through fandom lens...at least for 20 games thus far


I don't understand, do the last 4 years mean nothing?


If we are talking about who is the more complete player RIGHT NOW, since taking on different roles with different teams, coaches, and systemz...then yes. Everyone knows Mayo struggled under Hollins. He is a different player reaching his potential in Dallas, as is Harden to some degree. What either player did on either team is irrelevant at this point.

So if you want to search for excuses that support your arguement, then search the past 4 years all you 'd like...doesn't have anything to do.with either player's current production/efficiency


The game has its ups and downs. Mayo is playing very well right now, but you have to keep a sense of perspective about it. We're barely a month into the season. Of course their prior YEARS of play are relevant. Maybe Mayo will break out, but he's gotten hot before. We've seen enough of Harden play at a high level to know that he's an extremely efficient floor spacer that plays within the offense. Those are his strongest attributes.

This board has the attention span of a goldfish.
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Re: OJ Mayo 40 points 8 rebounds 3 assists against James Ha 

Post#123 » by monopolyman » Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:58 am

Bball loyalty

You are reaching four years in the past to find anything at all to support your argument. That tells you something right there.

Obviously Mayo's 3pt % will go down, thats a no brainer. But 20 games is a quarter of a season..Are.you telling me.that for a quarter of the season his production/efficiency is a fluke? Ignore the 3 point % and answer.the question.

You are also conveniently and childishly ignoring the different circumstances that have allowed them both to flourish. 20 games under different scenarios and a different set of variables effecting their game has alot of meaning in the NBA. If it was a fluke, teams wouldn't be doubling Mayo nearly every time he gets.the ball.

Right now, these 20 games have a whole lot more meaning than the 4 years in the past you are pointing to for the aforementioned reasons.

You can keep pointing in the past, but that simply means you have no real response to what is currently happening...understandably due to your postion.

good day sir
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Re: OJ Mayo 40 points 8 rebounds 3 assists against James Ha 

Post#124 » by monopolyman » Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:25 am

Tave...you do not get hot for a quarter of a season. What Mayo is doing is the result of his skill set meshing.with.the Dallas offense, not luck. You are seeing the player many thought he was coming out of college.

Mayo talked this summer about having the attitude of a star who had already made it when he hasn't proven jack. He then arrived in Dallas 2 1/2 months early to.work.with Carlisle. Mayo IS starting to break out now, you don't have to wait for it. Since Derek Fisher joined the team, he is averaging. 25/5/5 on 48% from the field and 40+% from the arc...just fyi.

We will see, but I would bet money these mumbers are more reflective.of the new Mayo rather than a fluke
But again...we will see
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Re: OJ Mayo 40 points 8 rebounds 3 assists against James Ha 

Post#125 » by lilojmayo » Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:26 am

all in all. This is a great start for OJ. Now he has to take his game to the next level to where performances like this aren't thread worthy

like when

Kevin Love
Carmelo Anthony
Kevin Durant
Derrick Rose
LeBron James
Dwyane Wade


go off. not newsworthy. With time with time
OJ Mayo , Michael Jordan , Allen Iverson.
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Re: OJ Mayo 40 points 8 rebounds 3 assists against James Ha 

Post#126 » by inquisitive » Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:38 am

Harden > Mayo
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Re: OJ Mayo 40 points 8 rebounds 3 assists against James Ha 

Post#127 » by Part-time Lover » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:35 am

Please do not derail threads in future.
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Re: OJ Mayo 40 points 8 rebounds 3 assists against James Ha 

Post#128 » by Shock Defeat » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:42 am

monopolyman wrote:Bball loyalty

You are reaching four years in the past to find anything at all to support your argument. That tells you something right there.

Obviously Mayo's 3pt % will go down, thats a no brainer. But 20 games is a quarter of a season..Are.you telling me.that for a quarter of the season his production/efficiency is a fluke? Ignore the 3 point % and answer.the question.

You are also conveniently and childishly ignoring the different circumstances that have allowed them both to flourish. 20 games under different scenarios and a different set of variables effecting their game has alot of meaning in the NBA. If it was a fluke, teams wouldn't be doubling Mayo nearly every time he gets.the ball.

Right now, these 20 games have a whole lot more meaning than the 4 years in the past you are pointing to for the aforementioned reasons.

You can keep pointing in the past, but that simply means you have no real response to what is currently happening...understandably due to your postion.

good day sir

That's right, OJ Mayo, when his three point shooting % returns to less than 40%, will start scoring 18 PPG instead of the 21 he is right now. That is on par with OJ Mayo from his rookie and second years. He hasn't shown a drastic level of improvement at all other than hot shooting this season.

He's always been a good scorer, but Harden is the better offensive player and I don't think anyone here other than you and mavs fans want to argue that. Harden can put the ball in the hole better, can draw fouls MUCH BETTER, can penetrate better by having a quicker first step, AND is a better distributor. Harden is a complete offensive player, Mayo isn't, that's a fact.

Teams are double/triple teaming James Harden all the time. Daring other Rockets to beat them now. Yet he's still pretty efficient because he gets to the line at a high rate. Don't act like OJ Mayo locked down Harden, the mavs were keying in on him. The Rockets on the hand were not paying as much attention on Mayo, they let Toney Douglas guard him ONE ON ONE, which I blame on poor coaching from Mchale.

Haven't seen anything that says OJ Mayo is a good defender in the NBA. I'd say he's average, he is better than Harden, but Harden gets 1 steal more than OJ Mayo. Harden seems to struggle with fatigue now that he's getting used to playing big minutes and being the man. I'd say it's more effort that he is a poor defender. If he can get his conditioning up (or McHale stops overplaying him) than he will be a better defender.

You've spent a lot of time basically arguing that OJ Mayo is better than Harden on two main points, more efficient scorer and better defender. You downplay the importance of playmaking ability and getting to the foul line/getting easy buckets. It's all fluff for the truth that OJ Mayo is a one-dimensional offensive player. If he has an off day from shooting he will be ineffective. Can't get to the line, can't get easy buckets, can't create for others.

Your entire argument HINGES on OJ Mayo maintaining his current shooting %s, which you yourself claimed will come down. IF OJ Mayo shoots like this for the rest of the season, this will be DEBATABLE, but if not, then it won't be. So you have a lot riding on whether or not OJ can continue his good shooting.

You also can't fault Harden for needing the ball to be effective because that's what the coaches tell him to do since our starting PG is on the doghouse apparently.

And should I mention that this is basically another "contract year" for Mayo, this is the PERFECT situation right now for him to make millions. No Dirk, he has the green light. He knows that teams will look at his performance right now and think he can be a #1 option. Many players perform drastically better in contract year than others. Will he be as motivated when he gets paid? 90% of nba players wouldn't be.
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Re: OJ Mayo 40 points 8 rebounds 3 assists against James Ha 

Post#129 » by spearsy23 » Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:42 pm

monopolyman wrote:
NYK_89 wrote:
monopolyman wrote:Harden plays a style of game that fans love, its exciting. But Mayo is a better floor spacer, more efficient in almost facet of his offensive skill set, is a better man on defender, and plays within the team's system (usually, sometimes he can jack up poor shots like Harden), and is a more complete player overall....right now. I could go on, but I am typing on a phone and don't really feel like getting into a detailed litany of Harden's faults where Mayo succeeds...its obvious to those not looking through fandom lens...at least for 20 games thus far

Harden is clearly better at getting to the FT line, is a significantly better passer etc...


etc...? I know he can get in the paint/line and and has supeiror court vision...but thats about it. He is good at breaking down the D...but as far as the aforementioned in my post, Mayo is supeiror in those facets.

If you are deciding between Mayo and Harden in the two man game with Dirk, you go with Mayo every time. If you want a volume shooter that can also make some plays in the paint...go with Harden

Mayo has exactly one skill that is better than harden and that's shooting. Defensively it's a wash. In literally every other category harden is better.
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
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Re: OJ Mayo 40 points 8 rebounds 3 assists against James Ha 

Post#130 » by RoyalWun » Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:42 pm

IMO, Mayo should be the front runner for MIP.

The only reason I say that over Harden is because Harden has always shown he's this good where we've seen damn near nothing from Mayo.
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Re: OJ Mayo 40 points 8 rebounds 3 assists against James Ha 

Post#131 » by rmfc » Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:54 pm

inquisitive wrote:Harden > Mayo
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Re: OJ Mayo 40 points 8 rebounds 3 assists against James Ha 

Post#132 » by SlobbaN » Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:35 pm

Prior to the season I started a thread Mayo vs. Harden and got laughed at. Now it's clear that Mayo is a better player and only after 20 games. By the end of the season Harden's contract will be the worst in the league.
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Re: OJ Mayo 40 points 8 rebounds 3 assists against James Ha 

Post#133 » by monopolyman » Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:21 pm

Bunch of Harden homers on this board who probably never played b ball past junior varsity.Same fans who.missed most of Dirk Nowitzki's career watching ESPN highlights of Tracy Mcgrady.

5-6 years ago people would have said Mcgrady > Dirk, now that would be a joke.

Mayo is a better ball handler (many thought he could play PG coming out of the draft and now he is playing aome point for the Mavs in short spurts), he is a better shooter thus a better floor spacer which makes his teammates better, a better man on defender (to those Harden homers saying its a wash, you clearly have never actually watched him play D), HE IS MORE EFFICIENT AND NOT A VOLUME SHOOTER ON A BAD TEAM, he doesn't disrupt the offense by having to have the ball in hands (look at Harden user rating) ...it takes him more possesions to get to the same amount of points, damn....i could go on

I get it, you guys like Harden for the same reasons you used to like Mcgrady, flash, style, constant penetration. That doesn't make him a more complete player that is more effective on the floo
We will be having this same argument when.Dirk returns and his stats are inflated, just as Jason Terry's were for 6.years after he left Atlanta.....and I'll tell you that you were just being one of the.millions of NBA fans who have their heads in the sand who might not even be able to name me 5 basic zone defenses
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Re: OJ Mayo 40 points 8 rebounds 3 assists against James Ha 

Post#134 » by monopolyman » Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:27 pm

typing on phone, sorry for errors ^....save this thread, nothing more to say until after the all star break
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Re: OJ Mayo 40 points 8 rebounds 3 assists against James Ha 

Post#135 » by Colossus » Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:48 pm

lilojmayo wrote:[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV6DCFAfuDo&feature=plcp[/youtube]




The highlights are up. What a bad man


After you gave up on your messiah, I don't think you're allowed to make threads for him anymore.
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Re: OJ Mayo 40 points 8 rebounds 3 assists against James Ha 

Post#136 » by spearsy23 » Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:48 pm

monopolyman wrote:Bunch of Harden homers on this board who probably never played b ball past junior varsity.Same fans who.missed most of Dirk Nowitzki's career watching ESPN highlights of Tracy Mcgrady.

A lot of us have probably played ball at levels higher than you. And of course we're the homers :roll:

5-6 years ago people would have said Mcgrady > Dirk, now that would be a joke.

The funny thing is, they would have been judging that off a small sample size where mcgrady played out of the world.

Mayo is a better ball handler (many thought he could play PG coming out of the draft and now he is playing aome point for the Mavs in short spurts),

He repeatedly proved he couldn't be a pg with memphis. Harden is the primary ball handler and is much better at creating for teammates and getting into the lane. He's simply a better ball handler.

he is a better shooter thus a better floor spacer which makes his teammates better,

This is the only real advantage, and of course Harden makes teammates better by creating for them.

a better man on defender (to those Harden homers saying its a wash, you clearly have never actually watched him play D),

If only man on was the only way defense is played. Harden has a better D rating.

HE IS MORE EFFICIENT AND NOT A VOLUME SHOOTER ON A BAD TEAM,

Harden's career ts% is 7% higher than Mayo's. This year as the primary option Harden's ts% is .579, higher than Mayo has ever put up until these last 20 games. Harden is not a volume shooter. Mayo's incredible .615 ts% is still lower than Harden's from last year. Oh and the Rockets are a bad team at 9-10 but the Mavs aren't at 10-10? I guess you gotta draw a line somewhere.

he doesn't disrupt the offense by having to have the ball in hands (look at Harden user rating)

Houston's offense IS give the ball to Harden, there's no flow to be disrupted. You think they're going to run the offense through Asik, Parsons or Lin?

...it takes him more possesions to get to the same amount of points, damn....i could go on

Except Harden scores 2 points more per game and creates two more assists. But do go on.

I get it, you guys like Harden for the same reasons you used to like Mcgrady, flash, style, constant penetration.

And we get it, Mayo having a breakout season 20 games in has you prematurely ejaculating all over his rookie card.

That doesn't make him a more complete player that is more effective on the floor

No, being better at every facet except shooting does that.

We will be having this same argument when.Dirk returns and his stats are inflated, just as Jason Terry's were for 6.years after he left Atlanta.....and I'll tell you that you were just being one of the.millions of NBA fans who have their heads in the sand who might not even be able to name me 5 basic zone defenses

And you are one of the millions of people who are looking for the next big thing, and too ready to anoint the new one.
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
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Re: OJ Mayo 40 points 8 rebounds 3 assists against James Ha 

Post#137 » by TheKingOfVa360 » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:01 pm

Mayo is the second best SG in basketball right now. His shooting stroke is a thing of marvel. One of the best pure shooters in the NBA. Harden is a chucker compared to Mayo and would be nothing without his high amount of free throw attempts.

Top 5 SG right now

1.Kobe
2.Mayo
3.Harden
4.Wade
5.Ellis/Jamal Crawford/Derozan
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Re: OJ Mayo 40 points 8 rebounds 3 assists against James Ha 

Post#138 » by lilojmayo » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:01 pm

Image
OJ Mayo , Michael Jordan , Allen Iverson.
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Re: OJ Mayo 40 points 8 rebounds 3 assists against James Ha 

Post#139 » by lilojmayo » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:33 pm

TheKingOfVa360 wrote:Mayo is the second best SG in basketball right now. His shooting stroke is a thing of marvel. One of the best pure shooters in the NBA. Harden is a chucker compared to Mayo and would be nothing without his high amount of free throw attempts.

Top 5 SG right now

1.Kobe
2.Mayo
3.Harden
4.Wade
5.Ellis/Jamal Crawford/Derozan



My list goes

1. Kobe
2. Mayo
3. Wade
4. Harden
5. whoever


Harden relies on the refs too much. It isn't even real contact. The move he does that gets him to the line so much is every bit as flagrant and cheap as the sweep move of a couple years back

It isn't even like he attacking the rim the like a freak show like LeBron, Iverson, or Jordan. The guy literally does that idk what its called move where he pushes the ball out in front of him, grabs it with to hands and then throws his arms all over the place and gets the whistle everytime.

its a mockery of the game, its no different then the sweep move of the mid-late 00's
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Re: OJ Mayo 40 points 8 rebounds 3 assists against James Ha 

Post#140 » by peja drobnjak » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:38 pm

i don't think twenty games at 80% are enough to drop wade off second place

for me it goes: kobe, wade, harden, mayo, and one of kmart, crawford, ellis, or ginobili, then joe johnson followed by derozan
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