Why is Foye playing so much?

[RaulLopez]

I personally am really happy with Foye. He is not great but he does his job well. I do believe Hayward will be a better player one day but right now, Foye fits better as a starter and is very good doing what the Jazz need him to do. I like how the Jazz are coming together as the season progresses. They seem to be going in the right direction. They are not a team that has been together for years like the Spurs. So it is taking time to get some chemistry and understand each other and roles.

Corbin has been doing a great job with the Jazz. It has been a learning curve for him to, being a new coach, but I thought he has done an awesome job. This is not like making a cake. You can not say, "add PG and center, mix and bake at 350 and have great team." Jazz are coming together and Foye is a big piece of the Jazz. He is a smart Vet that can shoot. His defense leaves a lot to be desired. But he is tough and I like that and he plays hard.

I like him. Sure he is not D Wade or Kobe. But he does what Corbin asks and plays hard.

[StocktonShorts]

[He] can shoot. His defense leaves a lot to be desired

I'll agree on this part. The rest seems like a bunch of "intangibles" nonsense.

Playing hard doesn't equal playing well. If he such a smart vet that would translate into playing better defense or creating more opportunities for teammates or SOMETHING, ANYTHING.

Basically he's a guy who can shoot. He's a below-replacement-level shooting guard and if he's your starting shooting guard it means you're either a bad team or your coach is an idiot.

[StocktonShorts]

*edit: It sure is nice when Jazz fans biggest complaint is Foye. Thousand times better than CJ/Howard/Collins of the past. I like him and I hope he is here to stay.

He's not as frustrating to watch as CJ was last year -- that's for sure; but then again, CJ wasn't starting ahead of Hayward and playing 26 minutes a night. I have no problem with Foye as a 15-minute a night guy but the Jazz will never be a serious threat in the playoffs if he's the starting shooting guard.

[erudite23]

I don't hate him or anything. He's just being badly misused. We should only play him in cases where shooting is at a premium. I think Gordon is going to shoot himself out of the early season slump like he has each of his first two seasons. And make whatever excuses you want, Gordon needs to learn how to play with Al. He's got to figure out how to assert himself and hold his own even when he's not the best player on the floor. Otherwise all he will ever be is your bench scorer, and we need more out of him than that.

[SoCalJazzFan]

I've mentioned it before, but I would like to see the following play significant minutes together:
1st Unit
Mo
Hayward
Marvin
Favors
Al

2nd Unit
Tinsley
Foye
Carroll (although his play is deserving of starter minutes)
Milsap
Kanter

Mo and Foye are pretty redundant, in my opinion, as far as the ability to pull up and shoot. Hayward should give the starters better defense and fast break opportunities and is a better point forward when trying to get the ball to Al off the wing. Favors covers for Al's lack of defense, and Marvin gives a balance of outside shooting and defense.

Tinsley's great at getting the ball to the open man, and Sap and Foye could benefit from that. Kanter would be the inside presence that makes up for Sap's lack of size.

The above being said, when Hayward is in one of his off shooting nights (too many this year) or when the Jazz need some instant offense or a 3pt play, sub Foye in for Hayward.

I could be totally wrong on this, but it makes a lot of sense to me, and the stats mentioned above with respect to Foye support it.

[StocktonShorts]

Mo and Foye are pretty redundant, in my opinion, as far as the ability to pull up and shoot. Hayward should give the starters better defense and fast break opportunities and is a better point forward when trying to get the ball to Al off the wing. Favors covers for Al's lack of defense, and Marvin gives a balance of outside shooting and defense.

Tinsley's great at getting the ball to the open man, and Sap and Foye could benefit from that. Kanter would be the inside presence that makes up for Sap's lack of size.

The above being said, when Hayward is in one of his off shooting nights (too many this year) or when the Jazz need some instant offense or a 3pt play, sub Foye in for Hayward.

I could be totally wrong on this, but it makes a lot of sense to me, and the stats mentioned above with respect to Foye support it.

I agree with practically everything you've said.

And make whatever excuses you want, Gordon needs to learn how to play with Al. He's got to figure out how to assert himself and hold his own even when he's not the best player on the floor. Otherwise all he will ever be is your bench scorer, and we need more out of him than that.

One thing I've noticed is that our guards don't run to open spots on the perimeter when Al has the ball. He often has NO one to pass to despite being double- or triple-teamed. I don't know if the coaches have told the players to stay off Al's side of the floor or what, but they usually just stand in place on the opposite side of the floor and watch. If he actually had a player on the perimeter to pass to and made the pass when he's doubled the Jazz would be in a lot better shape.

[Montanajazz]

Hayward is abetter defender then Foye. He actually made Kobe work for his shots. He should start.
Foye should be on second team splitting time with Burks.

[Montanajazz]

Hayward is abetter defender then Foye. He actually made Kobe work for his shots. He should start.
Foye should be on second team splitting time with Burks.

[reapaman]

No offense but some fans need to get out of fantasy land. No one in their right mind could have thought when foye came to this team that a) he was gonna play any less than 25 mins cutting into haywards mins, b) he was gonna much if any at pg, c) that burks wouldn't get virtually knocked out the line up. Almost any coach would be doing what corbins doing and most fans will complain about it which is why every time you look up a different fan wants their team's coach fired.

For you that don't like it remember many of you approved of KOC moves and liked the addition of foye. Corbin is just doing what KOC and the front off wants him to do. KOC didn't bring foye here to play 15 mins, thats crazy to think that. You liked the move, just suck it up and live with it.

[StocktonShorts]

Corbin is just doing what KOC and the front off wants him to do. KOC didn't bring foye here to play 15 mins, thats crazy to think that. You liked the move, just suck it up and live with it.

Maybe I'm being naive when I take KOC for his word that "managers manage, coaches coach and players play." I've never felt like he privately dictated who had to play.

After all, he's had his hand in bringing every player currently on the roster to the Jazz, so why would he prefer that Foye play over any of his other acquisitions?

[reapaman]

Corbin is just doing what KOC and the front off wants him to do. KOC didn't bring foye here to play 15 mins, thats crazy to think that. You liked the move, just suck it up and live with it.

Maybe I'm being naive when I take KOC for his word that "managers manage, coaches coach and players play." I've never felt like he privately dictated who had to play.

After all, he's had his hand in bringing every player currently on the roster to the Jazz, so why would he prefer that Foye play over any of his other acquisitions?

Well not dictate but influence. KOC made it clear he wants to win now so as a coach if you want to keep your job then you try to win now. KOC brought in a guy who has been playing around 25 mins for most of his career and is a guy who oviously he feels can help you win more now sense if he didn't feel that way he wouldve gotten someone younger with more potential. If KOC felt burks was good enough or that hayward should occupy 35ish mins then why bring a guy who's expecting around the mins he's been getting his whole career. He knew foye was gonna play good enough to push hayward for mins, so why bring him in if you think otherwise. As a coach you have to justify to the FO (not fans because they always complain) the mins you give or don't give to every player. KOC brought this guy in for a reason so unless theres a clear reason you can give to the FO on why this guy is not playing around the mins he's expecting (which the way he's play you can't) then you gotta play him 25 ish mins a game. Its usually pretty clear when a FO doesn't like what a coach is doing and I don't see any signs that they are unhappy with Corbin. You may feel they should be unhappy with him but thats not the case other vinny del negro wouldve been fired a long time ago if fans opinion mattered that much.

That logic may or may not make sense to you but thats how I was able to predict foye was gonna play 25 ish mins, cut into haywards mins (his will probley start going up in the 2nd half of the season tho), Foye or burks would rarely if ever play pg, burks would be virtually pushed out for minutes, ect ... This is vintage KOC and he's one of the most predictable gm's ever. He can influence what a coach is doing without dictating them to do it.

[countrybama24]

Because the goal of our organization is to minimize risk and maximize short-term wins, even at the expense of long-term player development.

[StocktonShorts]

Here's a detailed look at how badly Corbin's use of Randy Foye is killing the Jazz:

http://hoopspeak.com/2012/12/utahs-lineup-madness/

[erudite23]

Haha. Great read and an excellent summary of the problem. I wish that we had the collective intelligence within our organization to understand these types of concepts and make decisions accordingly.

Unfortunately, there is still too much of the old school 'eye test' theory in place that basically says numbers can't tell you everything, and player X might be posting bad numbers across the board, and there might be a ton of hard data to show that he is having a detrimental effect on the team, but he still moves a lot and appears to hustle so he I have a feeling he's really helping our team even though there is almost nothing tangible to demonstrate it.

[StocktonShorts]

Haha. Great read and an excellent summary of the problem. I wish that we had the collective intelligence within our organization to understand these types of concepts and make decisions accordingly.

Unfortunately, there is still too much of the old school 'eye test' theory in place that basically says numbers can't tell you everything, and player X might be posting bad numbers across the board, and there might be a ton of hard data to show that he is having a detrimental effect on the team, but he still moves a lot and appears to hustle so he I have a feeling he's really helping our team even though there is almost nothing tangible to demonstrate it.

If only we had a coach with an education in a field that encourages quantitative data analysis and logical thinking.

[reapaman]

I'ma tell you guys the somthing similar someone on here told me. If you know so much about coaching then why aren't you a coach? You may think he's doing the wrong thing or that this crap data proves something but who said your way would be any better? How do you know his philosphy isn't whats best for the team in the long run and by the end of the season corbin actions will have paid off?

You applauded this move in the off-season and now upset things are not going your way. Tough, just except it and live with it.

[red4hf]

Here's a detailed look at how badly Corbin's use of Randy Foye is killing the Jazz:

http://hoopspeak.com/2012/12/utahs-lineup-madness/

Wow..... That's a pretty frightening read....... Watching the games I didn't realize Foye was that big of a problem...... But it's kind of hard to argue with that analysis........