12/9/12 LAKERS VS JAZZ 6:30PM TWCS

[Father Time]

Why does a coach need to emphasize defense to PROFESSIONAL basketball players????? Completely ridiculous. Defense is part of their JOB. Half of the game is preventing the other team from scoring, sometimes that means running to get in front of the other guys!! It's not rocket science and it's mind boggling that the best basketball players in the world can't figure it out.

Can't believe these guys get paid millions to try hard only when they feel like it (which for this team isn't very often).

I can't believe what I read on these forums sometimes.

Defense must be that mythical concept that elite players can just "do" if they flip the switch and then hold teams to 90 or less points.

There's no such thing as analyzing offensive schemes and then analyzing the best defensive scheme to combat it.

All the greatest defensive teams in the past few decades had nothing to do with the coach right? Players just ran out in front of the guys they covered. The coach just happened to be there.

I'm not talking about schemes. I'm talking about staying between your man and the basket. Crossing the half-court line to get back on defense. Not turning your head every which way. It's honestly not hard. You know, don't sag off of known shooters, get a hand up on shot attempts, etc. Those are really simple things that don't require any schemes.

I mean, I know how to do that stuff and the highest level of ball I've ever played is pick-up.

[Father Time]

Of course it starts with the coach, what are you talking about?

Pat Riley laid the entire groundwork of a defensive principle and philosophy that he handed over to Spoelstra. 2011/12 had Miami playing top 5 defense.

If the coach doesn't chew into your face if you make multiple defensive lapses in judgment, you're going to be building bad habits.

A coach that eats you alive if you don't play top defense is a coach that gets the entire team to play great defense. Look at the Chicago Bulls and Thibs. You know you're expected to play top defense under Thibs or else you get benched or shipped out. Under Mike Antoni, you know if you take a play off defensively he's not going to chew you out if you throw up ok offensive numbers.

It's a night and day difference. Just because you get paid millions doesn't mean your entire team can play elite defense. It starts with the coach.

Our defense wasn't great even with Mike Brown, who's supposed specialty was defense. It was better than it is now, but still not elite. At some point the players need to choose to dig in on that end.

[dockingsched]

honestly, its not that hard to see. take your eyes off the ball and watch the other defenders. these guys are freaking LAZY. watch kobe cheat around screens when chasing his man, watch him lose his man all the time cause he's ball watching. watch the bigs not help dwight after dwight goes helps others. watch morris either pressure his man way too much or just give way too much room.

this isn't a system problem, its an effort problem. watch dwight turn around and show frustration at his teammates. they're not giving any effort. seriously, watch the defenders that aren't on the ball, they are playing like a bunch of cocky i don'† need to get my hands dirty prima-donnas.

[Kilroy]

honestly, its not that hard to see. take your eyes off the ball and watch the other defenders. these guys are freaking LAZY. watch kobe cheat around screens when chasing his man, watch him lose his man all the time cause he's ball watching. watch the bigs not help dwight after dwight goes helps others. watch morris either pressure his man way too much or just give way too much room.

this isn't a system problem, its an effort problem. watch dwight turn around and show frustration at his teammates. they're not giving any effort. seriously, watch the defenders that aren't on the ball, they are playing like a bunch of cocky i don'† need to get my hands dirty prima-donnas.

I see this too...

All that said, regardless if it's the players fault or not, one would think the coach might identify it as a talking point at least...

So the real interesting thing is what is Mitch seeing from his glass office overlooking the practice facility? What does he see in the locker room? It would seem pretty clear, that if this team doesn't go on a holy tear after Nash and Pau come back, changes are going to happen. I would think that if the coaching staff has clearly been preaching Defense and it still isn't happening, trades are coming...
But if D'Antoni sticks to his "Defense will work itself out stance," do we see a 4th coach this season?

Honestly, I don't know which side of the "D'Antoni Sucks!/It's the players fault!" issue is right... As far as I'm concerned, they're both right...

The question is, what does the FO do to fix it? Firing Brown so early in the season sets a pretty big precedent. It would seem that this season isn't about patience. So when the ax falls, who's head will be under it?

Honestly, I'd hate to be Nash right now.

[IamBBAnalysis]

honestly, its not that hard to see. take your eyes off the ball and watch the other defenders. these guys are freaking LAZY. watch kobe cheat around screens when chasing his man, watch him lose his man all the time cause he's ball watching. watch the bigs not help dwight after dwight goes helps others. watch morris either pressure his man way too much or just give way too much room.

this isn't a system problem, its an effort problem. watch dwight turn around and show frustration at his teammates. they're not giving any effort. seriously, watch the defenders that aren't on the ball, they are playing like a bunch of cocky i don'† need to get my hands dirty prima-donnas.

I see this too...

All that said, regardless if it's the players fault or not, one would think the coach might identify it as a talking point at least...

So the real interesting thing is what is Mitch seeing from his glass office overlooking the practice facility? What does he see in the locker room? It would seem pretty clear, that if this team doesn't go on a holy tear after Nash and Pau come back, changes are going to happen. I would think that if the coaching staff has clearly been preaching Defense and it still isn't happening, trades are coming...
But if D'Antoni sticks to his "Defense will work itself out stance," do we see a 4th coach this season?

Honestly, I don't know which side of the "D'Antoni Sucks!/It's the players fault!" issue is right... As far as I'm concerned, they're both right...

The question is, what does the FO do to fix it? Firing Brown so early in the season sets a pretty big precedent. It would seem that this season isn't about patience. So when the ax falls, who's head will be under it?

Honestly, I'd hate to be Nash right now.

First post! Been reading this board for years though...just signed up.

I don't think there is any chance they fire D'Antonni this season. The big reason is money but also because they just can't keep changing things in the middle of the season. The team needs stability...or at least the semblance of it.

My feeling with D'Antonni is he did not have the right attitude coming in and I hope it changes. He was cocky about how good the team was and confident in what the team would do offensively. Looking at things now that is the opposite of what the team needed.

They need to get back to the basics and grind out some ugly wins. Defense first. Play hard and trust each other as a team, etc. There are some things he is doing well though. He is making adjustments and playing guys that are giving effort. Meeks, Hill, etc.

Anyway, my take is the stars need to set the example. And right now that is Kobe and Dwight. Both these players know and have said the problem is defense to the media. Now show it!

[VTi]

Does a Jodie meeks ever not get blocked on a drive?

And they always seems to turn it up to late, play with some passion and that every possesion counts! Its sickening to watch this team loose without putting in a real effort

[dockingsched]

honestly, its not that hard to see. take your eyes off the ball and watch the other defenders. these guys are freaking LAZY. watch kobe cheat around screens when chasing his man, watch him lose his man all the time cause he's ball watching. watch the bigs not help dwight after dwight goes helps others. watch morris either pressure his man way too much or just give way too much room.

this isn't a system problem, its an effort problem. watch dwight turn around and show frustration at his teammates. they're not giving any effort. seriously, watch the defenders that aren't on the ball, they are playing like a bunch of cocky i don'† need to get my hands dirty prima-donnas.

I see this too...

All that said, regardless if it's the players fault or not, one would think the coach might identify it as a talking point at least...

he most def. has made it a talking point. my post a few pages back from last night's post game comments:

d'antoni didn't just keep talking O, i don't know why people keep saying that. he keeps talking about what i think the lakers biggest issue, effort. this team is freaking lazy and overconfident.

KEVIN DING @KevinDing

D'Antoni on Lakers: "Somehow we've got to get the mentality over to where they're playing hard."

Dave McMenamin @mcten

D'Antoni: "We have too many guys that will take a possession off"

Mark Willard @Mark_T_Willard

D'Antoni was just asked if it's fair to say his players struggle with effort. His response... "yeah, it's fair."

Mike Trudell @LakersReporter

Both D'Antoni & Kobe point to lack of transition D, fast break points killing LAL. Utah has done it in all 4 matchups

this season (2 pre).

So the real interesting thing is what is Mitch seeing from his glass office overlooking the practice facility? What does he see in the locker room? It would seem pretty clear, that if this team doesn't go on a holy tear after Nash and Pau come back, changes are going to happen. I would think that if the coaching staff has clearly been preaching Defense and it still isn't happening, trades are coming...
But if D'Antoni sticks to his "Defense will work itself out stance," do we see a 4th coach this season?

Honestly, I don't know which side of the "D'Antoni Sucks!/It's the players fault!" issue is right... As far as I'm concerned, they're both right..

The question is, what does the FO do to fix it? Firing Brown so early in the season sets a pretty big precedent. It would seem that this season isn't about patience. So when the ax falls, who's head will be under it?

Honestly, I'd hate to be Nash right now.

well, i don't think d'antoni is saying "defense will work itself out stance" at all. he's been calling the players effort into question for several games now, and he benched jamison in favor of hill to start the 2nd half last night.

[semi-sentient]

I'm more shocked than anything. Injuries have obviously been a big factor. But there's a decent chance this team won't even make the playoffs. I knew we might not live up to the hype, but I never, ever, ever saw that as even a possibility.

It's definitely shocking... and frustrating. I wasn't going to get league pass (again) this year because I didn't want to get too fanatical, but then the thought crossed my mind that I was going to miss something really special.

Yeah it's been special alright. Short bus style.

[EArl]

Defense isn't as easy as people make it seem. Obviously everyone can play some sort of defense, but for those players that pride themselves on playing "good" defense it takes a lot of work and strategy.

If we then get to defensive schemes that is even harder. One think I did like about Mike Brown was his schemes. He prided himself on his defense but he didnt have the means to transfer that to his players.

[Jajwanda]

You have to set an example. If a guy doesn't play defense he doesn't continue playing. Then things will change. There's a reason Meeks tries, he knows he'd fall out of the rotation if he didn't. Hill knows that he could also lose his spot if he doesn't play hard on defense.

The other guys? Not so much.

They're saving energy on defense. Give me 32-34 great minutes Kobe as opposed to 40 minutes with no D. Metta you shoot 3s, what's so tiring about what you do? If his minutes have to be reduced as well then so be it. It's inexcusable.

[madmaxmedia]

Honestly, I don't know which side of the "D'Antoni Sucks!/It's the players fault!" issue is right... As far as I'm concerned, they're both right...

When your 'Championship or Bust' roster is 9-12, there's probably sucking all around...

Could you imagine how much better things would be around here if Lakers were only a mediocre 12-9?

[madmaxmedia]

Defense isn't as easy as people make it seem. Obviously everyone can play some sort of defense, but for those players that pride themselves on playing "good" defense it takes a lot of work and strategy.

If we then get to defensive schemes that is even harder. One think I did like about Mike Brown was his schemes. He prided himself on his defense but he didnt have the means to transfer that to his players.

This. There are enough guys scrapping to make the NBA that there is no lack of effort, but there are still guys (and teams) that stand out defensively.

The Lakers seem to have way too many breakdowns leading to easy scoring opportunities. Often that is due to poor recognition, rotation, general awareness, etc., and not only from literally just not trying hard.

I think to a man the Lakers all are frustrated and not enjoying this right now, and if harder effort was the ONLY thing required, it would have been fixed already.