Where would the Suns be with Nash instead of Goran?

[mybloodisorange]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/224943/Sources_Nerve_Irritation_Delaying_Return_Of_Steve_Nash

Nash, who has missed 19 of the Lakers' 21 games, is expected to return before the end of this month, sources said.

With all of Nash's injuries and troubles recently it got me thinking...

Where would the Suns be right now if we had Nash instead of Goran?

*for the purposes of this thread just say Nash would have agreed to the same contract Goran did or maybe slightly more.





One thing for sure is that Bassy and Marshall would be logging some serious minutes. It would probably help Marshall play through some rookie mistakes and help him gain some confidence. Bassy on the other hand would probably thrive initially then get injured after a couple weeks

[rsavaj]

We'd probably repeat the last two years....start off horribly, make a late push for the 8th seed, and then miss the playoffs by like two games after a key player gets injured.

[Calvin Klein]

Most possible scenario is Nash is not injured. Considering he got injured during a Lakers game.

[ShawnBronald]

Most possible scenario is Nash is not injured. Considering he got injured during a Lakers game.

Agreed. People still underestimate our training staff's worth. Consider that Nash and Hill have only played 2 games combined this season (their first in many years away from the Suns). No, it's not a coincidence at all.

[denial]

His health status is irrelevant. We'd be the same exact team basically. We might have 1 or 2 more wins but the end result would be exactly the same.

If you're honest with yourself, we did not "compete" for the 8th seed last year at all. We were out of it definitively a few games after the allstar break imo.

The only difference have Nash would make this year, is it would delay our ultimate complete dis-assembly and true rebuild by yet another year.

I love Nash, but if you look closely, we're the same without him that we were with him (comparing to last season). Our amazing PnR game ended 2-3 years ago. Nash would hold the ball and probe and probe until he found an opening... same exact the Goran does.

The Nash we all fell in love with died 2-3 seasons ago. We just refuse to let go.

I am so happy that we traded him. Now if we would just admit "full rebuild" we can finally move on and get a new team.

We have no team right now. We have inter rum slot holders... "replacement players" if you will.

[rsavaj]

His health status is irrelevant. We'd be the same exact team basically. We might have 1 or 2 more wins but the end result would be exactly the same.

If you're honest with yourself, we did not "compete" for the 8th seed last year at all. We were out of it definitively a few games after the allstar break imo.

The only difference have Nash would make this year, is it would delay our ultimate complete dis-assembly and true rebuild by yet another year.

I love Nash, but if you look closely, we're the same without him that we were with him (comparing to last season). Our amazing PnR game ended 2-3 years ago. Nash would hold the ball and probe and probe until he found an opening... same exact the Goran does.

The Nash we all fell in love with died 2-3 seasons ago. We just refuse to let go.

I am so happy that we traded him. Now if we would just admit "full rebuild" we can finally move on and get a new team.

We have no team right now. We have inter rum slot holders... "replacement players" if you will.

Considering we were in the hunt with 2 games left in the season, I would say we were in it till the end.

If we had won the Utah game and the San An game, we were the 8th seed.

[denial]

Considering we were in the hunt with 2 games left in the season, I would say we were in it till the end.

We were NOT "in the hunt"

If we had won the Utah game and the San An game, we were the 8th seed.

If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

[rsavaj]

Considering we were in the hunt with 2 games left in the season, I would say we were in it till the end.

We were NOT "in the hunt"

If we had won the Utah game and the San An game, we were the 8th seed.

If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

I'm not sure what we're semantically disagreeing about...but if we won the last 2 games, we were in.

That's about as close to being in as you can get.

[DRK]

Considering we were in the hunt with 2 games left in the season, I would say we were in it till the end.

We were NOT "in the hunt"

Well.. we were. Stop being in denial.

[denial]

Considering we were in the hunt with 2 games left in the season, I would say we were in it till the end.

We were NOT "in the hunt"

Well.. we were. Stop being in denial.

I consider "in the hunt" to mean we have a good shot of making it.
Needing two wins in a row
An away game against an equal or superior team who is playing for playoff spot (jazz)
At home game against a superior team (sa)

Maybe "barely in the hunt" would have been more qualified. I suppose you're correct, technically.

At the end of the day, we were not a playoff team (second year in a row)
We had losing streaks of 5 games and 4 games (mostly against mediocre teams)

And Nash had Grant Hill and Channing Frye.

Look people, I enjoyed Steve Nash a lot. But we are not honest about the past two seasons. We didn't just get bad this year.

[denial]

That's about as close to being in as you can get.

It is?

I totally disagree. It was a total long shot. What do you think an odds maker would have given us at that point, with 2 games remaining, to make the playoffs?

We were "close" if you ignored the facts about not only our position (which you are considering) but also our quality of play (which you are ignoring). We had very low chances of winning those games, imo. And the results seem to support my opinion.

To me, "as close as you can get" is you go into final night of regular season tied for the 8th spot and need a W (against an equally rated opponent) to hold on to it.

I am not disagreeing with your point that "if we won the last two games we would be in." I am arguing the likelihood of us winning those last two games as being "close". I say they were hail marry's

EDIT (#3): I dont mean to hijack the thread. To answer the question here succinctly: I think we would have maybe 1 or 2 more wins with Nash here, because of his veteran leadership. but the end result of the season would be the same.

[mybloodisorange]

I knew the denial jokes were inevitable


Injured or not I dont think the Suns would be much better even with Steve to be honest. In my opinion Goran has looked pretty damned good and has been the lone bright spot so far. Sure Steve is a better 3 and free throw shooter but Goran's playmaking has been improving steadily and he can use his athleticism to get to the hoop much better than Steve obviosuly. And defensively its no contest Goran is becoming quite the ball thief the past couple seasons - and being left handed I think is somewhat of an advantage on both ends of the court as well.

[lilfishi22]

I knew the denial jokes were inevitable


Injured or not I dont think the Suns would be much better even with Steve to be honest. In my opinion Goran has looked pretty damned good and has been the lone bright spot so far. Sure Steve is a better 3 and free throw shooter but Goran's playmaking has been improving steadily and he can use his athleticism to get to the hoop much better than Steve obviosuly. And defensively its no contest Goran is becoming quite the ball thief the past couple seasons - and being left handed I think is somewhat of an advantage on both ends of the court as well.

Steve's IQ and basketball skills is miles ahead of what Goran can put together on the offensive end, even with his athleticism. He could break down anyone one on one and get to the hoop basically at will. He obviously stunk it up on defense but I think he's great enough on the offensive end to offset what he gave up on the defensive end.

[Frank Lee]

'Where would we be with Nash instead of Goran ?'

In a much better trade position

[rsavaj]

I knew the denial jokes were inevitable


Injured or not I dont think the Suns would be much better even with Steve to be honest. In my opinion Goran has looked pretty damned good and has been the lone bright spot so far. Sure Steve is a better 3 and free throw shooter but Goran's playmaking has been improving steadily and he can use his athleticism to get to the hoop much better than Steve obviosuly. And defensively its no contest Goran is becoming quite the ball thief the past couple seasons - and being left handed I think is somewhat of an advantage on both ends of the court as well.

Steve's IQ and basketball skills is miles ahead of what Goran can put together on the offensive end, even with his athleticism. He could break down anyone one on one and get to the hoop basically at will. He obviously stunk it up on defense but I think he's great enough on the offensive end to offset what he gave up on the defensive end.

I agree with you in terms of his skills, IQ, and ability to run the offense, but his days of breaking down his defender and getting into the lane were long gone, unfortunately. That Nash died like...2 years ago.

[YFZblu]

I consider "in the hunt" to mean we have a good shot of making it.
Needing two wins in a row
An away game against an equal or superior team who is playing for playoff spot (jazz)
At home game against a superior team (sa)

To clear this up - The Suns had beaten Utah twice up to that point, and here is the lineup SA rolled out during our 66th game:

Patty Mills
DeJuan Blair
Boris Diaw
Kawhi Leonard
Danny Green

I think both were winnable

[Moochthemonkey]

+all the close, winnable games we probably would have won
+we'd be around .500%
+Nash wouldn't be injured (moot point?)
+Beasley would be worth more than Adam Morrison
+Gortat would actually be somewhat of an offensive threat
+Scola would be a borderline all star
+Dudley would have been playing better sooner
+Better attendance
+/-Our defense would be about the same (near the bottom...)
-Less development for the younger guys

I think goran's doing a great job, but his property of multiplication isn't as strong as Nash's...needless to say. Dudley and Gortat's game thus far are proof of that.

[SunsRback4Good]

Nowhere!!! Dragic is our savior and last night was proof.

[EB2]

Nowhere!!! Dragic is our savior and last night was proof.

Yeah, but Dragic is no Nash (although he's a very good player and I'm glad he's with us again).

[lilfishi22]

I knew the denial jokes were inevitable


Injured or not I dont think the Suns would be much better even with Steve to be honest. In my opinion Goran has looked pretty damned good and has been the lone bright spot so far. Sure Steve is a better 3 and free throw shooter but Goran's playmaking has been improving steadily and he can use his athleticism to get to the hoop much better than Steve obviosuly. And defensively its no contest Goran is becoming quite the ball thief the past couple seasons - and being left handed I think is somewhat of an advantage on both ends of the court as well.

Steve's IQ and basketball skills is miles ahead of what Goran can put together on the offensive end, even with his athleticism. He could break down anyone one on one and get to the hoop basically at will. He obviously stunk it up on defense but I think he's great enough on the offensive end to offset what he gave up on the defensive end.

I agree with you in terms of his skills, IQ, and ability to run the offense, but his days of breaking down his defender and getting into the lane were long gone, unfortunately. That Nash died like...2 years ago.

He relies on the pick a lot more than before but for the most part, defenders still has a ton of respect for his triple threat abilities. Defenders don't respect Goran nearly as much. But you're right, he's not as effective one on one as before but I still think it's better than Goran's ability to break down his man.