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GT#22: Brooklyn @ Chicago - 12/15 - 8:00pm on YES

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Re: GT#22: Brooklyn @ Chicago - 12/15 - 8:00pm on YES 

Post#321 » by DarkXaero » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:30 am

624 wrote:
DarkXaero wrote:
624 wrote:lol...just read the last few pages.


first of all, Avery isn't a good coach...but blaming him for benching Lopez? Really? If he plays longer than 24 minutes and Brook gets injured you guys would rip him to shreds. He had a time limit and stood by it, just like last night where we could have used him in OT. 1 game isn't worth the season or maybe even career for him.


second of all, holy knee-jerk to all of these posts.
Avery didn't stand by the time limit though. He ultimately ended up going over it.


He went 1 minute over after going 1 minute under last night.
That's not the point though, is it? He really shouldn't have brought Brook back into the game if he wanted to limit him to 24 minutes. If Brook was to get injured in that extra minute and a half, what would you say?
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Re: GT#22: Brooklyn @ Chicago - 12/15 - 8:00pm on YES 

Post#322 » by HelloBrooklyn » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:36 am

Where in the world does it say only playing 24 minutes exact keeps you of having a safe game? Does 3 more minutes in a game hurts him?? Honestly... My point is these people guesstimating and not playing Lopez important minutes when the lead is so small isn't a problem.

Ultimately you guys are right though. D-Will and JJ should've stepped up to finish the game in the first place and not blowing the lead. But 3 more minutes in the game wouldn't have hurt Brook's ankle.

As for Rondo.. Why can't he work out in this team. He is a better defender, rebounder, and passer than D. Will. Our team is filled with scorers. He will fit perfectly fine in BK.
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Re: GT#22: Brooklyn @ Chicago - 12/15 - 8:00pm on YES 

Post#323 » by Paradise » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:37 am

He put him back in after the lead was gone. He should have never taken him out.
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Re: GT#22: Brooklyn @ Chicago - 12/15 - 8:00pm on YES 

Post#324 » by 624 » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:42 am

It still amuses me how many people rate Noah over Lopez. Brook is such a superior player it's not even funny.
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Re: GT#22: Brooklyn @ Chicago - 12/15 - 8:00pm on YES 

Post#325 » by slowmotion5587 » Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:18 am

624 wrote:It still amuses me how many people rate Noah over Lopez. Brook is such a superior player it's not even funny.


I don't think either team would trade one for the other. I think both players are of the same value to their teams. I mean the Bulls let a very very good backup center in Asik go to show their confidence of Joakim Noah.

IMO as a Bulls fan I don't think Lopez is the superior player. I think he's the superior scorer, no doubt, but in terms of rebounds and defense Noah is superior. I mean, on an off night he still had 10 rebounds. I think Noah's consistency even when he's 2nd in the league in MPG at 40.1 is just crazy.

The fact that Noah is tied with Lebron James for the most double double scoring/rebounds with at least 5 assists is very remarkable.

So all in all, I think both players are very valuable to each team.
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Re: GT#22: Brooklyn @ Chicago - 12/15 - 8:00pm on YES 

Post#326 » by blumatic » Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:31 am

Knick fan here. Dont like ya'll but I have to chime in.

If its true that some would trade Deron for Holiday or Rondo is foolish. Deron is injured and it may be an all year thing.

Melo had the same struggle last year and so did Amare. Both players were hurt all year and that fed into the idea that they cant play well together. In fact It was Melo that was having the worst year than Amare. Melo was missing lay ups. Air balling mid range jumpers.

Ive seen Deron play. That boy is nice. He is a true beast. His body is not working with him right now and there is no way of knowing when it will happen. Melo got hurt like in January last year with an Ankle, wrist and groin And Didnt start beasting again until the last week of March and he's been sensational ever since.

I see Deron's play picking up in January. I like DWill. He will get better. Joe Johnson though. Eh.
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Re: GT#22: Brooklyn @ Chicago - 12/15 - 8:00pm on YES 

Post#327 » by Jeffster81 » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:03 am

624 wrote:It still amuses me how many people rate Noah over Lopez. Brook is such a superior player it's not even funny.


Not a chance is this a correct statement. But that's okay as Brook can watch Joakim on the All Star this year.
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Re: GT#22: Brooklyn @ Chicago - 12/15 - 8:00pm on YES 

Post#328 » by Paradise » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:57 am

WolverineBlood wrote:
624 wrote:It still amuses me how many people rate Noah over Lopez. Brook is such a superior player it's not even funny.


Not a chance is this a correct statement. But that's okay as Brook can watch Joakim on the All Star this year.

If you mean watch him while their in the game together then sure.
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Re: GT#22: Brooklyn @ Chicago - 12/15 - 8:00pm on YES 

Post#329 » by MrDollarBills » Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:16 am

blumatic wrote:Knick fan here. Dont like ya'll but I have to chime in.

If its true that some would trade Deron for Holiday or Rondo is foolish. Deron is injured and it may be an all year thing.

Melo had the same struggle last year and so did Amare. Both players were hurt all year and that fed into the idea that they cant play well together. In fact It was Melo that was having the worst year than Amare. Melo was missing lay ups. Air balling mid range jumpers.

Ive seen Deron play. That boy is nice. He is a true beast. His body is not working with him right now and there is no way of knowing when it will happen. Melo got hurt like in January last year with an Ankle, wrist and groin And Didnt start beasting again until the last week of March and he's been sensational ever since.

I see Deron's play picking up in January. I like DWill. He will get better. Joe Johnson though. Eh.



Deron Williams has pretty much played this brand of garbage basketball for a good 85% of the time that he's been apart of the Nets, so for you to blame this on injury sounds pretty uninformed.
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Re: GT#22: Brooklyn @ Chicago - 12/15 - 8:00pm on YES 

Post#330 » by MrDollarBills » Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:22 am

vincecarter4pres wrote:
therealbig3 wrote:Re: Lopez

I agree that taking him out isn't something against Avery...we need to be super cautious with Lopez. And we SHOULD be closing out games without him, because we have two guys who have been among the best in the league the last few years at closing out games in Deron and JJ.

I'll also add: other fanbases are MUCH more forgiving of their players' mistakes than we are of D-Will. Hell, Hornets fans still make excuses for CP3, even when his passiveness throughout seasons and during the playoffs even makes current D-Will look like a smart Russell Westbrook. Injuries are a very real thing, and I don't think it's even possible to deduce what they are or aren't affecting with a guy's play.

To me this is a spin of a stat sheet and I mean no personal offense by that, but that's honestly what I pull from this.

I think this fan base has been as lenient and apologist as humanly possible for D Will since he's been here.

Watching the game, his decision making his DEFERRING in the 2nd half, his low BBIQ dumbness, his awful body language and facial expressions... there's no more spin needed... he doesn't have it right now and it's scary to wonder if this is just who dude is.

Who cares about the injuries? No player is always in perfect health. But he has no resiliency, no focus, cannot maintain passion, nor keep it together or lead. Can't make good decisions under pressure. Can't make an effort to takeover. He doesn't need to score or chuck jumpers to takeover.

Sure there are a lot of factors helping him be meh, but the main one is him, his personality. It's obvious as day. He just does not bring it all game. Coasts and passes the buck.



Agreed 100%.

The guy held this franchise hostage, only to get a near elite level roster around him and he still pulls the same garbage that he did while we were in NJ.
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Re: GT#22: Brooklyn @ Chicago - 12/15 - 8:00pm on YES 

Post#331 » by jerseyjac » Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:13 pm

vincecarter4pres wrote:
therealbig3 wrote:Re: Lopez

I agree that taking him out isn't something against Avery...we need to be super cautious with Lopez. And we SHOULD be closing out games without him, because we have two guys who have been among the best in the league the last few years at closing out games in Deron and JJ.

I'll also add: other fanbases are MUCH more forgiving of their players' mistakes than we are of D-Will. Hell, Hornets fans still make excuses for CP3, even when his passiveness throughout seasons and during the playoffs even makes current D-Will look like a smart Russell Westbrook. Injuries are a very real thing, and I don't think it's even possible to deduce what they are or aren't affecting with a guy's play.

To me this is a spin of a stat sheet and I mean no personal offense by that, but that's honestly what I pull from this.

I think this fan base has been as lenient and apologist as humanly possible for D Will since he's been here.

Watching the game, his decision making his DEFERRING in the 2nd half, his low BBIQ dumbness, his awful body language and facial expressions... there's no more spin needed... he doesn't have it right now and it's scary to wonder if this is just who dude is.

Who cares about the injuries? No player is always in perfect health. But he has no resiliency, no focus, cannot maintain passion, nor keep it together or lead. Can't make good decisions under pressure. Can't make an effort to takeover. He doesn't need to score or chuck jumpers to takeover.

Sure there are a lot of factors helping him be meh, but the main one is him, his personality. It's obvious as day. He just does not bring it all game. Coasts and passes the buck.


There is no way I cannot agree with almost everything you say, so take that with a grain of salt and hear me out...Just by watching every play from your couch, not knowing DWill personally and purely speculating because of body language or facial expression seen from your TV doesn't give you the ability to say yeh DWill's personality sucks, lacks resiliency, passion and has no focus....

I will not deny the stories we have heard off the court, on the golf course, etc...if that feeds to this theory so be it...

Now, I wont say it isn't a possibility that his current persona is affecting his game...its no secret his body language and facial expressions do not add up to anything positive..

At the same time (no apologies just do the math), once you add up the injuries, the pressure he puts on himself (as well as the weight of the organization and new city) and the fact that he has a coach who truly does not help our offensive situation your frustration, doubt and hesitation begins to take over...last night was better because DWill tried to stay aggressive, but nothing was working...if I remember correctly he missed 2fts in a row which does add to your point of a lack of focus (and I do not care how many were made though he hit a several in a row on the road)...Right now, it is obvious DWill is not in a comfort zone on the court...we talked about if he is not making his shots from the outside he loses confidence everywhere else...well last night he hit several from deep and still could not finish near the rim...

Those pullups/back shots off the dribble and his drives to the basket that he missed are more attributed to something physically holding him back rather than a focus or personality thing...I still believe his trying to lead, but the offense we are running most of the game becomes so stagnant, the ball doesn't switch sides of the floor and we get caught passing between two players before someone decides to shoot it...

Right now we have become so fixated on post play it has hurt our motion on offense and caused our team to become a jump shooting team...IMO, that is the challenge with choosing to become a post up - half court team...you have the tendency to stand around and though you believe you are moving the ball it usually gets caught on one side unless you make an effort to swing the ball....

I have no problem with the majority of our offense being a post up half court game (which in essence should be on some nights 60% of the off.)...I do have a problem with our players not moving the ball as well as they should...last night we showed moments of moving the ball, but overall it was another one of those games where you ask yourself what are we doing...isn't there anything else we can run...

Right now our defense is not overcoming our offensive woes which you would think should at least get you out of Chicago w/ a win...I believe 23 games into the season we are still learning as a team who we are, the inconsistency comes from players being out and us not being able to find their stride together as team and the fact that there is going to be a lot longer learning curve than some fans may think there should be...

It is flat out asinine that some would suggest trades 23 games into the season...its a joke...have this conversation again halfway through the season...even at that point I will tell you this team has really just started to get to know one another on the court...

High expectations which were blown out of proportion along with some injuries all teams have to deal with combined with an offensive system that seems to hurt us more than it helps us...adds up to a bewildered team, pressing and searching for answers...I told you making the playoffs would be our only goal this year for me and depending on the seed, I would say lets wait and see to where you should set the bar especially in the EC where everyone is beating up everyone....

I honestly thought our shooting might save us, man was I wrong...but lets not blame this whole thing on a players personality or inability to lead right now...those are obvious questions that come during an ugly stretch of basketball...but you have to remember there are too many "new" factors going on right now for you to really point the finger at one aspect or one player...its accumulative and it is disappointing we are not executing like we should be able to...
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Re: GT#22: Brooklyn @ Chicago - 12/15 - 8:00pm on YES 

Post#332 » by Keith Van Horn » Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:46 pm

Hey guys, The Hobbit was fantastic, I highly recommend you all seeing it if you're a fan of those LOTR movies.

With that said, can anyone give me a quick game summary of last night? A quick read tells me I'm glad I went to the movie instead of watching the game...
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Re: GT#22: Brooklyn @ Chicago - 12/15 - 8:00pm on YES 

Post#333 » by HelloBrooklyn » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:24 pm

macgyver893 wrote:Hey guys, The Hobbit was fantastic, I highly recommend you all seeing it if you're a fan of those LOTR movies.

With that said, can anyone give me a quick game summary of last night? A quick read tells me I'm glad I went to the movie instead of watching the game...


I really want to see it. I feel like you have to see all of the lord of the rings movies to watch it though and I haven't seen all of it.
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Re: GT#22: Brooklyn @ Chicago - 12/15 - 8:00pm on YES 

Post#334 » by DarkXaero » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:48 pm

WolverineBlood wrote:
624 wrote:It still amuses me how many people rate Noah over Lopez. Brook is such a superior player it's not even funny.


Not a chance is this a correct statement. But that's okay as Brook can watch Joakim on the All Star this year.
Whatever you might think of his statement, Lopez looked much better than Noah last night. And this is despite him playing with limited minutes.
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Re: GT#22: Brooklyn @ Chicago - 12/15 - 8:00pm on YES 

Post#335 » by Paradise » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:59 pm

macgyver893 wrote:Hey guys, The Hobbit was fantastic, I highly recommend you all seeing it if you're a fan of those LOTR movies.

With that said, can anyone give me a quick game summary of last night? A quick read tells me I'm glad I went to the movie instead of watching the game...

It was a very good grind out game. Playoff-ish slow tempo but of course, after we go up 6 with 2 minutes and the Bulls start to get nervous, the crowd started gowning in signs of defeat...We give them the game by countless turnovers and stupid rotations from Avery. Deron tries to be the hero instead of giving it to JJ who was the 2nd best scorer of the night.
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Re: GT#22: Brooklyn @ Chicago - 12/15 - 8:00pm on YES 

Post#336 » by halfHAVOC » Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:12 pm

can we just like rest deron williams for a week or something? like force him to take time off to recover more he just doesn't look like himself out there, he doesn't have the same lift on any of his shots.
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Re: GT#22: Brooklyn @ Chicago - 12/15 - 8:00pm on YES 

Post#337 » by Paradise » Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:53 pm

“We never got organized, which is my fault,” Williams said. “Belinelli came off the pick-and-roll and just got an easy layup. He pretty much walked down the lane, which can’t really happen. It’s not what we wanted to see happen at a crucial point in the game.”


^ Atleast he took the blame for the loss.
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Re: GT#22: Brooklyn @ Chicago - 12/15 - 8:00pm on YES 

Post#338 » by DarkXaero » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:06 pm

Paradise wrote:
“We never got organized, which is my fault,” Williams said. “Belinelli came off the pick-and-roll and just got an easy layup. He pretty much walked down the lane, which can’t really happen. It’s not what we wanted to see happen at a crucial point in the game.”


^ Atleast he took the blame for the loss.
He has held himself accountable all season. The frustrating part is that we haven't seen any improvement from him, only regression.
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Re: GT#22: Brooklyn @ Chicago - 12/15 - 8:00pm on YES 

Post#339 » by NjNeTs1029 » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:12 pm

halfHAVOC wrote:can we just like rest deron williams for a week or something? like force him to take time off to recover more he just doesn't look like himself out there, he doesn't have the same lift on any of his shots.


i agree. we should shut him down for like a week and let him rest. he clearly isnt playing at full strength.
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Re: GT#22: Brooklyn @ Chicago - 12/15 - 8:00pm on YES 

Post#340 » by jerseyjac » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:41 pm

Paradise wrote:
“We never got organized, which is my fault,” Williams said. “Belinelli came off the pick-and-roll and just got an easy layup. He pretty much walked down the lane, which can’t really happen. It’s not what we wanted to see happen at a crucial point in the game.”


^ Atleast he took the blame for the loss.

Thats what leaders do...no excuses...

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