Blue Jays are all in with R.A. Dickey trade

[Gibby]

The system is now nearly totally bereft of good senior positional prospects, unless you count Cooper and Gose, both of whom obviously already have major league experience. Fortunately there's still a fair amount of pitching, which should continue to prop up the team in the system rankings.

I said it many times before in the other thread, and I'm sure to the annoyance of many, I'll say it again in this one: there was no need to take this kind of gamble right now. They already had a team with a great chance at making the playoffs. They could have kept their powder dry; if needed, quality players always become available at the trade deadline, and though they're often pricey you can't tell me they'd be more expensive than what the Jays just gave up to get R.A. Dickey.

It was truly a brutal trade.

There is very rarely a pitcher the calibre of R.A Dickey available at the deadline. Usually it is overpaid veteran SP's who are past their prime and slot in as a #3 or 4. Or it's a fluke season where a guy is having a great season and a team wants to sell high. R.A Dickey has been really, really, good the last 3 seasons.

You also seem to be worried a lot about our prospect rankings, while I understand your frustration that the Jays don't have a top 5 farm system anymore, you have to understand that the Jays won't be relying on the farm system for 2-3 years at least. We have a group of players who are under contract for awhile, and barring any major setbacks they will be with the club for the next few years. This window gives AA time to draft new prospects, develop the ones we still have without rushing them.

I bet in 2 years time we have at least a top 15ish system again.

There aren't pitchers that put up a 3-3.5 WAR at the deadline each year? Because realistically, that's what Dickey figures to put up this year. A Shaun Marcum would have got you most if not all of the way there, plus you'd still have the best catching prospect in baseball and the rest of those assets.

Again, there was no need to make this deal at this time.

Not likely no, and if there was a pitcher that could put a 3.0+ WAR, he'd cost us elite prospects as well...and half the season would be gone.

If there was ever a time to make a deal like this, the off season was the time. Waiting until the trade deadline and expecting to get a 3.0+WAR pitcher(not a one year wonder) without giving up good prospects is kind of stupid.

I also heard you cant use WAR to evaluate knuckle ballers because it uses FIP, so i'm not sure what Dickeys true value would be.

[Schad]

If what AA said was true and we couldn't budge 2013 payroll anymore then it's almost impossible that we would have been able to get the same thing at the trade deadline. This was a truely unique situation, and in my opinion to claim that we could have done the same thing whenever we wanted isn't realistic.

The fact that we have no payroll wiggle room is the point, though. The roster as currently constructed kinda has to be sufficient, because at the moment we lack the prospects to swing another major trade, and the available cash to make a big deal in free agency or a trade where we take on a bunch of salary to get a player at a lower price. Hence the statement that we're truly all-in; we have what looks to be a very good team, but it has to be all that, because we don't have much room in which to operate here.

[Fairview4Life]

If what AA said was true and we couldn't budge 2013 payroll anymore then it's almost impossible that we would have been able to get the same thing at the trade deadline. This was a truely unique situation, and in my opinion to claim that we could have done the same thing whenever we wanted isn't realistic.

The fact that we have no payroll wiggle room is the point, though. The roster as currently constructed kinda has to be sufficient, because at the moment we lack the prospects to swing another major trade, and the available cash to make a big deal in free agency or a trade where we take on a bunch of salary to get a player at a lower price. Hence the statement that we're truly all-in; we have what looks to be a very good team, but it has to be all that, because we don't have much room in which to operate here.

Gose and Sanchez. Big trade.

[distracted]

The fact that we have no payroll wiggle room is the point, though. The roster as currently constructed kinda has to be sufficient, because at the moment we lack the prospects to swing another major trade, and the available cash to make a big deal in free agency or a trade where we take on a bunch of salary to get a player at a lower price. Hence the statement that we're truly all-in; we have what looks to be a very good team, but it has to be all that, because we don't have much room in which to operate here.

I guess we just see this from a fundamentally different perspective then. It's rare that you are ever able to trade for top flight talent without taking a payroll hit.

I can't think of another deal where a team took on a (potential?) allstar without spending an extra dollar of payroll. I believe it's foolish to simply assume we could have improved the team by nearly as much midseason, especially if said deal had to be payroll neutral.

It sounds like we had little room to operate prior to the trade regardless, and this provided us something that we weren't likely to get down the road (IMO).

[MikeM]

If you look at just the salaries for this year... we pretty much have the best team 120M can buy. We have no bad contracts except for Lind.

The cost to achieve this is obviously prospects.

Free agency is just such a joke. In order to sign ANYONE who is a difference maker you have to tie an anchor around your neck.

Look at the Rangers. They're trying to be frugal and disciplined but still going after people. They got no one. And that's a state with no tax and a winning ball club. No one. I mean, they might get Bourn for 1 bazillion..

We just have to hope we can rebuild the system in the next 3 years because we probably won't need much from now until then. Kris Bryant #10 overall would help.

[andyo]

Gose and Sanchez. Big trade.

Add Osuna to that exclusive list as well.