Higher Trade Value: Deron or Dragic

[Baddy Chuck]

Deron by a lot. An insurmountable amount really.

[Texas Chuck]

11th in player jersey sales so far this season. So you are just plain wrong on this one.

Not to be on TT's side in this debate because he's mostly gone too far off the deep end. But jersey sales are immaterial to the franchise because that revenue is split evenly amongst all teams. Also I dont think lots of fans are rushing out to catch Deron when he's in town the way they do guys like Durant or Lebron or Nash or Blake or Duncan or Kyrie etc... He's just not that kind of player. Of course he generates more $$$ than Dragic who is largely anonymous outside of Phoenix, Houston and among pretty avid basketball fans. Still trying to use his $$$ generating ability as argument for him having more value seems a touch misguided.

You would obviously have to pay more in assets for Deron so in that sense hes more valuable. He's also simply the superior player so in that sense hes more valuable because of the scarcity of talent in the league.

As far as non-trade value but simply bang for the buck--Dragic has a case but thats not what this debate is.

[loserX]

11th in player jersey sales so far this season. So you are just plain wrong on this one.

Not to be on TT's side in this debate because he's mostly gone too far off the deep end. But jersey sales are immaterial to the franchise because that revenue is split evenly amongst all teams.

Specifically jersey sales, yes, you're right. I meant that as more of an indicator of his popularity, which would be manifested in other ways for the Nets. Sorry, I should have been clearer.

And yes, of course Deron clearly has a cachet with basketball fans that Dragic doesn't. And that *does* affect their relative trade value.

[TruthTelling]

Too bad popularity is the least important of all factors to the trade value and Deron loses out in all others which are production, age and contract and his popularity will never make up for a 70M$ salary difference.

Claiming that Deron Williams has more trade value than Dragic is the same as claiming that Joe Johnson has more trade value than Aaron Afflalo, utter non-sense.

[TruthTelling]

I think you'll find yourself in a minority on that one. Possibly a smaller minority than you have in this poll (currently about 3-to-1 in favour of Deron, not that it's scientific).

As if this or any other poll on realgm has any sort of relevance, the poll is only a popularity contest nothing more.

[loserX]

Too bad popularity is the least important of all factors to the trade value and Deron loses out in all others which are production, age and contract and his popularity will never make up for a 70M$ salary difference.

His popularity may in part make up for it if he's worth $70M in PR. I don't know the exact number, but you can bet that Goran Dragic wouldn't have been the face of the Nets' move to Brooklyn.

And, like I said, I believe that Deron's dip in production is the result of circumstance, not permanent. If you disagree, that's fine, that would be a reason for real concern. But I think real world GMs are so desperate for elite players, which Dragic probably never will be, that they will take the chance on Deron again.

Claiming that Deron Williams has more trade value than Dragic is the same as claiming that Joe Johnson has more trade value than Aaron Afflalo, utter non-sense.

Claiming that Dragic has more value than Deron Williams is like claiming that Kris Humphries has more trade value than Pau Gasol.

Hey, you're right, making up bad analogies with no justification whatsoever is fun!

[loserX]

I think you'll find yourself in a minority on that one. Possibly a smaller minority than you have in this poll (currently about 3-to-1 in favour of Deron, not that it's scientific).

As if this or any other poll on realgm has any sort of relevance, the poll is only a popularity contest nothing more.

You're 100% right, but then again your opinion is only an opinion too, with no relevance beyond that. So you may want to cool it with the "only a fool would disagree with me" talk.

[TruthTelling]

I backed up my opinion with facts, I don't see many facts brought up by Deron Williams supporters except for purely hypothetical marketability claims.

[TruthTelling]

Claiming that Dragic has more value than Deron Williams is like claiming that Kris Humphries has more trade value than Pau Gasol.

Hey, you're right, making up bad analogies with no justification whatsoever is fun!

It's not.

Even with Gasol's struggles, his PER is just on par with Humphries right now despite being 7 under his career average. And well Dragic's PER right now is going up and higher than Deron William's career average not just his current PER.

Plus Humphries is overpaid himself as is Gasol, while Dragic is underpaid.

Besides Humphries and Gasol are not that far apart in trade value as you think.

[loserX]

I backed up my opinion with facts, I don't see many facts brought up by Deron Williams supporters except for purely hypothetical marketability claims.

Yes, and no one is arguing that Dragic's current stats are better than Deron's. (And your claims about Deron's lack of marketabiliity are, to say the least, just as hypothetical.)

However, I have said repeatedly that I think Deron's troubles are temporary and circumstantial, and that other GMs (at least some of them) will take the chance that he will return to elite status. That is my OPINION.

Your OPINION is that he won't, and furthermore that nobody believes that he will, and that current stats are a 100% foolproof standard for the future.

You are perfectly entitled to that opinion. But everyone else's opinion is just as legitimate.

[TruthTelling]

1/3 of the voters in the poll do not believe that Deron has higher trade value. I'll take that as Dragic winning the poll if you substract those who clearly vote just on name value and nothing else.

The misguided mob will come around eventually when the polish comes off on Williams completely.

[Sun Scorched]

The unfortunate aspect of this thread is that it does seem, despite intentions, to have gone into the realm of popularity.

Not even Truth is making the argument that Deron wouldn't rank more popular comparitively. Joe Johnson would rank more popular than most other SGs, but his TRADE VALUE is abysmal.

That's the point being made here. Is Johnson is bad player? No. Does his contract suck? It's one of the worst in the league - therefore, his TRADE VALUE is not that high.

[loserX]

1/3 of the voters in the poll do not believe that Deron has higher trade value. I'll take that as Dragic winning the poll if you substract those who clearly vote just on name value and nothing else.

The misguided mob will come around eventually when the polish comes off on Williams completely.

You actually have literally no idea why people are voting the way they are. Literally none. So don't ascribe reasons to them. Please stop with the "the people who agree with me are obviously right and everyone else must obviously be wrong" nonsense. It's dismissive and only makes you look closed-minded, not smart.

You can't just not count votes because you don't like them. I'll take Deron as winning the poll because he is actually, you know, winning the poll.

[Trader_Joe]

The unfortunate aspect of this thread is that it does seem, despite intentions, to have gone into the realm of popularity.

Not even Truth is making the argument that Deron wouldn't rank more popular comparitively. Joe Johnson would rank more popular than most other SGs, but his TRADE VALUE is abysmal.

That's the point being made here. Is Johnson is bad player? No. Does his contract suck? It's one of the worst in the league - therefore, his TRADE VALUE is not that high.

except this isn't a popularity contest on facebook its a very specific question on the trade boars here. Meanwhile JJ is always near the top of the worst contract list, so clearly people here know the difference.

[NashtyNas]

The unfortunate aspect of this thread is that it does seem, despite intentions, to have gone into the realm of popularity.

Not even Truth is making the argument that Deron wouldn't rank more popular comparitively. Joe Johnson would rank more popular than most other SGs, but his TRADE VALUE is abysmal.

That's the point being made here. Is Johnson is bad player? No. Does his contract suck? It's one of the worst in the league - therefore, his TRADE VALUE is not that high.

except this isn't a popularity contest on facebook its a very specific question on the trade boars here. Meanwhile JJ is always near the top of the worst contract list, so clearly people here know the difference.

At this point in time, until we see something different from Deron, he's looking like a pretty bad contract himself. However, me myself, I think it's obviously a problem with the offense and that he can bounce back as soon as that changes. As a Suns fan, I'd be more than happy if my team took that gamble to pair Deron with Gortat. Dragic, Beasley, Dudley, Memphis pick for Williams is something I would be very interested in.

[jazzfan1971]

If I could have either one, only for taking on their contract I'd probably go with Deron.

Then again I'm basing that mostly on Deron's performance in Utah and not Bk.


I'll admit it, I'm biased. I'd be awfully wary taking on a guy owed 80+ mil shooting 39%, don't get me wrong. But the wide eyed optimist in me still thinks Deron could return to his former level back in Utah.

Now, keep in mind that Utah is a team with no star player currently. If I'm a team with a star or two I go with Dragic because I simply can't afford to pay Deron's salary in addition to the guys I'm all ready paying. I think even the Lakers would be wary of adding Deron with his salary for nothing. They'd demand they get to move Gasol.

Economics are huge in this league.

[Dragic13]

This thread was linked to the Nets bored....

Just saying. Not like polling is scientific in anyway but the stats have been skewed even more so.

I think atm Deron may have higher trade value only because of his name and hype but not because of his play. But Goran is the better player and on a better contract.

I would say after this season Goran will hold the higher trade value. I mean Goran hasnt even played a full season yet and didnt get the publicity that Lin did even though he played better than Lin.

Derons stock seems to be going down and Gorans seems to be going up...At this point in time a thread like this is kind of silly but I guess speaks volumes towards Gorans play that this is even a topic this early in the season.

[Trader_Joe]

This thread was linked to the Nets bored....

Just saying. Not like polling is scientific in anyway but the stats have been skewed even more so.

I think atm Deron may have higher trade value only because of his name and hype but not because of his play. But Goran is the better player and on a better contract.

I would say after this season Goran will hold the higher trade value. I mean Goran hasnt even played a full season yet and didnt get the publicity that Lin did even though he played better than Lin.

Derons stock seems to be going down and Gorans seems to be going up...At this point in time a thread like this is kind of silly but I guess speaks volumes towards Gorans play that this is even a topic this early in the season.

What do you the mean this thread was linked to the Nets board?

Also, I think this thread speak volumes more about Deron's play than Goran's.

And I disagree about Deron's hype. Deron has been playing like crap for 2 years now on the Nets. Jazz fans don't like him because he "forced out Sloan", Knick fans don't like him because he's a Net, Rose, CP3, Rondo and fans of other top PG's tend not to like him, disappointed Net fans like myself don't like him, etc. I know of no group that dislikes Dragic. If anything he had much more hype than Deron last season with his play in Houston.

Again, we're talking to an educated bunch on a specific trade section of RealGM. I don't see bias and for those offering explanations I don't see a bias other than all the Suns fans saying Dragic has more value.

[NashtyNas]

This thread was linked to the Nets bored....

Just saying. Not like polling is scientific in anyway but the stats have been skewed even more so.

I think atm Deron may have higher trade value only because of his name and hype but not because of his play. But Goran is the better player and on a better contract.

I would say after this season Goran will hold the higher trade value. I mean Goran hasnt even played a full season yet and didnt get the publicity that Lin did even though he played better than Lin.

Derons stock seems to be going down and Gorans seems to be going up...At this point in time a thread like this is kind of silly but I guess speaks volumes towards Gorans play that this is even a topic this early in the season.

What do you the mean this thread was linked to the Nets board?

Also, I think this thread speak volumes more about Deron's play than Goran's.

And I disagree about Deron's hype. Deron has been playing like crap for 2 years now on the Nets. Jazz fans don't like him because he "forced out Sloan", Knick fans don't like him because he's a Net, Rose, CP3, Rondo and fans of other top PG's tend not to like him, disappointed Net fans like myself don't like him, etc. I know of no group that dislikes Dragic. If anything he had much more hype than Deron last season with his play in Houston.

Again, we're talking to an educated bunch on a specific trade section of RealGM. I don't see bias and for those offering explanations I don't see a bias other than all the Suns fans saying Dragic has more value.

Don't generalize saying all Suns fans think Dragic has more value. We're not all dumb. However, Dragic is pretty damn valuable himself, especially due to the production he brings compared to the price which he comes at. I would consider him a bargain compared to the prices of the other point guards around the league, including Deron.

Also, I think there's no way NJ trades Deron.

[Trader_Joe]

Don't generalize saying all Suns fans think Dragic has more value. We're not all dumb. However, Dragic is pretty damn valuable himself, especially due to the production he brings compared to the price which he comes at. I would consider him a bargain compared to the prices of the other point guards around the league, including Deron.

Also, I think there's no way NJ trades Deron.

You're right, I didn't mean to type "all" (I could have said all of.. as in I think the only ones saying Dragic so far have been Suns fans), but the point is if there a bias in this thread those that tend to say Dragic has more value are Suns/Dragic fans.

And I am not saying anything about Dragic's value or play. I agree that he is a decent PG on a decent contract. But I was counteracting the statement that this thread speaks volume about this play. I think this thread says much more about Deron's play. Dragic has been touted as top 10 PG ever since his play with Houston, so I don't think he's that much of a surprise. Though, I don't think he is a top 10 PG.