James Harden is a superstar

JordansBulls · Post #941 » by **JordansBulls** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:37 am

GC Pantalones wrote:It's insane that he's still the least efficent of the top 5 scorers at 59TS and having a .55 FTR. But he's not a superstar (unless Blake Griffin and Westbrook are superstars).

You won't be a superstar until people start buying your jersey like crazy and that just isn't the case with Harden.

thizznation · Post #942 » by **thizznation** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:52 am

Backseat moderating

CKRT · Post #943 » by **CKRT** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:23 am

JordansBulls wrote:
GC Pantalones wrote:It's insane that he's still the least efficent of the top 5 scorers at 59TS and having a .55 FTR. But he's not a superstar (unless Blake Griffin and Westbrook are superstars).

You won't be a superstar until people start buying your jersey like crazy and that just isn't the case with Harden.

This makes literally zero sense.

90sAllDecade · Post #944 » by **90sAllDecade** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:47 pm

He's a superstar, he's 23, he'll continue to get better and build chemistry with his teammates.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQD1Dg4m4CA[/youtube]

OptimusOne6 · Post #945 » by **OptimusOne6** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:17 am

I'm really not sure how Harden is a bad defender. It looks like he actually gives effort on that end, so either he is just not a smart defender or he is just not physically capable of being a good one.

I don't think Harden is a superstar, but I do think he is an all-star. He is a top 15-20 player in the league, that isn't a superstar. Superstars are usually top 5-7 players in the league.

Krodis · Post #946 » by **Krodis** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:32 am

Harden is physically capable of being a good defender with his ridiculous length, but his effort waxes and wanes on that end.

90sAllDecade · Post #947 » by **90sAllDecade** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:45 am

There's some ugliness going on right now with Harden against Memphis.

I agree his defense wanes at times, but if he wins a scoring title during his career, is he a superstar regardless?

Krodis · Post #948 » by **Krodis** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:49 am

Memphis was one of the good teams Harden struggled against early in the year that some people took as proof that Harden couldn't play against good teams.

Well this game is uhh..

Yeah.

OptimusOne6 · Post #949 » by **OptimusOne6** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:50 am

Krodis wrote:Memphis was one of the good teams Harden struggled against early in the year that some people took as proof that Harden couldn't play against good teams.

Well this game is uhh..

Yeah.

They played very slow in the last game, hence why the game was so sloppy and ugly in the other game. It was more playoff like.

Tony Allen had more possessions guarding Harden in that other game while it seems like Allen wasn't even on Harden that much in this game.

Doormatt · Post #950 » by **Doormatt** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:56 am

harden is obviously capable of playing good defense. i remember in the series against the lakers last year he played really good defense against kobe for stretches at a time. however the question lies with his consistency. and i think as long as his overall impact is at a superstar level, then he is one, regardless of how he got there, whether it be offense or defense or with a combination of both. so the question is, is his offense good enough to make him a superstar right now with his defense being a zero? not sure, i would probably lean towards yes if he can keep playing this well all year.

SideshowBob · Post #951 » by **SideshowBob** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:58 am

30/5/5 on 70% TS in his last 8 games. 11.8 FTA on 16.4 FGA in that strech, a FTR of .72

Krodis · Post #952 » by **Krodis** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:12 am

I think Marcus Morris starting has done a lot of good for the Rockets in general, especially Lin and Harden.

MisterWestside · Post #953 » by **MisterWestside** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:27 am

So, Harden haters, is Harden also responsible for Lin's performance when Lin plays well? Lin has been playing at a high level since the Knicks game.

OptimusOne6 · Post #954 » by **OptimusOne6** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:30 am

MisterWestside wrote:So, Harden haters, is Harden also responsible for Lin's performance when Lin plays well? Lin has been playing at a high level since the Knicks game.

I think the coach is starting to slowly figure out how to work those two together.

I apologize earlier for blaming Harden for Lin's struggle because that isn't on Harden. Harden is just being told what to do. The fault goes on the coach more than anything for not utilizing them correctly and not calling plays that will maximize everyone's talents. However, Coach Mchale is starting to learn how to utilize both of them properly.

Coaching in basketball can be underrated.

Krodis · Post #955 » by **Krodis** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:32 am

I think partially Lin is just healthy. He looked like he had lost a step earlier in the year and that step looks back. And starting Marcus Morris is much better for floor spacing and ball movement than Patrick Patterson.

MisterWestside · Post #956 » by **MisterWestside** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:37 am

OptimusOne6 wrote:I think the coach is starting to slowly figure out how to work those two together.

I apologize earlier for blaming Harden for Lin's struggle because that isn't on Harden. Harden is just being told what to do. The fault goes on the coach more than anything for not utilizing them correctly and not calling plays that will maximize everyone's talents. However, Coach Mchale is starting to learn how to utilize both of them properly.

Coaching in basketball can be underrated.

Yep, and the underlined part is especially true.

TheChosen618 · Post #957 » by **TheChosen618** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 6:23 am

I think Harden could be argued as a superstar.

I personally think he is a top 10 player in the league. I really don't think you can name 10 players better than him.

He is right next to Russell Westbrook in the rankings, but I am inclined to give the slight edge to Russell. The reason being is that Westbrook tends to maintain his play against the upper echelon teams and defenses in the league while Harden's play drops a brick almost. The perfect example would be the 2012 Finals. Westbrook still managed to play well while Harden struggled all series.

Harden seems to struggle when the game slows down and in the 4th when defenses are more set. This is key because in the playoffs the tempo and the speed of the game slows down and teams have to start relying on execution. I don't think I trust Harden more than Westbrook when the game slows down and if I needed a go-to bucket.

Nevertheless, Harden is a heck of a player and he is only going to get better. If he isn't a superstar now, I do think he will become one. The few areas he needs to work on is his mid-range game, his off-ball game, and his defense.

Those weaknesses are the same as Lebron's weaknesses when he was younger. :wink:

In some ways, Harden reminds me a lot of Paul Pierce. Two players that get to the line and can get to the rack at will despite not being that athletic or not looking that athletic. Both Harden and Pierce look pretty slow to me, so it is incredible how those two can get to the line as much as they do despite of that.

JordansBulls · Post #958 » by **JordansBulls** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:23 pm

This was the 3rd game this season where he scored 30+ points on 15 shots or less.

Post #959 » by **UGA Hayes** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:00 pm

Houston has played better since McHale came back, which as a Kelvin Sampson hater doesn't surprise me at all. I mean Sampson first act as the temp head coach was to undercut his starting PG by playing Tony Douglas.

Post #960 » by **Vator** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:02 pm

GC Pantalones wrote:It's insane that he's still the least efficent of the top 5 scorers at 59TS and having a .55 FTR. But he's not a superstar (unless Blake Griffin and Westbrook are superstars).

After last night.

Durant .654TS
Lebron .606TS
Harden .600TS
Carmelo .590TS
Kobe .589TS

Only 3 players in the league have a usage% over 28 with a TS% of at least .600. Kevin Durant, Lebron James, and James Harden. His PER is on the rise at 22.9 which at the moment, is slightly higher than Westbrook and Wade to name a few and he is 8th in NBA in Win Shares. Not a bad start. Superstar? Maybe not yet, maybe not ever, but I think people trying to discredit him need to accept the fact that he is at the very least a true All Star caliber player at the age of 23. He is VERY good and he is proving that his success in OKC was not simply because Durant and Westbrook allowed him to thrive while being ignored or that he was humiliating poor defenseless bench players.