Trade Felton

[MaseInYourFace]

Felton is what he is. Some of you got your hopes too high and now your disappointed. He's an above average NBA starting point. He is capable of having great games but over time he regresses to his mean. For what we are paying him, he is good value. We have Kidd and Pablo there to make up for his holes. I agree he is shooting too much but that should go down a bit when Amar'e and Shump are here.

To add I think the Felton v Lin comparison are starting to get a little cliche and silly. Lin is barely in his true sophmore season in NBA, he is still a relatively unknown quantity whereas Felton is what he is. I do think many overrate Felton's D however. He is okay nothing special defensively. I find his issue is not so much height as he is stocky and can make up for that with his leg strength, his issue is he can't stay with many of the quicker guards.

[blueNorange]

felton's ability to break down the defense and get to the rim is the reason why he's useful. his shots will eventually start hitting again.

he's the not the player to start the year and he's not the player from the past 2 weeks.

[frogfood]

Nash = cancer now? LMAO this board.

[Knicker23]

He's in a funk last few games, which I think has a bit to do with his hand injuries.. I expect him to be back to the way he was earlier soon enough though.. And I think Stat will have a good influence on him doing that.

He's a solid PG.. Will battle through injuries and call himself out when he's not performing up to his own expectations. Christmas in LA would be a great place to start.

[knicksnyk]

He was able to get by Felton because the Wolves ran a lot of pick & rolls which we as a team don't do a good job of guarding. I think there's a big misconception that Felton struggles with faster guards when really it's just our PnR defense is bad which allows guards to get into the paint. Novak and JR are also victims of this. Also, the Kyrie game Iriving was hitting all kinds of tough crazy shots, Lawson ended up being shut-down in the second half of that game, Deron really didn't have that great of a game against Felton compared to what he did to Lin last year, Lin got most of his points in transition, Felton did a good job on Lin when Lin tried to iso against him, and Kemba was just on fire that game(2-4 from 3 when he was shooting 25% from 3 on the season), also Chandler's help D was awful that game.

I was just using last year as an example because Lin was playing more PG that year than he is this year. Just goes to show those quick PGs that Felton "struggles" with Lin also struggles with.

I think that goes to show how much of a liability Lin is, if they have to switch him onto spot-up shooters like Greene. Even if Nate torched the Heat one game, Lin shouldn't be getting torched by bench players. If the Rockets really are letting Harden and Douglas guard the PGs, it just goes to show how bad Lin is on defense.

your entire last paragraph is incorrect i can tell you don't really know what you are talking about. harden never guards PG's lol don't know where you got that from. and hardens defense in HOU is atrocious even worse than it was in OKC & it wasn't very good there, in fact his D is even worse than Lin's. Lin guarded spot up shooters, i think you mean danny greene because in that spurs games that you mentioned he was playing the SG position (ie the Harden role) where the PNR starts from. If you watched that spurs game that is how Houstons system runs ( PG & SG is interchangable between Lin & harden)Lin & Harden take turn playing the SG position ie running the high PNR when one runs the pnr the other spots up & shoots. in that spurs game specifically tony douglas was the de facto PG (he doesn't run the offense he just brings the ball up swings it to the SG harden or LIn) who run the PNR & douglas spots up & shoots. So douglas was on parker in that game while lin was on green because that was the position they were playing for that game. When Harden & Lin start Lin always guards the opposing PG (Conley in the most recent game) & Harden guards the SG (Tony Allen in the most recent game). Lin guarded Felton & Harden guarded Kidd in the Knicks game didn't he?

Your nate point is still wrong because nate torched the entire miami starting line up & almost torched us the other night he had 11 points on 9 shots & 2 assists in 14 minutes of play felton had 21 points on 21 shots and 3 assists in twice as many minutes of play catch the drift?? nate is like westbrook (not in talent) nobody can stop him but himself


You raised a fair point in your first paragraph but our back court namely felton & kidd need to do a better job preventing penetration. They don't need to be great at it they just need to atleast try felton in particular because he hasn't lost a step like kidd has. the fact is that felton isn't as good defensively this season as lin is he just isn't in my opinion. He doesn't defend the PNR well at all. Yes our overall team PNR defense isn't very good but felton isn't helping the situation at all. Neither is KIdd. Kidd is even worse defensively dont get me started & brewer isn't bringing anything on D like I thought he would.

[Sark]

He's in a funk last few games, which I think has a bit to do with his hand injuries.. I expect him to be back to the way he was earlier soon enough though.. And I think Stat will have a good influence on him doing that.

He's a solid PG.. Will battle through injuries and call himself out when he's not performing up to his own expectations. Christmas in LA would be a great place to start.

That funk is more like a month than a few games. If his hands are hurt, shouldn't he shoot less?



Part of the reason we are all hating on Novak lately is because Felton CAN'T break down the defense and get him open looks. Take away Felton's lobs to Tyson, and he is probably under 4 assists per game.

[nykballa2k4]

Felton is what he is. Some of you got your hopes too high and now your disappointed. He's an above average NBA starting point. He is capable of having great games but over time he regresses to his mean. For what we are paying him, he is good value. We have Kidd and Pablo there to make up for his holes. I agree he is shooting too much but that should go down a bit when Amar'e and Shump are here.

To add I think the Felton v Lin comparison are starting to get a little cliche and silly. Lin is barely in his true sophmore season in NBA, he is still a relatively unknown quantity whereas Felton is what he is. I do think many overrate Felton's D however. He is okay nothing special defensively. I find his issue is not so much height as he is stocky and can make up for that with his leg strength, his issue is he can't stay with many of the quicker guards.

Above average? I can name 10 better than him EASY. The next 10 are all fairly interchangeable.
Top 10:
Paul, Parker, Rose, Irving, Nash, Rondo, Conley, Deron , Lowry, Westbrook (10 in no order)
and if you are like me and don't count Westbrook as a point guard: Lillard, Lawson, Curry.

IMO all of those guys are w/o debate better than felton.

In the discussion with Ray is Nelson, Teague, Dragic, Lin, Calderon, Sessions, Kemba, Jennings, Holiday, Rubio

Felton is a good fit and a wonderful stop-gap, but he is no above average starting point guard.

[MaseInYourFace]

Above average don't equal all star or great it's just that above average. To me the guys you mentioned in discussion with ray are all above average.

[knicksnyk]

Here the point, make these claims once the team is near full health.

Felton didn't start the year taking 19 shots, that came with the injuries piling up.

He was taking 5 less shots in November.

I think you may not understand the difference between "serious" and "irrational".

Serious discussion is noting that this lineup isn't sustainable.

Irrational is wanting to trade a player who has helped the team win alot of it's games.

well like I said. I cant wait until amare comes back to eat up feltons FGA. & I dont want to trade ray ( I would if we could get someone better but we cant & he isn't going anywhere so i will roll with him). and just because guys aren't healthy doesnt mean felton has to shoot so much. he needs to play smarter my point all along. guys not being at full strength doesn't excuse dumb play. taking long 2's waving guys off so you can call your number & shoot fadeaways, even clyde said he needs to stop shooting. felton doesn't even look to pass anymore all the time he looks to shoot. you know what was hilarious in the minny game JR was running the point & felton was the SG. JR who consistently shoots YOLO shots was facilitating. hillarious.

[Knicker23]

He's in a funk last few games, which I think has a bit to do with his hand injuries.. I expect him to be back to the way he was earlier soon enough though.. And I think Stat will have a good influence on him doing that.

He's a solid PG.. Will battle through injuries and call himself out when he's not performing up to his own expectations. Christmas in LA would be a great place to start.

That funk is more like a month than a few games. If his hands are hurt, shouldn't he shoot less?



Part of the reason we are all hating on Novak lately is because Felton CAN'T break down the defense and get him open looks. Take away Felton's lobs to Tyson, and he is probably under 4 assists per game.

If teams are daring him to shoot, no. Being a passive PG is worse than shooting and missing open shots. I do think he should move the ball more rather than forcing if he isn't hitting, tho he has to get out of whatever he's in one way or the other.... Felton:Tyson's connection isn't something to be taken for granted either. Felton has showed w Stat and this year w Tyson he's one of the best in the league at PnR and lobs. We've seen how Tyson/Stat are w other PGs, and it ain't like it is with Felton..... I do think he needs to actively seek his own shot a little less if he's not shooting well, like now.. However if he's open he has to shoot it. Too many non playmakers like JKidd, Novak, Brewer Tyson for him to settle... Fact is, sooner he gets out of this, sooner obviously the better it is.

As bad as his shot has been the last few games, his ability to finish w a tumble at the rim has remained pretty consistent. He just needs to get that feel back.

[gavran]

So above average means top 10 for some posters? Good to know, I can finally adjust my argument.

[Thugger HBC]

Here the point, make these claims once the team is near full health.

Felton didn't start the year taking 19 shots, that came with the injuries piling up.

He was taking 5 less shots in November.

I think you may not understand the difference between "serious" and "irrational".

Serious discussion is noting that this lineup isn't sustainable.

Irrational is wanting to trade a player who has helped the team win alot of it's games.

well like I said. I cant wait until amare comes back to eat up feltons FGA. & I dont want to trade ray ( I would if we could get someone better but we cant & he isn't going anywhere so i will roll with him). and just because guys aren't healthy doesnt mean felton has to shoot so much. he needs to play smarter my point all along. guys not being at full strength doesn't excuse dumb play. taking long 2's waving guys off so you can call your number & shoot fadeaways, even clyde said he needs to stop shooting. felton doesn't even look to pass anymore all the time he looks to shoot. you know what was hilarious in the minny game JR was running the point & felton was the SG. JR who consistently shoots YOLO shots was facilitating. hillarious.

Two questions......

1)If Felton were to stop shooting as much who would you prefer to take those shots right now?

2) Are you aware that Felton reducing his shots right now would make the defense tougher on the one guy who can?

Don't know whats funny about JR running the offense, he's actually good at it.

He should have been starting since day one, and I 'd guarantee if he did, Felton wouldn't take 16 shots per game.

[Thugger HBC]

So above average means top 10 for some posters? Good to know, I can finally adjust my argument.

You've made this post more than once, I'd like to see who is calling Felton top 10 as well.

Haven't seen it yet.

[NYK Dolemite]

I'm still baffled by the OP.

The bottom line to me is that when you scream to trade a starter, you are saying that your team is deeply flawed and underperforming and needs to trade an intergral part to improve.

It's not saying 'he needs to play a little better' or 'he needs to cut down the recent bad shooting.' You don't break up a team's starting unit unless you see a problem that needs fixing -- I mean unless you are posting knee-jerk foolish reactions.

So, I'd like to ask OP exactly what he or she thinks the team's record 'should' be after 27 games with a presumably far better PG that he'd acquire?

You think the Knicks would be what, 24-3 except for terrible PG play? 22-5? I'm just struggling here with what a 'TRADEEEEEEE' thread is going to practically accomplish.

Anyone who had the Knicks at better than 20-7 at this point is an incredible optimist.

A couple of points from the thread. Why did the 'He only sets up for Chandler' criticism spring up? Melo makes his own shots, Kidd is a facilitator and I don't WANT anyone ever setting Brewer up for ANYTHING except a benching (which, btw I'll never understand how a team with a 'garbage' PG and Brewer is playing > .700 ball).

Also, Chandler is shooting 71 percent which, to me, means he's being set up extraordinarily. Again, this is huge given the fact that STAT is the other Knick (besides Novak) who needs active setting up -- and we've already seen Raymond excel at that particular pairing.

Strange OP followed by the predictable Lin-centric replies.

Bottom line. Team is top 2 in the East without Shumpert and without STAT.

This is the last team in the league that ought to be considering moving a starter (unless it's Brewer to the D - League).

I suspected this was going to circle back to Lin. The best post -- that we need to hold ownership 'accountable' for the Lin deal -- accountable for .700+ ball without 40% of its starting rotation means what ???? Throwing parties for Grunwald? Everyone buying J.D. and the Straight Shot albums?

SMH.

I've only been here 2 and half years and so, but it is still saying something that this is the worst, least sensible 'serious' thread I've seen here.

Got to say Lin fans are pieces of work, btw. Trapped in the closet all season until their hero plays 3 good games and wham! here they are.

Bad stuff reigning all through this thread.

Sorry for the long rant, but this thread manages to have everything I hate about some Knicks fans and most Lin fans in one thread.

[gavran]

So above average means top 10 for some posters? Good to know, I can finally adjust my argument.

You've made this post more than once, I'd like to see who is calling Felton top 10 as well.

Haven't seen it yet.

No, I haven't, this is the first time I made this post, and no one called Felton (well, no credible poster) top 10, it isn't what I'm saying. I was ridiculing the idea that Felton isn't an above average PG, because there are 10-15 guys better than him.

[spree2kawhi]

all the greedy haters should be ashamed of themselves.

[Thugger HBC]

Yup, the OP stated felton is holding the team back.

So I guess we should be better than 20-7 according to the OP.

[JustaKnickFan]

He was able to get by Felton because the Wolves ran a lot of pick & rolls which we as a team don't do a good job of guarding. I think there's a big misconception that Felton struggles with faster guards when really it's just our PnR defense is bad which allows guards to get into the paint. Novak and JR are also victims of this. Also, the Kyrie game Iriving was hitting all kinds of tough crazy shots, Lawson ended up being shut-down in the second half of that game, Deron really didn't have that great of a game against Felton compared to what he did to Lin last year, Lin got most of his points in transition, Felton did a good job on Lin when Lin tried to iso against him, and Kemba was just on fire that game(2-4 from 3 when he was shooting 25% from 3 on the season), also Chandler's help D was awful that game.

I was just using last year as an example because Lin was playing more PG that year than he is this year. Just goes to show those quick PGs that Felton "struggles" with Lin also struggles with.

I think that goes to show how much of a liability Lin is, if they have to switch him onto spot-up shooters like Greene. Even if Nate torched the Heat one game, Lin shouldn't be getting torched by bench players. If the Rockets really are letting Harden and Douglas guard the PGs, it just goes to show how bad Lin is on defense.

your entire last paragraph is incorrect i can tell you don't really know what you are talking about. harden never guards PG's lol don't know where you got that from. and hardens defense in HOU is atrocious even worse than it was in OKC & it wasn't very good there, in fact his D is even worse than Lin's. Lin guarded spot up shooters, i think you mean danny greene because in that spurs games that you mentioned he was playing the SG position (ie the Harden role) where the PNR starts from. If you watched that spurs game that is how Houstons system runs ( PG & SG is interchangable between Lin & harden)Lin & Harden take turn playing the SG position ie running the high PNR when one runs the pnr the other spots up & shoots. in that spurs game specifically tony douglas was the de facto PG (he doesn't run the offense he just brings the ball up swings it to the SG harden or LIn) who run the PNR & douglas spots up & shoots. So douglas was on parker in that game while lin was on green because that was the position they were playing for that game. When Harden & Lin start Lin always guards the opposing PG (Conley in the most recent game) & Harden guards the SG (Tony Allen in the most recent game). Lin guarded Felton & Harden guarded Kidd in the Knicks game didn't he?

Your nate point is still wrong because nate torched the entire miami starting line up & almost torched us the other night he had 11 points on 9 shots & 2 assists in 14 minutes of play felton had 21 points on 21 shots and 3 assists in twice as many minutes of play catch the drift?? nate is like westbrook (not in talent) nobody can stop him but himself


You raised a fair point in your first paragraph but our back court namely felton & kidd need to do a better job preventing penetration. They don't need to be great at it they just need to atleast try felton in particular because he hasn't lost a step like kidd has. the fact is that felton isn't as good defensively this season as lin is he just isn't in my opinion. He doesn't defend the PNR well at all. Yes our overall team PNR defense isn't very good but felton isn't helping the situation at all. Neither is KIdd. Kidd is even worse defensively dont get me started & brewer isn't bringing anything on D like I thought he would.

Yeah I got confused in the first paragraph, meant to just say TD. Also, I just assumed that since Lin was guarding Greene there that the Rockets realize he is bad on defense so they try to mask it. Since I don't follow the Rockets, I can't say a lot about Lin or the team this year. However, last year Lin showed that he just doesn't have the lateral quickness to keep up with NBA PGs, which isn't something you can fix in the offseason. Here are just some examples of crappy Lin D.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxloD5U3tms&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

Even if Nate is the only one who can stop himself, it's nice when you have a bad defender guarding you and you can get good looks at the basket.

I agree there, Brewer has definitely lost a step. Kidd's only saving grace on D is that he can guard the bigger guards well like Joe Johnson when he wants to post up. Even if Felton struggles to guard the PnR, that's something every guard has trouble with. At least Felton can stay in front of most PGs if there's no screen there, something Lin cannot do.

[Thugger HBC]

So above average means top 10 for some posters? Good to know, I can finally adjust my argument.

You've made this post more than once, I'd like to see who is calling Felton top 10 as well.

Haven't seen it yet.

No, I haven't, this is the first time I made this post, and no one called Felton (well, no credible poster) top 10, it isn't what I'm saying. I was ridiculing the idea that Felton isn't an above average PG, because there are 10-15 guys better than him.

Oh, ok, you just made it up then, because I was willing to be right beside you if someone actually was saying top 10, and above average pg.

But really though, even if he is average, does it really matter?

Sometimes a players value is what they are on the team they are currently on.

He is above average in that respect, half of the starters in this league currently cannot do what we need Felton to do.

You've already given that felton is a good fit, so what really is the issue?

[knicksnyk]

[
Two questions......

1)If Felton were to stop shooting as much who would you prefer to take those shots right now?

2) Are you aware that Felton reducing his shots right now would make the defense tougher on the one guy who can?

Don't know whats funny about JR running the offense, he's actually good at it.

He should have been starting since day one, and I 'd guarantee if he did, Felton wouldn't take 16 shots per game.

1) for one felton could run the PNR a little bit more with tyson, some teams are really good at stopping that so if felton has to shoot why not attack the basket for a more efficient shot or shoot a 3 as opposed to a 2 or a fadeaway, or pass to Kidd or Novak or JR etc

2) he can still take smarter shots attack the basket take 3's run the pnr game. if his shots aren't falling do other things, be more aggreisve on defense, actively hunt for rebounds, rack up steals etc. Look at what JR did in the last game he had like 6 rebounds 4 assists and 16 points. the previous game a double double. felton needs to be more versatile & impact the game in multiple ways aside from just shooting.

3) nothing is funny with JR running the offense the fact that he does a better job at it than felton is hilarious. in the minny game JR was actually looking to run the offense whereas felton was shooting & shooting & shooting

I am more than willing to admit that I was wrong on a few things this summer, JR is one of them he has been so good for us & Kidd is another aside from his defense his impact on the team is huge. but felton has been what i expected of him, very meh.