Why do we struggle when Lebron is on bench?

[cb1]

We're the Cavs now? Those LeBron fans don't hold anything back to prop their boy up. The Cavs were never in our league talent wise. They were a good regular season team with their very good roleplayers to surround LeBron, but they never had the talent which could turn it on in the playoffs the way we did. The problem in the playoffs for them was, they depended so much on LeBron initiating their offense that it was too much for one guy to handle it all against teams with several star caliber players on their team. When it comes down to it, talent will beat you in a close game.

The reason we beat teams now isn't necessarily because we play better basketball. It's because we have players on our team who are above the rest. That's the reason Indiana couldn't beat us despite Bosh being out. That's the reason we've beaten Boston two years in a row even though they probably executed better than us. That's something those Cavs teams never could do. Mo Williams, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, JJ Hickson etc. were all very good role players, some even borderline all-stars at some point, but they weren't game changers a la Wade or Bosh.

With that being said, don't come in here and blow little problems out of proportion by pretending we're in deep s***. We're the defending champs, we've been to the Finals two years in a row and we have one of the best records in the league.

Some of the same traits that you are describing with those cavs teams is being exhibited on this team as well. I don't think it's far fetched to say that Lebron carries a ridiculously heavy load for this team as well and even sometimes when he does, we lose those games which is the scary part. Nobody is disputing the talent that we have but we also acknowledge that Wade and Bosh sometimes aren't being utilized properly. It makes no sense that when both of them are on the floor together without Lebron, we struggle to score. As talented as this team is in three positions, we're extremely vulnerable in two positions that are essential in basketball and Lebron is being asked to be Mr Do It All to cover up the flaws at those positions. For a team so talented, they sure have to work awfully hard to beat good or great teams. This isn't a Lebron prop up thread, it's a thread to recognize how constructed the offense is to suit Lebron's talents and that at this rate that Lebron is being utilized, he will likely wear down.

[cb1]

I think you make a lot of good points. Somehow, some way, this team has become just about as reliant on James as the Cavs were, and especially this year when the reins have been completely turned over to him. This team is deeply flawed but James somehow masks those flaws. We could easily be 17-11 or 16-12 right now. The frightening thing is that the Big Three have played well or even really well in our losses.

Thats why he should his 4th MVP this year but you know the Media would likely vote CP3, Melo, Durant ahead of him.

He should be working on his 6th straight MVP this season in all honesty.

I'm really dissapointed with the failure to use Bosh effectively. He has shown that he has a diverse offensive game but all we use him for is 18 ft. jumpshots. We've had plenty of positive match-ups with Bosh facing up and sometimes in the post on the right side of the land where he can go left with that hook. We just haven't given him the ball when he has those match-ups to at least draw fouls. The problem is that the opportunity cost of giving Bosh thd ball is that Bron and Wade aren't getting it. Now he's not even rebounding.

Agree

[EscapoTHB]

Do we actually struggle that much? And don't most teams get worse when the best player in the game takes a seat. Even team Usa struggled when bron sat. You just cant replace what he does on the floor. But wade and bosh are about as good as you could hope to do.

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[DWadeno3]

We're the Cavs now? Those LeBron fans don't hold anything back to prop their boy up. The Cavs were never in our league talent wise. They were a good regular season team with their very good roleplayers to surround LeBron, but they never had the talent which could turn it on in the playoffs the way we did. The problem in the playoffs for them was, they depended so much on LeBron initiating their offense that it was too much for one guy to handle it all against teams with several star caliber players on their team. When it comes down to it, talent will beat you in a close game.

The reason we beat teams now isn't necessarily because we play better basketball. It's because we have players on our team who are above the rest. That's the reason Indiana couldn't beat us despite Bosh being out. That's the reason we've beaten Boston two years in a row even though they probably executed better than us. That's something those Cavs teams never could do. Mo Williams, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, JJ Hickson etc. were all very good role players, some even borderline all-stars at some point, but they weren't game changers a la Wade or Bosh.

With that being said, don't come in here and blow little problems out of proportion by pretending we're in deep s***. We're the defending champs, we've been to the Finals two years in a row and we have one of the best records in the league.

Some of the same traits that you are describing with those cavs teams is being exhibited on this team as well. I don't think it's far fetched to say that Lebron carries a ridiculously heavy load for this team as well and even sometimes when he does, we lose those games which is the scary part. Nobody is disputing the talent that we have but we also acknowledge that Wade and Bosh sometimes aren't being utilized properly. It makes no sense that when both of them are on the floor together without Lebron, we struggle to score. As talented as this team is in three positions, we're extremely vulnerable in two positions that are essential in basketball and Lebron is being asked to be Mr Do It All to cover up the flaws at those positions. For a team so talented, they sure have to work awfully hard to beat good or great teams. This isn't a Lebron prop up thread, it's a thread to recognize how constructed the offense is to suit Lebron's talents and that at this rate that Lebron is being utilized, he will likely wear down.

You're saying exactly what I meant though, but one idiot said we're as reliant on James as the Cavs were and that we're deeply flawed, which is simply not true. There may be better ways to utilize D-Wade and CB, but the difference is, we have D-Wade and CB who can come in and give you a superstar performance in a big game. So no, this team isn't deeply flawed, it's just not playing to its full strength. Maybe I misunderstood him, but I hate it when people completely tear our team apart over a couple of losses.

[Pimpwerx]

Do we actually struggle that much? And don't most teams get worse when the best player in the game takes a seat. Even team Usa struggled when bron sat. You just cant replace what he does on the floor. But wade and bosh are about as good as you could hope to do.

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Good question, because our offense is still 3rd ranked, IIRC. It's the best offense we've had in the Big3 era. I'm not sure if a lot of that was frontloaded by our early season Phoenix Suns mode, but we'll see. I just know that when Joel is in there, we hit those scoring droughts we used to see the last two seasons. It could just be confirmation bias on my part. PEACE.

[homecourtloss]

This is because we have no center. Get a f'in center it is by far the most important position!!!!!!!!! Our team has to work 3 times harder even with Lebron Bosh and Wade because we have no center. Lebron had to go in god mode last playoffs and lead us back from 3 series deficits because we have no center. Get us a center and we get 66+ wins easily.

This is true. Get a center who defends and rebounds and LBJ and others don't have to run around expending more energy than other stars for other teams rebounding, trapping, catching up with their respective match-ups after the doubles, etc. Imagine Wade and James out on the break after a big rebounds and outlets instead of Wade and James expending all of their energy just getting rebounds; this team would be a nightmare to go up against and 66 wins seem likely.

The amount of energy James expended last season on defense and offense and then in the playoffs doesn't seem sustainable. We played differently against OKC as far as effort and intensity are concerned, but it's just not sustainable for James and others to play that way all season long. Spo and Riley know this and are trying to get us out of the regular season with a 1 seed but not using up all the energy and reserve in the process. The big problem is that a lot of teams feel that they can play and beat us in a variety of ways and they'll have that same confidence in the playoffs.

[cb1]

We're the Cavs now? Those LeBron fans don't hold anything back to prop their boy up. The Cavs were never in our league talent wise. They were a good regular season team with their very good roleplayers to surround LeBron, but they never had the talent which could turn it on in the playoffs the way we did. The problem in the playoffs for them was, they depended so much on LeBron initiating their offense that it was too much for one guy to handle it all against teams with several star caliber players on their team. When it comes down to it, talent will beat you in a close game.

The reason we beat teams now isn't necessarily because we play better basketball. It's because we have players on our team who are above the rest. That's the reason Indiana couldn't beat us despite Bosh being out. That's the reason we've beaten Boston two years in a row even though they probably executed better than us. That's something those Cavs teams never could do. Mo Williams, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, JJ Hickson etc. were all very good role players, some even borderline all-stars at some point, but they weren't game changers a la Wade or Bosh.

With that being said, don't come in here and blow little problems out of proportion by pretending we're in deep s***. We're the defending champs, we've been to the Finals two years in a row and we have one of the best records in the league.

Some of the same traits that you are describing with those cavs teams is being exhibited on this team as well. I don't think it's far fetched to say that Lebron carries a ridiculously heavy load for this team as well and even sometimes when he does, we lose those games which is the scary part. Nobody is disputing the talent that we have but we also acknowledge that Wade and Bosh sometimes aren't being utilized properly. It makes no sense that when both of them are on the floor together without Lebron, we struggle to score. As talented as this team is in three positions, we're extremely vulnerable in two positions that are essential in basketball and Lebron is being asked to be Mr Do It All to cover up the flaws at those positions. For a team so talented, they sure have to work awfully hard to beat good or great teams. This isn't a Lebron prop up thread, it's a thread to recognize how constructed the offense is to suit Lebron's talents and that at this rate that Lebron is being utilized, he will likely wear down.

You're saying exactly what I meant though, but one idiot said we're as reliant on James as the Cavs were and that we're deeply flawed, which is simply not true. There may be better ways to utilize D-Wade and CB, but the difference is, we have D-Wade and CB who can come in and give you a superstar performance in a big game. So no, this team isn't deeply flawed, it's just not playing to its full strength. Maybe I misunderstood him, but I hate it when people completely tear our team apart over a couple of losses.

Ok i agree with this

[ThePersianFreak]

it's because when LeBron's on the bench, Wade's there too !
we need to start 2th quarter with Bosh and Wade on the floor.

[EscapoTHB]

it's because when LeBron's on the bench, Wade's there too !
we need to start 2th quarter with Bosh and Wade on the floor.

We are trying to manage wades minutes.

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[ThePersianFreak]

it's because when LeBron's on the bench, Wade's there too !
we need to start 2th quarter with Bosh and Wade on the floor.

We are trying to manage wades minutes.

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you're absolutely right
i meant if we play wade at the start of second quarter (like we do in the playoffs) , we will be fine

[Voice_of_Reason]

With our 2 biggest weapons on the bench, running Miller and Allen off screens isn't creating anything. Occasionally they get a shot, but often it results in those 2 trying to create for others, or themselves, which isn't going to result in a lot of good looks. I'd rather turn it over to Cole/Bosh pick n roll/pick n pop and see what happens. At the moment Cole it setting those down screens for Allen/Miller, like Chalmers does for LeBron, but the playing coming off isn't anywhere as near dangerous.

[Chosen01]

Are people blind? Wade is on the bench as much as long as Lebron is, they usually come back together. So it's no surprise why Heat struggle with their two best players on the bench.

What Spo needs to do is start Wade with Bosh in the 2nd quarter like he used to.

[Zasterror]

What Spo needs to do is start Wade with Bosh in the 2nd quarter like he used to.

This x1000

Spo acts like Wade can't play a full quarter anymore

[Flash4thewin]

What Spo needs to do is start Wade with Bosh in the 2nd quarter like he used to.

This x1000

Spo acts like Wade can't play a full quarter anymore

Wade is not some old man out there, hes an elite player who should have no problem playing a full quarter. One of Wade or Lebron should be on the court at all times since no one else can create. Again its simple stuff like this that make people question the competency of Spo and his coaching skills.

[EscapoTHB]

What Spo needs to do is start Wade with Bosh in the 2nd quarter like he used to.

This x1000

Spo acts like Wade can't play a full quarter anymore

Wade is not some old man out there, hes an elite player who should have no problem playing a full quarter. One of Wade or Lebron should be on the court at all times since no one else can create. Again its simple stuff like this that make people question the competency of Spo and his coaching skills.

Ugh. Did you see last years playoffs? Wade was wrecked. Bee need to be careful with him until he proves he can stay healthy

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