Mar$WAG Brooks

[vincecarter4pres]

# Mar$wag

This is one where I'd usually start throwing some humorous insulting one liners towards our Bulls troll friend, but I'm such a MarShon hater that I love this post.

[Keith Van Horn]

So Marshon is on the block according to reports?

What do we think he can net us?

[vincecarter4pres]

So Marshon is on the block according to reports?

What do we think he can net us?

I think it depends where we're looking to go.

Maybe he's part of a package with picks and big salary for a star big where he's just a decent piece of a quantity over quality deal, or maybe something like him and Hump for Nene that has been discussed at length, or him and Tele for Matthews.

Something in that vein.

[REGG-G-UNIT]

A huge part of player development is having tough love, getting rid of a players poor habits, having them work on these things in practice. and drilling it into their skull that playing poor basketball is not acceptable.

That's one school of thought, most recent successful coaching philosophies at the NBA and college basketball level have revolved around breaking a player down and then building them back up.

Avery has always shown that he can do one or the other, not both and that's just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to what is wrong with his coaching style...

the only dimension he brings then no other wing player does is an extremely low basketball IQ.

That is the popular narrative, which includes some elements of truth but also leaves out other important points, such as how Brooks is the only Nets wing off the bench who can get to the rim / free throw line, score from the post, or create off the dribble.

Fouls: His fouls are really bad. its one of the worst parts of his game. He is capable of playing defense without fouling, but he doesnt. and the fouls he commits are such low IQ fouls. fouling with under 3 seconds left on the shotclock for a player who is outside the paint. weak foul from behind on a fast break giving the opponent and and1. fouls 90 feet from the hoop when the opponent is the bonus. those things dont show up in the box score or advanced stats -- but they are a huge part of why he isnt on the floor much.

There's a certain awkardness when Brooks is on defense, when he's moving laterally he's not very fluid... I know the 90 foot plays you're talking about and if we want to talk statistically they don't happen often (and are far less in occurrence than the ones where Stackhouse is blown by and is forced to give a foul sending his man to the line). It's just when they do happen they are frustrating and make you throw your hands up in disgust.

The point I was simply making is this. If you break down the film, look at the stats, etc. There are certain situations where Marshon is a bad defender, while there are others where Stackhouse is an atrocious defender.

If we're going to criticize Marshon fine, some of the points you made I wholeheartedly agree with. But why aren't the same criticisms that are applied to Marshon applied to Avery's pet Stackhouse who ranks as one of the worst pick-and-roll defenders on the team and who as the season has progressed has begun to close out later and later on opposing shooters...

When Stackhouse is blwon by as his man attacks the rim, and he commits a hard fouls announcers like to term the play as Stackhouse showing his "veteran savvy" but at the truth of the matter is that it's just bad defense made a little less bad by not giving up an automatic two points...

Ball movement: He is a ball stopper. and in a really bad way. he isnt just a chucker, he will take it, run the clock down, and then force himself into taking a tough shot late in the clock.

You're describing Andray Blatche right? Because that's exactly what he does, except he has an infinite-use get-out-of-jail-free card with Avery Johnson...

[walah123]

Marshon brooks and telovic will net you jodie meeks, jordan hill, ebanks and sacre from the lakers.

Sincerely,

Santa clause from los angeles

[Marvin Martian]

I don't know how someone can defend brooks not getting playing time anymore. Joe Johnson continues to put up subpar numbers on a max contract. Brooks can easily match those numbers on a rookie contract. The Nets should have gotten a better PF and have Brooks start at SG.

[vincecarter4pres]

I don't know how someone can defend brooks not getting playing time anymore. Joe Johnson continues to put up subpar numbers on a max contract. Brooks can easily match those numbers on a rookie contract. The Nets should have gotten a better PF and have Brooks start at SG.

LOL, how can someone watch MarShon and come to the conclusions you are?

That's not even to defend OO, but MarShon is... yuck.

[jeff1624]

I don't know how someone can defend brooks not getting playing time anymore. Joe Johnson continues to put up subpar numbers on a max contract. Brooks can easily match those numbers on a rookie contract. The Nets should have gotten a better PF and have Brooks start at SG.

LOL, how can someone watch MarShon and come to the conclusions you are?

That's not even to defend OO, but MarShon is... yuck.

Joe Johnson on a 5-15 shooting night contributes more to the team than Marshon could on a good night.

I've actually come to love Joe Johnson. He's grossly overpaid, isn't a 1st option and is streaky as hell, but his presence alone opens up the floor for Lopez. There's a reason why Lopez isn't getting double teamed nearly as often.

Marshon is a one dimensional chucker that ruins the flow anytime he steps on the court.

Trade his ass already.

[vincecarter4pres]

Bingo.

[Marvin Martian]

I don't know how someone can defend brooks not getting playing time anymore. Joe Johnson continues to put up subpar numbers on a max contract. Brooks can easily match those numbers on a rookie contract. The Nets should have gotten a better PF and have Brooks start at SG.

LOL, how can someone watch MarShon and come to the conclusions you are?

That's not even to defend OO, but MarShon is... yuck.

Joe Johnson on a 5-15 shooting night contributes more to the team than Marshon could on a good night.

I've actually come to love Joe Johnson. He's grossly overpaid, isn't a 1st option and is streaky as hell, but his presence alone opens up the floor for Lopez. There's a reason why Lopez isn't getting double teamed nearly as often.

Marshon is a one dimensional chucker that ruins the flow anytime he steps on the court.

Trade his ass already.

This is about value. Joe Johnson putting up 16 PPG when other players can do the same for less is not how to manage a team.

You talk about Joe Johnson's presence and yet the Nets are barely above .500 for the year. We would be better off with a productive player at the 4, than wasting millions of dollars on JJ

[therealbig3]

Marshon was absolute horse **** today. I'd actually say he was our worst player, including Blatche or Deron. I don't care about his garbage time buckets, he always seems to score those...what was he doing when we let a pretty evenly played 1st quarter result in a 9 point lead? That's right, he was turning it over and committing stupid fouls and sending their players to the FT line unnecessarily and killing the offensive flow and taking horrible shots.

What was he doing in that 3rd quarter when the game became a laugher? That's right, the same things he was doing in the 1st quarter. He came in at the 3:29 mark of the 3rd quarter, and we were already down 24 points at that point, but you know what, we could have chipped away the lead and maybe made it a 20 point game, or even lower, and tried to make some incredible run in the 4th quarter, or at least try and make it somewhat respectable. Marshon plays **** defense and goes 0-4 with 2 TOs as the Spurs outscore us 12-3.

Absolutely no reason for Marshon to play, I fully endorse giving his minutes to Stackhouse and Bogans. Marshon sucks. No way in hell could he do what JJ does. JJ's shot selection isn't great, but it's worlds better than Brooks. He's a far more versatile offensive player. He's a far better shooter. He's a far smarter player. He's a far better defender. JJ's efficiency is a little low, but outside of that, he's actually done everything we expected of him...he's hitting 3s, he's playing in the post, he's been a solid secondary scoring option, he runs the point capably, and he's playing good defense. Would like to see him hit a higher percentage of his shots, because he still misses a decent amount of wide open looks, but he actually hasn't been bad.

[Marvin Martian]

Marshon was absolute horse **** today. I'd actually say he was our worst player, including Blatche or Deron. I don't care about his garbage time buckets, he always seems to score those...what was he doing when we let a pretty evenly played 1st quarter result in a 9 point lead? That's right, he was turning it over and committing stupid fouls and sending their players to the FT line unnecessarily and killing the offensive flow and taking horrible shots.

What was he doing in that 3rd quarter when the game became a laugher? That's right, the same things he was doing in the 1st quarter. He came in at the 3:29 mark of the 3rd quarter, and we were already down 24 points at that point, but you know what, we could have chipped away the lead and maybe made it a 20 point game, or even lower, and tried to make some incredible run in the 4th quarter, or at least try and make it somewhat respectable. Marshon plays **** defense and goes 0-4 with 2 TOs as the Spurs outscore us 12-3.

Absolutely no reason for Marshon to play, I fully endorse giving his minutes to Stackhouse and Bogans. Marshon sucks. No way in hell could he do what JJ does. JJ's shot selection isn't great, but it's worlds better than Brooks. He's a far more versatile offensive player. He's a far better shooter. He's a far smarter player. He's a far better defender. JJ's efficiency is a little low, but outside of that, he's actually done everything we expected of him...he's hitting 3s, he's playing in the post, he's been a solid secondary scoring option, he runs the point capable, and he's playing good defense. Would like to see him hit a higher percentage of his shots, because he still misses a decent amount of wide open looks, but he actually hasn't been bad.

Again. Max contract. Role player numbers. I don't why you are complaining about defense when this team is in the bottom half in defensive efficiency with Brooks playing spot minutes.

[jeff1624]

Joe Johnson's contract will continue to exist even if Marshon gets more playing time (which he doesn't deserve)... so your argument makes little to no sense.

[Marvin Martian]

Joe Johnson's contract will continue to exist even if Marshon gets more playing time (which he doesn't deserve)... so your argument makes little to no sense.

My post was more on hindsight rather than future roster moves. Still, being barely over .500 and looking at a first round exit at the end of the season, playing Brooks doesn't really that hurt that much considering that he has room to grow and JJ doesn't. Or that the team is still in the bottom half on defensive efficiency with him barely playing and JJ playing 35+ mins. Or that we may not have the personnel to be true contenders and are just driving down his trade value, restricting our ability to get a high caliber PF in a combo package with Hump.

[therealbig3]

VC4P said it best...the BEST case scenario for Brooks is to be a poor man's Jamal Crawford, and that's if he significantly improves his game. Stop acting like he's some unrecognized talent that's being held back. He's being held back for good reason.

And it's not just about the numbers, it's the way they get their numbers. You're saying JJ's production is replaceable by Brooks if he got more playing time...which is really not true, since even if Brooks gets those numbers, he'll do it at the expense of the team. JJ gets his numbers within the flow of the offense.

And btw, mentioning our poor DRating without Brooks playing much...is that supposed to be a point in his favor? We'd drop from 20th to 25th or worse if Brooks took JJ's playing time.

[REGG-G-UNIT]

I would never advocate playing Brooks over Johnson but the Stackhouse experiment really needs to end. On both offense and defense Stackhouse gets stuck in one spot on the floor and is failing to contribute anything positive for much of the game.

I know Stackhouse is being made out to be this kind of "three-point sniper" for us this year but he's never been a good three-point shooter... His 35% from three this year is the second best of his career.

Generally Brooks has been moving better without the ball this year, and is passing it at a better rate as well. There's still a problem of him deciding to shoot and the ball just sticking to his hands once that happens, and an unwillingness on his end to catch-and-shoot.

The drives to the rim have been encouraging, but there's a bit of Terrence Williams-ism in a lot of his moves in that he's not making straight-line attacks to the rim, he's curling or pulling up short and shooting a floater (which for the most part have not been falling this year).

Defensively, the dumb fouls have begun to manifest themselves again, but it's hard to judge him much more than that as he hasn't been on the court that much (activity level has slightly increased again, steals, blocks, etc.)...

[vincecarter4pres]

Yes, Stack needs his minutes pulled back heavily, but MarShon is so bad.

Problem is, there isn't necessarily a good solution on this roster. I would prefer if we figured a way to get Tele and Ty on the floor more in place of him. Go small if needed. Go big if needed. Taylor can certainly play the 2. So can Watson. I know Watson has sucked as well and people hate to see him out there with Deron, but if they're out there together, let CJ strictly play the 2.

IDK. Truthfully there is not true answer right now. The roster is fatally flawed. Moves need to be made all over the place, from a big one to get a huge upgrade at the starting 4 to some small moves for real deal backup wings including a legit big minute 6xth man.

But why can't we see some lineups such as?:

Deron
Ty
Wallace
Tele
Evans

Ty
Bogans
JJ
Wallace
Tele

Deron
Ty
Bogans
Tele
Lopez

Ty
JJ
Wallace
Evans
Tele

???

We're not winning against good teams and we're doing alright against awful teams recently anyway. Our win total is not reflecting our talent. At the same time we're also losing games we shouldn't be.

The staff needs to stop acting like they can't experiment with the units and rotations because they can't afford to risk losing. They are losing anyway. They are not putting this team in the best position to win anyway, something needs to give.

What about Toko?

Why not play an energy guy? Scared he's too inexperienced and will make boneheaded plays/turnovers/fouls? Well that's exactly what the likes of MarShon, Watson, Blatche, Hump and Stack are doing anyway...

[N Ireland Nets]

We need to work out how valuable Toko, Teletovic & Taylor are before we makes moves around Jan 15th.

It would just like use to trade one of these three as throw in's along with Hump for a PF only to have them blow up & look good.

Another note, we need to look to bring in a decent backup SF because Wallace is going to be out injured often for us.

Maybe two possible deals:

Nene & Ariza for Hump, Tele, Brooks & Stack which would save the Wizards a ton of money.

Or

IIyasova & Mbah a Moute for Hump, Brooks.

Just trying to work out possible deals to bring in a SF at the same time as a decent PF.