Monroe will go before Detroit can contend

[OneBadMutha]

It's too late for Detroit to ever hope to compete as an elite level offensive team. They have no shot at getting an offensive Superstar to build around that you need to have a consistent elite offense. Therefore if they are ever going to have a hope in heck of contending against the likes of Lebron, Durant, and Rose, they need to follow the path of the way the Pistons contended against Kobe and Shaq.

Detroit took a major step-back early in 2003/04 with Memo starting in place of Cliff Robison. It wasn't until they traded for Sheed that they became the best defensive team again. Having a great one on one big man defender allowed Ben to roam and wreck havoc. Sheed guarded the likes of Kenyon Martin, Jermaine O'Neal, and Karl Malone with no help allowing Ben to play passing lanes, trap hard on the perimeter, and contend everything at the basket. Detroit won with an average at best offense.

Drummond is Detroit's best hope at being relevant again. That hope hinges on him having an elite level defensive impact on the game leading Detroit back to having the best defense in the league. By having to cover for a poor, slow defender at the 4, it directs too many resources away from helping defend the basket from perimeter slashers. No matter how good your perimeter defenders are in today's NBA, they need the help of bigs due to lack of handchecking. It's possible to guard the post one on one but near impossible to shut down the perimeter when left on an island....not to mention it's a pick and roll league.

But the bottom line is that it's near impossible to have the best defense in the league if one of your two starting bigs is one of the worst defenders at his position...regardless of how good the other big is.

On the other end, Monroe's inability to hit even a mid-range jump shot clogs things up and subtracts the spacing needed for Drummond to take advantage of his length and athletic ability in space on offense.

In other words, Drummond, not Monroe, is Detroit's best prospect and he's the guy the Pistons need to worry about building around. Keeping Monroe and having Drummond cover his butt only makes sense if Monroe is a centerpiece on a top offensive team.

That's not to hate on Monroe. Monroe has potential to play a Vlade Divac like role at center for a good team. If he gets stronger, he can be adequate defending 5's due to his basketball IQ and quick hands. He can get stronger to improve defensively at the 5 but he can't get quicker or more athletic to improve his atrocious ability to keep up with athletic bigs or defend in space. He was Detroit's center of the future until they found a better option at center. His value is lessoned as a power forward. Getting something good for Monroe while replacing him with a good one on one defender is the best way for Detroit to maximize their best assets.

[rmfc]

^Excellent post. Kudos to you for being bold enough to talk about the elephant in the room.

"Drummond is Detroit's best hope at being relevant again. That hope hinges on him having an elite level defensive impact on the game leading Detroit back to having the best defense in the league. By having to cover for a poor, slow defender at the 4, it directs too many resources away from helping defend the basket from perimeter slashers."

I was going to post about this in the other thread. Unless Monroe becomes Chris Webber on offense(which becomes a way to compensate his lack of D), his horrendous defense is going to create huge problems for the whole team. For the '04 Pistons to become elite... even the super-awesome Ben Wallace needed Rasheed's elite one-on-one defense in the post.

Drummond should be the corner-stone of the franchise and Joe (or whomever the GM is going to be) needs to build the team around him. No one outside of Drummond should be untouchable.

[ComboGuardCity]

Cool story bro.


Monroe is 22. He'll learn to hit a jump shot. Oh and btw, the monroe/dre tandem sports the 5th best defense in the league.

[princeofpalace]

Cool story bro.


Monroe is 22. He'll learn to hit a jump shot. Oh and btw, the monroe/dre tandem sports the 5th best defense in the league.

This!

Additionally, Dwight Howards Magic team went to the Finals and not a single starter on that team aside from Dwight played a lick of defense. They didnt win it all, but they were close with better cap management they couldve won it all.

[vege]

Cool story bro.


Monroe is 22. He'll learn to hit a jump shot. Oh and btw, the monroe/dre tandem sports the 5th best defense in the league.

I don't agree with you too often but I couldn't have said better myself.

[ComboGuardCity]

Let's also realize Drummond will not be ben wallace on offense. He'll be a force to be reckoned with. Ben was undersized and didn't have ball skills.

[OneBadMutha]

Cool story bro.


Monroe is 22. He'll learn to hit a jump shot. Oh and btw, the monroe/dre tandem sports the 5th best defense in the league.

This!

Additionally, Dwight Howards Magic team went to the Finals and not a single starter on that team aside from Dwight played a lick of defense. They didnt win it all, but they were close with better cap management they couldve won it all.

1) They complimented Dwight offensively by spacing the floor for him offensively.

2) Dwight had one good run in him his entire career.

3) Despite Dwight being one of the leagues best help defenders and rebounders, his Orlando teams were not consistent in the playoffs due to their defense. They built around Dwight on the offensive end. In short the Magic never had an elite defense despite having an elite defensive center. Kind of goes to the point of not building around your best strength.

4) A Monroe/Drummond front court actually has neither complimenting the other. Both are best offensively in space however neither gives the other space on offense. At least Dwight got spacing.

5)....meanwhile the Pistons had far more playoff success with Ben Wallace as their main game changer. Due to having a good one on one defender next to him, the Pistons won 50 games with a starting lineup of Chucky Atkins, Stackhouse, Michael Curry, and Cliff Robinson. They won with defense despite having a poor defensive back-court because a good post defender next to Ben freed him up to help the guards. Chauncy gets the most credit for that Championship...which is ridiculous considering that 2004 Championship team was below average offensively for most of the playoffs yet set all types of defensive records.

[DetroitPistons]

One little Cousins rumor pops up and everyone turns on Monroe. It's sickening.

[OneBadMutha]

One little Cousins rumor pops up and everyone turns on Monroe. It's sickening.

Has nothing to do w/ Cousins...or even to do w/ Monroe being bad. I think Monroe will be better long term defending the 5 and that offensively, him and Drummond do nothing for each other.

[JD43320]

Let's be honest Moose has been meh this year. He's worse in every statistical category than last year (except he's getting one more assit per game). He's vanished down the stretch of games. Whines constantly. Plays poor defense. Plays soft. I, and probably most, are disappointed that he hasn't stepped things up this year. So yeah there are reasons to be concerned about him. We tolerated his weakness the last 2 years because Ben Wallace was our second best big. Now that we have Drummond Moose is a little more expendable. We shouldn't rush to move him but it has to be an option. Personally I hope he grows a pair and starts playing like a man in the paint instead of the boy who cried "AND 1!"

[DetroitPistons]

One little Cousins rumor pops up and everyone turns on Monroe. It's sickening.

Has nothing to do w/ Cousins...or even to do w/ Monroe being bad. I think Monroe will be better long term defending the 5 and that offensively, him and Drummond do nothing for each other.

Ever since that rumor popped up a bunch of people around have been pointing out Monroe's flaws and willing to trade him so I think this is just a continuation of that.

I have no idea whatsoever how you can say that Monroe and Dre don't work well together after all the productive minutes they have played throughout the season. Every time they are on the floor together we play better.

[need4detroit]

One little Cousins rumor pops up and everyone turns on Monroe. It's sickening.

Has nothing to do w/ Cousins...or even to do w/ Monroe being bad. I think Monroe will be better long term defending the 5 and that offensively, him and Drummond do nothing for each other.

Ever since that rumor popped up a bunch of people around have been pointing out Monroe's flaws and willing to trade him so I think this is just a continuation of that.

I have no idea whatsoever how you can say that Monroe and Dre don't work well together after all the productive minutes they have played throughout the season. Every time they are on the floor together we play better.

I second this. I also think that a lot of our problems spacing the floor is poor shooting from our perimeters playing. It helps to have a stretch 4 to space the floor but your in trouble when your 2s and 3s aren't hitting open perimeter shots.

[Spider156]

Cool story bro.


Monroe is 22. He'll learn to hit a jump shot. Oh and btw, the monroe/dre tandem sports the 5th best defense in the league.

+1

[retrolenny]

When they elect to make Drummond a goto guy offensively, he will average 20+ pts per game. He will get stronger and fill out more. I won't be surprised to see AD over 300lbs and pure muscle. If he outweighs everyone then he will throw it down every time. I'm assuming they are holding off on that strategy until AD learns to hit 60% of his free throws!!

[DetroitPistons]

@N4D: I certainly wouldn't mind a stretch 4 if he came off the bench and was able to hold his own with rebounding and defense. I think bringing in a knock down shooter at the SG position would make the spacing just fine. Mayo may be the answer if we can get him in the offseason. Tay can also knock down 3's and when that jumper of Monroe's starts falling the spacing should be great.

[DetroitPistons]

When they elect to make Drummond a goto guy offensively, he will average 20+ pts per game. He will get stronger and fill out more. I won't be surprised to see AD over 300lbs and pure muscle. If he outweighs everyone then he will throw it down every time. I'm assuming they are holding off on that strategy until AD learns to hit 60% of his free throws!!

I think your getting ahead of yourself. Drummond has a really long way to go offensively. He still needs to learn basic post moves. I think he could easily average 12-14 right now though just off of hustle plays and open dunks. Too bad he only gets 20min a game...

[JD43320]

Cool story bro.


Monroe is 22. He'll learn to hit a jump shot. Oh and btw, the monroe/dre tandem sports the 5th best defense in the league.

That has a lot to do with how picky Frank is with when he will play those two together. He has avoided at all costs at going with the Moose/Dre pairing against teams that go small at the 4. Moose can't stick with the quicker guys at the 4 and he's not strong enough inside to punish them on the offensive end. Dre may have the quickness to stick with quicker 4's and some 3's but you don't want to pull him away from the basket. For this pairing to work it's more about Moose toughening up than anything Drummond has to do.

[retrolenny]

When they elect to make Drummond a goto guy offensively, he will average 20+ pts per game. He will get stronger and fill out more. I won't be surprised to see AD over 300lbs and pure muscle. If he outweighs everyone then he will throw it down every time. I'm assuming they are holding off on that strategy until AD learns to hit 60% of his free throws!!

I think your getting ahead of yourself. Drummond has a really long way to go offensively. He still needs to learn basic post moves. I think he could easily average 12-14 right now though just off of hustle plays and open dunks. Too bad he only gets 20min a game...

I'm not getting ahead of myself. AD is not a goto option and probably will not be this year but that day is coming. Is much to big and overpowering not to be used as an offensive option. If you reread my post, you will see that I was talking about the future not today. That said, it would be really nice if Frank designed 1-2 plays for him a game!!

[OneBadMutha]

To get back to the point of Howard and the Magic, yes they surrounded him with less than stellar defenders but at least there was a method to that madness on the offensive end. Monroe has more advantages offensively using his skill set against 5's than he does over-powering 4's. If Monroe was a power big, then I could see the logic of dealing with his defensive liabilities and then you complete this lineup by having shooters at the 1, 2, and 3. In fact, with Monroe's passing ability, that would be something to look forward to. But he hasn't gotten much stronger. Unless Monroe develops a power game, the Pistons aren't maximizing their assets. The beauty of the 2004 Pistons is that they were greater than the sum of their parts. Drummond and Monroe are good individual talents that don't compliment each other. There's no need to deal with a bad defender at the 4 unless he's bringing a ton on the offensive end.

[need4detroit]

I disagree that Monroe and Drummond don't compliment each other. I think the perfect situation would be to surround Drummond and Monroe with outside shooters, and 5 years from now I expect Monroe to have a consistent 15 footer, and Drummond to have a mid range shot in his arsenal, similar to what he flashed in the SL.