Should Billy King be fired?

[Paradise]

Aren't we talking about contending teams? You mentioned trades that the Lakers made in the past that stretched their assets, which allowed them to win a championship.

The 2012-13 Lakers is what I'm talking about. Hell, even last year's Lakers too. No assets besides trading Bynum who had a career season.

Ironically, Lopez one could argue is the biggest asset to trade right now if needed be for a superstar.

You mentioned the Heat, who traded their picks to construct the James/Wade/Bosh core, they too won a championship. You mentioned the Knicks, who traded all of their picks for Carmelo Anthony, and they too are better (I have no idea why you mention the Knicks not being better than the Lakers last year when that has nothing to do with the players they added this year). Will the Knicks win? No, they won't, but they are better (your words). I didn't mention any of those teams by name (Knicks weren't even in my original post because I don't believe them to be contenders) because I wasn't responding to you word for word, I was just making a general statement that contenders can get away with trading their picks because they already are contenders.

How are you all continuing to say "No, they won't" we don't know that. Yes, the Knicks right now are better because they are properly coached and put together a good group of effective two way role players.

This is the NBA. You either will put it all in one basket or carry on to assets and cap space til no end. OKC got worse, by losing Harden because they had to pay Ibaka, Westbrook. Tell me right now, who do they trade to get a beneficial piece? Perkins has zero value to a team looking to unload a quality player? Toronto's 1st round pick, Jeremy Lamb, Perry Jones will get you a solid player not a very good or great player.

The Clippers biggest weakness is lack of a low post offensive player. Tell me, who do they trade to get one? Bledsoe? He is the heart of their 2nd unit.

Having talent does not equate to being a well constructed team, I'm not sure where you're going with that. Just because the Nets have more talen than seven other teams in the east, does not mean they're constructed well.

Well, in that case the Clippers, Lakers, Heat among others are simply poorly constructed too.

Constructed = chemistry and complimentary.

This team compliments each other fine. Putting them in a position to succeed system wise has been the issue. Talent and construction was never the issue.

You do not win in this league without a good PG, Defensive minded Forward, Shooting Guard who can shoot, Center who can post up and Blue collar workers like Reggie Evans.

[N Ireland Nets]

This is the NBA. You either will put it all in one basket or carry on to assets and cap space til no end. OKC got worse, by losing Harden because they had to pay Ibaka, Westbrook. Tell me right now, who do they trade to get a beneficial piece? Perkins has zero value to a team looking to unload a quality player? Toronto's 1st round pick, Jeremy Lamb, Perry Jones will get you a solid player not a very good or great player.

I'm sorry but you have to be kidding me. You think a lotto shooting guard who is a very highly regarded talent in Jeremy Lamb and probably one of the best 1st round picks available to trade right now in a Toronto 1st round pick that is guaranteed to be a lottery pick, not might be but guaranteed pick along with another solid young asset in PJ3 is bringing back a solid player??

Hell thats the basis for a superstar trade, add an OKC first rounder to that with another big expiring deal like Martin and you've got yourself the basis for a superstar trade. Remember this is what was given up for Harden obviously so any star that becomes available and OKC can easily pick them up. That's how a proper well run organisation does things.

OKC are fantastically well run. Yes they lucked out with 4 tremendous picks in the draft in KD, Westbrook, Ibaka and Harden but they manage their roster so well. They are a small market team so they paid 3 of their core 4 and moved Harden for pieces which would put a patch over Harden's missed production using Martin as the 6th man while grooming the next SG in Lamb and bringing in a lottery pick. Thats top class GM'ing and it should've been a hell of a lot easier for King due to Proky's unlimited pockets to bring in a championship team. He had zero constraints to get a top team unlike OKC who have to manage the money they spend.

To put it in perspective if OKC wanted they could very easily ring the Kings and bring in Cousins to be their long term center in a big trade. It's all about maintaining your assets to take advantage of situations.

If it were up to me I'd of stayed the course and sucked hard the whole way towards the 2012 trade deadline and continued to keep using our picks to bring in the best player available in the draft. Think about it, we could've had a very good developing big man in Favors along with Lopez and a lotto pick that could've been Irving if we had continued to suck hard and tank towards the first pick. We'd of rolled towards the last deadline prior to the 2012 move to Brooklyn with a whole stack of assets and young players, GSW pick, Houston pick and every pick of our own.

Now imagine the possibilities that would've been available if we just didn't pull the trigger for D Will and have to convince players to stay with us. Tons of assets, moving to Brooklyn, huge buzz, young team ready to make huge superstar moves. Howard, Harden, Williams & CP3 all options to pursue at the deadline. I really do wish we didn't have such a trigger happy GM because we'd of been in a position to bring in top players to play around our young up and coming players we had draft like Lopez. I think King just lost patience and threw the kitchen sink at it with D Will and now he has to continue to do it with every trade. If we had just continued to suck and acquire assets we'd had teams ringing making offers on draft night that we could've taken advantage of, just like the Wizards got a phone call offering Harden which they couldn't do due to the owner of the Wizards being tight.

We could've been tanking towards the 2012 trade deadline with Irving, Brooks, ??? Favors, Lopez, all our 1st round picks, Houston pick and GSW pick. Yes proky wanted a winner but I believe King jumped the gun far to soon trying to prepare for Brooklyn with big splashes. We'd had cap room, assets and a good young team to build a long term contender.

Billy King jumped the gun in my opinion. Yes I enjoy watching the team winning and playing well but it doesn't stop me thinking "what if" regularly.

Hopefully we bring Jackson in straight after the season with a GM with his blessing to work with and Billy King doesn't make any big or silly trades prior to the deadline. I just don't see many great options available right now but with King wanting to impress the ownership prior to his deal expiring I'm afraid he's going to make a move for the sake of it.

[Paradise]

This is the NBA. You either will put it all in one basket or carry on to assets and cap space til no end. OKC got worse, by losing Harden because they had to pay Ibaka, Westbrook. Tell me right now, who do they trade to get a beneficial piece? Perkins has zero value to a team looking to unload a quality player? Toronto's 1st round pick, Jeremy Lamb, Perry Jones will get you a solid player not a very good or great player.

I'm sorry but you have to be kidding me. You think a lotto shooting guard who is a very highly regarded talent in Jeremy Lamb and probably one of the best 1st round picks available to trade right now in a Toronto 1st round pick that is guaranteed to be a lottery pick, not might be but guaranteed pick along with another solid young asset in PJ3 is bringing back a solid player??

Hell thats the basis for a superstar trade, add an OKC first rounder to that with another big expiring deal like Martin and you've got yourself the basis for a superstar trade. Remember this is what was given up for Harden obviously so any star that becomes available and OKC can easily pick them up. That's how a proper well run organisation does things.

Basis for a star trade? Yes. Enough to get it done? No.

You think the Wolves are going to trade Kevin Love for Toronto's 1st pick, Jeremy Lamb, Perry Jones? No. A package of that will get you DeMarcus Cousins probably if the Kings become desperate at some point.

If it were up to me I'd of stayed the course and sucked hard the whole way towards the 2012 trade deadline and continued to keep using our picks to bring in the best player available in the draft. Think about it, we could've had a very good developing big man in Favors along with Lopez and a lotto pick that could've been Irving if we had continued to suck hard and tank towards the first pick. We'd of rolled towards the last deadline prior to the 2012 move to Brooklyn with a whole stack of assets and young players, GSW pick, Houston pick and every pick of our own.


Now imagine the possibilities that would've been available if we just didn't pull the trigger for D Will and have to convince players to stay with us. Tons of assets, moving to Brooklyn, huge buzz, young team ready to make huge superstar moves. Howard, Harden, Williams & CP3 all options to pursue at the deadline. I really do wish we didn't have such a trigger happy GM because we'd of been in a position to bring in top players to play around our young up and coming players we had draft like Lopez. I think King just lost patience and threw the kitchen sink at it with D Will and now he has to continue to do it with every trade. If we had just continued to suck and acquire assets we'd had teams ringing making offers on draft night that we could've taken advantage of, just like the Wizards got a phone call offering Harden which they couldn't do due to the owner of the Wizards being tight.

You are basically saying the should suck, rebrand to New York and a borough with a plan that could have not even worked. Once again, It was not up to Billy as a GM but it was ownership that wanted to make moves. Big time moves to get this started.

We could've been tanking towards the 2012 trade deadline with Irving, Brooks, ??? Favors, Lopez, all our 1st round picks, Houston pick and GSW pick. Yes proky wanted a winner but I believe King jumped the gun far to soon trying to prepare for Brooklyn with big splashes. We'd had cap room, assets and a good young team to build a long term contender.

All we know is we would have had Favors, Harris, Kanter. That's it. We would have had the GW pick, Houston pick and we would have had something to work with among Morrow and whoever else. I understand that but would it be accepted going into a new city? Who would it have landed us if Deron gets traded to the Knicks or somewhere else? Who knows.

Billy King jumped the gun in my opinion. Yes I enjoy watching the team winning and playing well but it doesn't stop me thinking "what if" regularly.

We can play that with every trade, game and situation before that. What if we got Dwight Howard? What if we ended up putting together a 4 way trade that left us with Deron, Joe, Gerald, Teletovic, Howard?

What if the Clippers kept their pick and drafted Irving and had a team of Irving, Gordon, Griffin, Jordan?

I understand both sides of the coin but It doesn't exactly mean it's all doom and gloom either. Espcially when Deron had a direct hand in wanting Joe, keeping Gerald, making sure that we did not wait on Dwight and let time pass by.

Hopefully we bring Jackson in straight after the season with a GM with his blessing to work with and Billy King doesn't make any big or silly trades prior to the deadline. I just don't see many great options available right now but with King wanting to impress the ownership prior to his deal expiring I'm afraid he's going to make a move for the sake of it.

We have a core now of Deron, Joe, Gerald, Lopez. Now, adding complimentary pieces to make them better and make the other players better is what the next step is.

Coming into this season, I said we would be last year's Clippers, a team that went from the trash can to into the spotlight with weaknesses but still a 40 win team with a 2nd round exit in the 1st season.

Clippers traded a dead weight contract for Lamar Odom (still not great), signed Grant Hill and Billups to cheap deals, added Crawford with the mini MLE, added Barnes on a vet min deal. I'm pretty sure that is Billy's line of thinking going forward.

I'm sure Billy understands the importance of any major trade he makes using Kris Humphries and quite frankly, it's been that way since the off-season. So, I'm hopeful, he holds on to him and waits for any sort of potential deals that could surface.

[N Ireland Nets]

The only thing ownership demanded of Billy King was to open Brooklyn with a contender to take over New York.

He wasnt told to make trades right away for any star. Just that we had to have a top team in Brooklyn.

Like said before I think King jumped the gun. Without the Williams trade we would've been full tank ahead so might of got an even better pick that number 3.

[therealbig3]

My god are you a Billy King apologist. It all comes down to this:

-He massively overpaid for Wallace, because we could have signed him in free agency, and kept our lottery pick, which would most likely have been top 5 at least if we hadn't traded for him to end the season. With that move, we lost our single most valuable trade asset. Even though the Magic were being sensitive, spiteful bitches, they couldn't have said no to our deal if we had a top 5 pick thrown in.

-He massively overpaid for JJ, because there's no need to give the pick swap option, and you could argue that there was no need to add the Houston pick. We were doing the Hawks a favor by taking on JJ's contract. You do realize how much value our 2014 and 2015 picks have now, right? Not much. If anything, WE should have gotten the swap option, which would have improved the value of those picks. With that move, we lost one of our most valuable trade assets.

Because he threw away our draft picks as if they were nothing but filler, which was absolutely ridiculous, we have minimal trade assets, and this is pretty much our team. If you honestly believe there's a chance we can contend with this team as is, more power to you, but you're delusional. More delusional than Monta Ellis. And if we DO contend, it's in spite of King. We could have put this roster together and still have a lot more draft picks at our disposal, draft picks that have quite a bit of value.

So in a nutshell, King gave away our picks for nothing. How do you reconcile with that? How can you forgive that and honestly say that he did his job, or that he did the best he could do? That's utter BS. Management told him to put together a winner...like I said, it was possible to put together a winner and still keep our picks. VERY possible. Likely, in fact.

Every other GM probably loves the fact that King runs our team, because they know they can rip him off in a deal so badly. I love the fact that Damian Lillard has turned out to be a stud. Threw King's stupid logic about draft picks back in his face.

[Paradise]

My god are you a Billy King apologist. It all comes down to this:

-He massively overpaid for Wallace, because we could have signed him in free agency, and kept our lottery pick, which would most likely have been top 5 at least if we hadn't traded for him to end the season. With that move, we lost our single most valuable trade asset. Even though the Magic were being sensitive, spiteful bitches, they couldn't have said no to our deal if we had a top 5 pick thrown in.

Lol, how am I an apologist if I called this trade an Isiah move? I agree this was a terrible trade. Hell, the 2014 pick could have been used instead.

-He massively overpaid for JJ, because there's no need to give the pick swap option, and you could argue that there was no need to add the Houston pick. We were doing the Hawks a favor by taking on JJ's contract. You do realize how much value our 2014 and 2015 picks have now, right? Not much. If anything, WE should have gotten the swap option, which would have improved the value of those picks. With that move, we lost one of our most valuable trade assets.

Swapping pick option isn't massively overpaying. I do agree, he had leverage in that trade and should have used it but IMO, I think that was due to timing.

Because he threw away our draft picks as if they were nothing but filler, which was absolutely ridiculous, we have minimal trade assets, and this is pretty much our team. If you honestly believe there's a chance we can contend with this team as is, more power to you, but you're delusional. More delusional than Monta Ellis. And if we DO contend, it's in spite of King. We could have put this roster together and still have a lot more draft picks at our disposal, draft picks that have quite a bit of value.

The problem is, I have yet to hear a full breakdown of what is so wrong with the team as it is. We can contend with The Core 4. We have to improve the rest of the roster as time moves forward and that is the key.

I hear complaining but never a legit solution right now. Ok, we swap picks in 2014 and 15 with no outlook on what exactly that will mean in the draft or through trades. For the foreseeable future our trade pieces are: Brooks, Humphries, Taylor, Teletovic with two Euros expected to join the team in the next season or season after.

If trading for Boozer, Nene or any other high contract player is bad and adding a player on a cheaper deal who is slightly better than Humphries but maybe worse in other areas is bad then what do you want done?

So in a nutshell, King gave away our picks for nothing. How do you reconcile with that? How can you forgive that and honestly say that he did his job, or that he did the best he could do? That's utter BS. Management told him to put together a winner...like I said, it was possible to put together a winner and still keep our picks. VERY possible. Likely, in fact.

I do agree, he got trigger happy with the picks but again, there is zero factual proof that the picks are now suddenly worthless which is my entire point. I understand and agree there was a much better way to handle half of the moves but it's not the end all be all.

Every other GM probably loves the fact that King runs our team, because they know they can rip him off in a deal so badly. I love the fact that Damian Lillard has turned out to be a stud. Threw King's stupid logic about draft picks back in his face.

Nobody is going to look at the Wallace trade and say that honestly because half of the league did not select him, half of the league did not pay attention to any of these players and If we kept the pick, I'm pretty sure he would have drafted Harrison Barnes or something who probably wouldn't have even looked good right now under Avery.

The only way it would look like a backfire is if Wallace did not re-sign and that would have been the dumbest trade in NBA history even if it still is but it certainly would have created it's own running joke.

[therealbig3]

It's as simple as this: we could have had this team WITH draft picks. So in case we can't contend (which is likely), we would be able to make trades that would improve us enough to contend, like trading for another star.

Right now, without those picks, we really don't have anything of value to trade, outside of Brook and Deron, who are pretty much untouchable right now.

I really don't understand what's so difficult to grasp about all of that. Someone hires you to buy a nice car, with a budget of $1,000,000. The guy that's selling the car wants $10,000. You give him $999,000. The guy that hired you now has a nice car. But you massively overpaid and spent nearly your entire budget, and have little to no room for maintenance or repairs or improvements, and the car is scheduled to race in the Indy 500. You did a terrible job, and should be fired on the spot.

That's not even an oversimplification, that's literally what Billy King did.

[Hello Brooklyn]

The way you guys oversimplify things is just ridiculous.

As if you guys know what goes on in front offices and what we COULD HAVE done and what we SHOULD HAVE done.

All I know is Billy King did some great things. The Deron Williams trade was one of the greatest moves we have ever made. Do you guys understand how bad we were?

We were literally the laughing stock of the NBA and we were going nowhere. You think we could have come into Brooklyn with a team like that?
Its just absurd how you guys don't see that. Favors is absolute GARBAGE. I have been saying that ever since we drafted him, and was thrilled when we shipped him out of here. Hes in never going to start in the NBA. Just wait a few years and we will all be talking about uber-bust Favors.

And the Joe Johnson trade? He literally traded a pile of **** for a reliable shooting guard. Someone capable of hitting game winners and scoring 20+ points. Someone we desperately needed.

These moves alone makes Billy King ok in my book. His drafting has been good, his FA signing have looked good so far. The Wallace thing is the only real bad thing he has done.

Billy King took a 12 win team and made it into a playoff team. And this was the most important thing coming into Brooklyn. Making a contender is not easy and it takes time.

I think Paradise gave an excellent example with the Knicks. Teams can improve over night.
If Deron goes back to playing at an elite level, Lopez continues improving like this, and we add some good players in free agency, this team could end up being a contender.

[therealbig3]

First of all...who really cares how Favors turns out, whether he's good or bad? The point is, as a rookie, he had serious value around the league. He was touted as the next Dwight Howard by some. Teams wanted him based on his potential alone.

You're going to tell me that Utah wouldn't trade us Deron if we decided to trade Harris, Favors, the GSW pick, and just one first round pick instead of two?

You're going to tell me that Atlanta wouldn't trade us Joe Johnson if we didn't include the Houston pick or the pick swap option? There's a reason why he was acquired for a bucket of suck in terms of talent...it's because nobody wanted him. His contract for his production was atrocious. How many other teams were calling Atlanta asking about Joe Johnson? Nobody. That was a situation where we had a ton of leverage.

And then on top of that, you have the abomination that was the Wallace trade? And I'm starting to hate how people keep brushing it off as "well, outside of the Wallace trade"...there is no "outside of the Wallace trade"...that trade single-handedly prevented us from becoming a sure-fire contender in my book, unless we pull off some lopsided trade for a quality PF, and even at that point, we're a darkhorse. All of you are overlooking the fact that we would have had a top 5 pick in a deep draft, and would have most likely acquired Dwight Howard. Sure, if that's some "whatever" moment for you, so be it, but that's a pretty big deal to me. We essentially traded Howard for Wallace.

You guys are acting like it was difficult putting this roster together. Throwing A+ assets at teams and acquiring good players is not difficult...what's difficult is keeping some assets as you piece good players together. And in this case, THAT wouldn't have even been difficult.

And it's not the Deron Williams trade that pisses me off, even if it was a bit of an overpay, because we did need a superstar to build around...it's the Wallace trade, and the recent information about the JJ trade. Absolutely no need to do what he did. Specifically the Wallace trade.

[Hello Brooklyn]

First of all...who really cares how Favors turns out, whether he's good or bad? The point is, as a rookie, he had serious value around the league. He was touted as the next Dwight Howard by some. Teams wanted him based on his potential alone.

You're going to tell me that Utah wouldn't trade us Deron if we decided to trade Harris, Favors, the GSW pick, and just one first round pick instead of two?

You're going to tell me that Atlanta wouldn't trade us Joe Johnson if we didn't include the Houston pick or the pick swap option? There's a reason why he was acquired for a bucket of suck in terms of talent...it's because nobody wanted him. His contract for his production was atrocious. How many other teams were calling Atlanta asking about Joe Johnson? Nobody. That was a situation where we had a ton of leverage.

And then on top of that, you have the abomination that was the Wallace trade? And I'm starting to hate how people keep brushing it off as "well, outside of the Wallace trade"...there is no "outside of the Wallace trade"...that trade single-handedly prevented us from becoming a sure-fire contender in my book, unless we pull off some lopsided trade for a quality PF, and even at that point, we're a darkhorse. All of you are overlooking the fact that we would have had a top 5 pick in a deep draft, and would have most likely acquired Dwight Howard. Sure, if that's some "whatever" moment for you, so be it, but that's a pretty big deal to me. We essentially traded Howard for Wallace.

You guys are acting like it was difficult putting this roster together. Throwing A+ assets at teams and acquiring good players is not difficult...what's difficult is keeping some assets as you piece good players together. And in this case, THAT wouldn't have even been difficult.

And it's not the Deron Williams trade that pisses me off, even if it was a bit of an overpay, because we did need a superstar to build around...it's the Wallace trade, and the recent information about the JJ trade. Absolutely no need to do what he did. Specifically the Wallace trade.

So what if teams wanted Favors?

Did we not get back a top 3 PG at the time? Who did you expect us to get?

We got back the maximum value we could.

What are you talking about?
Utah was gonna milk us for all we had. They had all the leverage. Any team would bend over backwards for 2010 Deron Williams. And who cares about the GSW pick anyway?
Its looks pretty much useless at this point. Utah needed more than just Favors, of course they wanted a pick. Billy King wasn't going to jeopardize that for one more pick that turned into KANTOR. Who looks like a scrub anyway.

All this "you're going to tell me talk" is BS.

Stop acting like you know what was going on in Utah's or Atlanta's front office. Don't act like you know exactly what they wanted and you know what these teams were going to give up for their players. You're being completely unfair.

The pick swap thing is annoying, but who cares. Atlanta was supposed to be terrible this season. And I still don't see them maintaining a 3rd seed. Eventually, they will drop down in the standings and this whole pick swap thing won't even matter.

Giving up Petro, Stevenson, and Shawne Williams made this team better. Besides Morrow, we literally gave them NOTHING. And they were pushing for Brooks. Did you see Bill King give him up?

The Wallace trade in my eyes, is just not that big of a deal. Was it a bad trade?
Yes

Was it the only thing keeping us from getting Dwight Howard or James Harden like some of you like to pretend?
No it was not.

Can you guys just stop with you're "would have gotten Howard" BS. You know who stopped Dwight from coming here?
Dwight. Its his fault for waiving his ETO and no one elses. The Magic did not want to deal with us and they turned out the much better deal that we gave them. You cannot just assume keeping that pick was going to get us Dwight Howard.

But anyway. getting Dwight would not have made us a contender anyway. I know see that more than before. If we keep that pick we get Dwight and no Wallace, Lopez, or likely Johnson. That team is not making the playoffs in my eyes.

Wallace has been this team's emotional leader and at times our most important player. And based on his comments I do not see him coming here. He hates NY and there are plenty of other teams he could have signed with.

If its so easy to acquire good players why doesn't everyone just do it?
You are again oversimplifying the NBA by far.

[N Ireland Nets]

We gave up insane assets for Williams who was wanting to test free agency with 18 months left on his deal. King and Williams both said Williams was close to signing with Dallas hence the trade was a huge risk.

The Wallace trade, a high lottery pick for an expiring contract, huge risk.

Joe Johnson, expiring contacts plus Houston pick & right to swap picks in 2014 & 2015 which was all agreed to prior to Williams re-signing, huge risk.

Can people not see King is playing with fire here. He took great assets and gave us a good team that if we're being honest, isn't going to win a championship as currently constructed.

Before people say we can trade Brooks Hump & picks to bring in a PF, realistically our picks are worth very little with the 2014/2015 picks being trash now. So where has Billy King taken us, other than mediocrity which we can't get out of till 2016.

Make no mistake about it once hump & the little assets we have are moved for the likes of IIyasova, we're completely locked in for years until 2016.

This roster was put together badly.

[Hello Brooklyn]

LOL insane assets?

Derrick Favors?

Deron Williams was not going to come here over Dallas if we didn't trade for him. And we would be left with a joke of a team coming into Brooklyn?

[N Ireland Nets]

LOL insane assets?

Derrick Favors?

Deron Williams was not going to come here over Dallas if we didn't trade for him. And we would be left with a joke of a team coming into Brooklyn?

Your kidding yourself if you don't think what we gave up for Deron Williams wasn't anything but a fantastic package for Utah.

When did I say D Will would sign here as a free agent over Dallas?

[Hello Brooklyn]

Then that proves it was a good move since we are not gonna get a superstar any other way.

No I'm not. What have Derrick Favors, Enes Kantor, Devin Harris, and the GSW pick done for Utah so far?

If your answer was nothing, then you answered correctly.

[N Ireland Nets]

Then that proves it was a good move since we are not gonna get a superstar any other way.

No I'm not. What have Derrick Favors, Enes Kantor, Devin Harris, and the GSW pick done for Utah so far?

If your answer was nothing, then you answered correctly.

You need to look at the value at the time of the trade. Rather than Kanter, it was a top 3 lotto pick, the 3rd overall pick from the year prior in Favors, Devon Harris to fill a position of need & a very good pick in the GSW pick.

If you think that was 'nothing' then that's fine but that's a fantastic haul that Utah got.

I think it's funny that you think Favors has done nothing also when the player most nets fans want us to trade for is millsap, the very person being moved to make room for Favors who is a very very good player.

[vincecarter4pres]

I'm not even going to argue this, it's that NetsDaily think where a majority of them have an incredibly severe issue with separating trade value from player ratings while viewing things in hindsight instead of remembering how valuable certain assets were at the time they were dealt.

On actual trade value at the time they were dealt, the package sent out for Deron Williams was absolutely massive. It trumped the package sent out for Melo or even Chris Paul, both of which were either very solid or massive themselves, respectively.

The package sent out for Deron was a ton more then Harden just brought back.

We are talking the 3rd overall pick months removed from that status with a potential tag still on him of a Dwight Howard ceiling and McDyess likely case that had GM's around the league salivating, an unprotected pick from a team that would still obviously be no better then 9th worst in the lottery no matter what run the team went on post-trade, the GSW pick which had light protection and looked so likely to become a pick in the 7 to 17 range within a couple years and Devin Harris. Christ that's a lot of real deal elite assets and value.

And back to Favors, I mean you have reports all over that Doug Collins wanted him 2nd overall over Turner but management wouldn't allow it.

And he's turning into a player, don't get it twisted. He was the youngest player in the entire league his rookie year. Is it likely he'll ever be a superstar? No, not at all. But give it one more season, maybe 2 and I think he'll be a breakout guy who puts up super nice 17/11/2/2/1 type numbers with great defense as a 2nd or even 3rd option on offense and is widely considered top 8 at the deepest position in the league.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Thats ridiculous.

The Melo and Paul deals were just as good if not better.

The Knicks traded their entire starting lineup outside of Amare including Gallo a player who is better than Favors will ever be.

That trade made Denver a playoff team. Our trash would have put them straight into the lottery.

And the Clippers got Eric Gordon, one of the best and most promising players at the time, AND they got the Minny pick. That pick looked like it could have gone #1 overall at the time. WAY more valuable than Derrick Favors.

Yes we did give up the 3rd pick. but lets not act like that was a super valuable asset. That draft sucked and there were not very many good players where we picked anyway. Enes Kanter?

You can say what you want about Favors. I've been hearing about his "breakout season" for years now.
Hes awful. Will never last in the league.
No one ever said he was going to be Dwight Howard, comon now. Dwight was averaging a double double his rookie year. Favors couldn't even stay on the court without ****ing up.

And he netted us Deron Williams.

Again, the GSW pick was never going to be lottery. So its really not a big deal. We kept most of our picks long term.

And Devin Harris? He sucks? Whats he doing now?

You can frame it anyway you want. We gave up a rookie who had shown us nothing but potential, one lottery pick, a heavily protected GSW pick that still hasn't panned out, and Devin Harris.

I would WAY rather have Ray Felton, Gallo, Chandler, Mozgov, picks or Eric Gordon, Aminu, and a lottery pick than our deal.

[therealbig3]

^What's ridiculous is your complete spin job of everything. It's great to have hindsight, but AT THE TIME, those were all super valuable assets. We could have gotten some nice players for each individual asset.

Again, I'm not even mad about the Deron trade, but to not recognize how awesome of a deal Utah got is just delusional.

I get it, you want to believe that the Nets made out like bandits and that everything worked out for the best, but that's just fairy tale BS, and you're just being a blind homer. Most of Billy King's moves have been huge overpays that have pretty much crippled us outside of some potential minor improvements and far-fetched trade ideas. You can say I don't know what's going on in front offices all you want, but a lot of what I've been saying is just common sense.

And I love how you just know exactly what Favors is going to be. Can I have the winning lottery numbers, please?

[rj2496]

^What's ridiculous is your complete spin job of everything. It's great to have hindsight, but AT THE TIME, those were all super valuable assets. We could have gotten some nice players for each individual asset.

And I love how you just know exactly what Favors is going to be. Can I have the winning lottery numbers, please?

I have to agree with Hello Brooklyn to an extent. You guys saying he's talking about hindsight, but thats exactly what you guys were doing projecting we would have had Harden or Howard. I really don't know how anyone can complain about the Deron trade. Do I think Favors will be good? Yes, but nothing too special in my opinion. And Hello Brooklyn is right, people keep saying Favors will break out. Is he young? Yes. Does he have potential? Yes. I don't see him being anything great though. Do I trade Favors, Kanter, Harris, and a pick for Deron again? Yes, and twice on Sunday.

[therealbig3]

This is going to be my last post in this thread, because neither side is getting anywhere, but I specifically said this:

And it's not the Deron Williams trade that pisses me off, even if it was a bit of an overpay, because we did need a superstar to build around

Again, I'm not even mad about the Deron trade, but to not recognize how awesome of a deal Utah got is just delusional.

I would do the trade again too, because we did need a star player to build around...but please stop making lame excuses about how we didn't give up that much. The only frustrating part about that is, considering how good our trade assets were, and knowing Billy King, we probably didn't have to give up as much as we did. Especially when you compare it to what other teams got for their stars.

But like I said, the Deron trade itself doesn't really bother me, I'm glad we acquired him. It's the revisionist history and the perception that you guys are putting out there about how we didn't give up too much that bothers me. It's the defending of the indefensible Wallace trade that bothers me (brushing it aside is defending it). It's the overlooking of what the implications of the pick swap in the JJ trade are that bothers me. It's the overall pass that you guys are giving Billy King that bothers me.

Common sense dictates that Billy King could have given up a lot less and still put together this roster. Common sense dictates that for what he gave up, Billy King could have put together a title contender, but didn't. These are quite clearly fireable offenses, but his moves are being spun into something that they're not.