The Case for Eric Bledsoe

[countrybama24]

I've be extolling my opinion that we need to get this dude for awhile now, even last year before he really blew up. I've heard several other PG targets out there, and imo all are worse options than Bledsoe. Since this is the only major gap in our young core, and I find myself discussing Bledsoe in many different threads, I decided to just consolidate the discussion here.

I'm not sure how much everyone has seen him play, I watched him often before the CP trade when he got some reps as a starter, and I think he is a top 10 PG. Incredibly athletic, elite defense (in transition and on the perimeter) and elite finisher in transition. There are only two major knocks.

1. He isn't a distributor / "real" PG. I think he can average 6-7 assists in the Jazz system, which has allowed Mo to throw up stat lines that look like Deron's used to. I think Hayward should start and run much of the half-court offense which will make up much of the slack. Ultimately, I just think "traditional" PGs are overrated if you have good passers on the team. They are also unnecessary if you play excellent defense, which creates transition opportunities. See Chauncey Billups with the '04 pistons.

2. He can't shoot. This is false. He couldn't shoot. But now he's 80% from the line, 34% from three, and he'll just get better over time. I'll take all he brings to the table and gamble on slowing improving his shooting. If you don't gamble, take no risks, you get proven players with no upside a la Calderon which will cap this teams potential (good luck getting past the Thunder / Clippers).

Just my thoughts. Who else out there can we get who is better? Lowry potentially, I can hear an argument for him since he fits my elite defender mold, but I think he leaves in a couple of years and isn't as good of a locker room guy as Bledsoe would be. I'd give Burks up for Bledsoe, and I really, really like Burks. Don't think I would for Lowry.

[red4hf]

Avery Bradley is better than Bledsoe is pretty much every way....... So, if we're going to take on a project of making a point guard out of a two guard, why not go with Bradley.......

Bradley/Burks/Hayward rotation on the wings makes me drool.......

[reapaman]

Well I always liked bledsoe and thought we shouldve gotten him earlier but his stock is way too high right now and he has enormous value to the clippers since CP3 hasn't extended his contract yet. Way too expensive right now.

Plus as I may have expressed many times, we need a new young core because besides Favors non of those guys will be consistent starters for a contender. Rather I'm wrong or right, there are too many doughts about them even from people who like them so I don't think we should build our team as if they will still be here past their rookie contracts.

I rather go after Cj Mccollum in the draft who is a guy who can do everything pretty well or Kendall Marshall who will be an elite facillitator but has major issues in the other parts of his game (With that said I don't think his lack of speed will be an issue because the older guys stay in this league by being smart and Marhsall is a very smart player). I'm sure there are more options once I think about it but both those guys will be cheaper than getting bledsoe or even bradley and they also have more upside and potential impact.

[countrybama24]

I rather go after Cj Mccollum in the draft who is a guy who can do everything pretty well or Kendall Marshall who will be an elite facillitator but has major issues in the other parts of his game (With that said I don't think his lack of speed will be an issue because the older guys stay in this league by being smart and Marhsall is a very smart player)

I will probably write more later after work, but I just wanted to say quickly that Kendall Marshall is awful. Just terrible. He racked up half his dimes in college throwing easy look ahead fast break passes to their dominating wings and bigs, and that's his only statistical category worth noting. He is the definition of a one dimensional player.

In the d-league, he's averaged 7.6 pts on 31% shooting (on 30+ minutes per game). No way this guy is an NBA starter, he might not even be an NBA player.

I don't know much about CJ, but you're persistent obsession with Marshall isn't helping your credibility here. It's fairly obvious now he racked up dimes being surrounded by elite scorers and athletes (at the college level). I might have averaged 7 dimes if I had the ball that much and played with his teammates (and to be fair, turn the ball over a lot, but still).

[Inigo Montoya]

as i wrote here many times before - bledsoe is over rated. so is bradley for that matter.

there is no way bradley will ever be a point guard - that's just not his game and he doesn't have the necessary skills. he is a good defender, but other than that he is nothing special, and i really don't understand why suddenly he is looked at as the celtics' savior (not here necessarily) who will turn their season around once he returns.

as for bledsoe - i'll say it again. he plays the PG position because of his size, but he is not a PG. he is a very good athlete and a good defender, but he is way over rated. if you give him enough touches and minutes, he could average 6-7 assists, but he is a turnover machine, and a bad shooter, who doesn't know how to run an offense or to facilitate consistently.

i don't think marshall is the answer, his ceiling is a backup PG imho.

if the jazz drafted cj mcollum, i wouldn't mind it, though i think there are other prospects who might be better\better fit for the jazz. generally speaking, since i don't see a good enough player out there that the jazz can realistically get who will be a big upgrade and a long term solution to the PG position (with the exception of greivis vasquez), i tend to think the answer to the PG position should come from the draft.

[reapaman]

I will probably write more later after work, but I just wanted to say quickly that Kendall Marshall is awful. Just terrible. He racked up half his dimes in college throwing easy look ahead fast break passes to their dominating wings and bigs, and that's his only statistical category worth noting. He is the definition of a one dimensional player.

In the d-league, he's averaged 7.6 pts on 31% shooting (on 30+ minutes per game). No way this guy is an NBA starter, he might not even be an NBA player.

I don't know much about CJ, but you're persistent obsession with Marshall isn't helping your credibility here. It's fairly obvious now he racked up dimes being surrounded by elite scorers and athletes (at the college level). I might have averaged 7 dimes if I had the ball that much and played with his teammates (and to be fair, turn the ball over a lot, but still).

You forgot to mention he led the d-league in assist during that stint plus that UNC team died last year when he went down for injury after looking like a juggarnaut before he went down so he was alot more important than your stating he was. If anyone could do what he did at UNC then his backup (Stilman White) wouldve been able to keep that going but even though he played like I said that team pretty much died without Marshall.

And I know people are not gonna see what I see in him yet which is usually the case ala how I argued for danny green from before the draft and even when he got cut by the cavs and spurs. Now he is starting for a team that cut him. Shoot, I got killed for suggesting we get Vasquez last year and the year before and now look at him.

Marshall will be fine and his d-league stint meant nothing. I already knew he would struggle to score and even the 31% wasn't suprising at all to me.

[Inigo Montoya]

even though i didn't write here at the time, i was high on vasquez since before the draft. always liked him.

[QuantumMacgyver]

Like I've written before, I don't understand why everyone feels the need to state that they have previously written similar texts. This is a forum, we all know that you've written here before. Move on.

That being said,I normally disagree with Reapa vehemently, but I agree in regard to Marshall. It's not surprising at all that he is stinking it up in the d league. Marshall has never, and will never be an offensive killer. Marshall is a distributor. Now think about the talent in the d league. Not a whole lot of quality players to assist you in assisting them. Surround Marshall with nba quality players and he'll be a borderline 8 assist per game guy. That being said, he is a liability on offense, but does anyone think Watson is NOT a liability on offense? All he does is play D. Which is great, but also proves that one trick ponies have their place in this league. Even if Marshall isn't starter quality, he'd instantly be our best facilitator from day one. Think about that? Our PG play is so bad that even a rookie Marshall would be an improvement over all of them.

[SoCalJazzFan]

A recent article about Marshall might change some minds- http://arizona.sbnation.com/2012/12/20/ ... ence-scout

As a longtime Jazz fan, it is hard for me to imagine the PG not being one of the two best players on the team, however, I am realizing that in the future this might not be the case and we better hope that at least a couple of the other 4-6 players in the rotation will be the stars or at least impact players.

I like Bledsoe, and hoped that the Jazz would have snatched him when the Clippers had a solid 4 PG rotation and lacked wings last year. He is a combo guard, but the best the Jazz could get this past year was a combo guard. Moreover, the Jazz's system has changed and I wonder how much a "true PG" in necessary.

That being said, it is true that the Clips won't give him up until CP3 signs the new contract with the Clips. He'll probably be available this summer and I would rather the Jazz hold onto Burks. Collison might also be available this summer. I am not sure which other desireable FA PGs will be available. I would like the Jazz to take one of these guys for a test drive for a few months before committing to them longterm, however.

I haven't heard much buzz about any college PGs, except for McCollum who just broke his foot- anyone I should be following?

[Inigo Montoya]

Like I've written before, I don't understand why everyone feels the need to state that they have previously written similar texts. This is a forum, we all know that you've written here before. Move on.

That being said,I normally disagree with Reapa vehemently, but I agree in regard to Marshall. It's not surprising at all that he is stinking it up in the d league. Marshall has never, and will never be an offensive killer. Marshall is a distributor. Now think about the talent in the d league. Not a whole lot of quality players to assist you in assisting them. Surround Marshall with nba quality players and he'll be a borderline 8 assist per game guy. That being said, he is a liability on offense, but does anyone think Watson is NOT a liability on offense? All he does is play D. Which is great, but also proves that one trick ponies have their place in this league. Even if Marshall isn't starter quality, he'd instantly be our best facilitator from day one. Think about that? Our PG play is so bad that even a rookie Marshall would be an improvement over all of them.

if we are in agreement (mostly) that marshall is most likely a backup, we might as well take a swing at machado, since we wouldn't have to give up anything to get him, while if we want marshall a trade will have to be made.

as for the comparison to watson - yes, watson is a liability on offense, but at least he is a decent defensive player, while marshall's shortcomings on the offensive side have a lot to do with lack of athleticism which will also hurt him on defense - where he was never known to be all that great to begin with. he has too many disadvantages for us to trade for him imho. if he was a free agent that would be a different story, but as it stands right now, i would rather take machado (who will cost nothing) for a trail run.

[Spottieottie]

How about Eric Maynor as a darkhorse name? The prodigal son. I guess he's out of OKC's rotation in favor of Reggie Jackson, that injury last year really hurt him because before it he was integral to that team. Regardless, I don't know how much he'd command this summer (he's a FA) but it probably won't be alot, and he would a great backup. I'm not sure of his starter potential.. I always thought it was there but like I said he's had setbacks recently. I was so pissed when we traded him, cuz he was good.

[UTJazzFan_Echo1]

He's so overrated. Never been impressed with him.

Rather sign Collison.

[The59Sound]

Like I've written before, I don't understand why everyone feels the need to state that they have previously written similar texts. This is a forum, we all know that you've written here before. Move on.

I've never gotten that either...

[Inigo Montoya]

Like I've written before, I don't understand why everyone feels the need to state that they have previously written similar texts. This is a forum, we all know that you've written here before. Move on.

I've never gotten that either...

i'm relatively new here, so i DON'T know what everyone have written before, and i'm sure it applies to a few other posters here. not only that, i also have a problem that i don't know how\who can fix - which is i can't use the search function to find my older posts (or anyone else's posts for that matter) or browse beyond the first page of my posts. so please - less snarkiness , more substance. thank you.

[reapaman]

Like I've written before, I don't understand why everyone feels the need to state that they have previously written similar texts. This is a forum, we all know that you've written here before. Move on.

Well apparently they don't because as you may have noticed many of the responses to my post for some odd reason seem to have the words "lack credibility" or "your wrong" instead of a simple "I disagree" and an explanation why. Doesn't matter but it takes the fun out of debating when people simply discredit your opinion and not respond as if you could be right. Well thats why I do it so we can keep up a healthy fun debate.

Ok with all that out of the way, I still think marshall is a starting caliber pg. I mean he's not doing any worse than Rafer Alston (I'm sure theres more but he's the first to pop in my head) who played nothing short of horrific when he got into the nba at 23 y/o and his flaws eclisped marshall's flaws but despite that, rafer became a more than capable starter in his prime and was a key part to that orlando team getting to the finals (him being replace with Jammer in the finals by stan van genious is still one of the dumbest coaching mistakes ever). So its not like its unprecedented for Marshall to become a quality starter eventually.

[The59Sound]

Like I've written before, I don't understand why everyone feels the need to state that they have previously written similar texts. This is a forum, we all know that you've written here before. Move on.

I've never gotten that either...

i'm relatively new here, so i DON'T know what everyone have written before, and i'm sure it applies to a few other posters here. not only that, i also have a problem that i don't know how\who can fix - which is i can't use the search function to find my older posts (or anyone else's posts for that matter) or browse beyond the first page of my posts. so please - less snarkiness , more substance. thank you.

Not sure what you're upset about. I think all he was saying was that "I've mentioned this many times before..." qualifiers aren't really relevant and come off as an unnecessary "I thought of this first!!!"-type thing. I happen to agree. Has nothing to do with how long someone's been on the forum -- how many times and how long ago someone first made the argument that they're making in a current post just isn't particularly pertinent is all. It was a passing comment that shouldn't really have the potential to offend anyone.

[Inigo Montoya]

Not sure what you're upset about. I think all he was saying was that "I've mentioned this many times before..." qualifiers aren't really relevant and come off as an unnecessary "I thought of this first!!!"-type thing. I happen to agree. Has nothing to do with how long someone's been on the forum -- how many times and how long ago someone first made the argument that they're making in a current post just isn't particularly pertinent is all. It was a passing comment that shouldn't really have the potential to offend anyone.

i'm not upset or offended. at all. just pointing out that not everyone here knows what others have written before. not only because some of us are new, but also because it's not like we all read every thread and if someone wrote something in a certain post, maybe it wasn't seen, or maybe the subjects are similar and then you just point out that your point was made before.

i don't think it's an "i thought of it first" kind of thing, we're all adults here. but if you made a lengthy argument about something before, then you may not want to write it all over again when the same subject comes up, which is why i think it is worth mentioning that you made similar arguments before, which may be more in depth in older posts and shorter in this post since there is no sense in writing it all in full all over again. this thread about bledsoe is a good example - his name have come up in countless threads as well as the ongoing discussion about the PG for the jazz in general.

and btw, if someone did say something first which later came to pass - all the power to them. good for them, it's part of the fun. imagine the guy who suggested marcus smart to the jazz. if it happens, why shouldn't he point it out that he lobbied for smart a year in advance? that's pretty cool. i lobbied for nate wolters and if the jazz get him i'm sure i'll say something. call it bragging rights or whatever. we're wrong all the time, it's nice to be right once in a blue moon.

Well apparently they don't because as you may have noticed many of the responses to my post for some odd reason seem to have the words "lack credibility" or "your wrong" instead of a simple "I disagree" and an explanation why. Doesn't matter but it takes the fun out of debating when people simply discredit your opinion and not respond as if you could be right. Well thats why I do it so we can keep up a healthy fun debate.

Ok with all that out of the way, I still think marshall is a starting caliber pg. I mean he's not doing any worse than Rafer Alston (I'm sure theres more but he's the first to pop in my head) who played nothing short of horrific when he got into the nba at 23 y/o and his flaws eclisped marshall's flaws but despite that, rafer became a more than capable starter in his prime and was a key part to that orlando team getting to the finals (him being replace with Jammer in the finals by stan van genious is still one of the dumbest coaching mistakes ever). So its not like its unprecedented for Marshall to become a quality starter eventually.

i'm with you on this one reapa, and i wouldn't mind getting marshall for the jazz for a trail run, even though i happen to think his ceiling is lower than what you think. time will tell.

[RyanStorm]

I am a Mo Williams fan, i think he is our best PG option.

Tinsley makes a great 3rd string, and decent 2nd unit.

Watson, should be removed in favor of a great bench PG. Burks plays this role nicely, but I like him better at SG. I mean the 2nd unit plays great even with a less than pg. Imagine them being ran by a great PG. I have no names, but we can easily trade for a decent bench PG.

[millslapper]

i like the idea, that the Jazz don't need a typical PG with Hayward out there.

But we also can play with Burks here and a decent ball-handling SF, so you would have Burks-Hayward-X-Favors-Kanter as our future.

[zronv7]

Clippers in: Jefferson
Jazz in: Bledsoe, Jordan