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Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I

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Re: ~~~2013 (DRAFT) thread ~~~tank it!! 

Post#401 » by nate33 » Wed Jan 9, 2013 3:38 pm

Ruzious wrote:In general, take the BPA with the one caveat that if it's real close, don't take a guard.

My feeling right now on the draft is that there are 7 elite players - in order of quality:
1. Nerlens Noel - tremendous athlete and very fluid with the ball - in spite of the criticisms of his offensive game. He's not Anthony Davis - because he doesn't have Davis' amazing BBIQ, but he is a legit #1 #1. He has the frame to fill out - and strength should eventually be a plus - rather than the negative it is now. Easily the #1 pick in my view.
2. Trey Burke - I know - most have him around #20, but this guy really is worthy of the #2 pick. He is the total package as a PG, and he does whatever he wants to do - and he wants to do whatever his team needs to win. He's short, but so is Chris Paul - and he's got solid length and good strength. He's got that tremendous balance that Paul and Tony Parker have.
3. Marcus Smart - Totally different type of PG than Burke. He's more of a hybrid guard in the style that Dwayne Wade was early in his career. Physcially imposing - even intimidating - which is amazing for an 18 year old frosh. A pure leader - which really sticks out on the court. He's still working on his shot, but it's improving. He was supposedly more of a 2 in HS, so he's still learning the PG position, but in the NBA - he'll probably be a Wade-style hybrid/tweener in a good way.
4. Shabazz Muhammad - As pure a scorer as I've seen come to college in years. Looks almost insanely motivated to get the ball in the basket. Still does it in the framework of the offense - not bogging down the offense with 1 on 1 nonsense. But to move up in my rankings, he has to show he can do more than score. So far, I don't think he has.
5. Cody Zeller - Tremendous offensive center and rebounds adequately. Competes hard. He's stronger than given credit for and will be thicker than his brother. His lack of length is an issue.
6. Ben McLemore - Really good all-around 2 with no weaknesses. Has Beal's game but is a little more talented.
7. Alex Len - He's below Zeller, because he's thinner, and he's not as consistently assertive. Being assertive seems to come naturally for Zeller; I don't think it does with Len on a consistent basis.

Players that I like for the 2nd round that I don't think people here have mentioned (pardons if they have):
1. Phil Pressey - my favorite college player to watch. I think he'll slip because of his lack o size. Perfect as a backup PG to run the other team into submission for spurts o minutes. And a phenominal passer. His shooting is inconsistent, but he does have 3 point range. He will be a crowd favorite.
2. Victor Olapido - Zeller's teammate reminds of Aaron Afflalo - physically tough big 2 who does everything well.
3. Kelly Olynyk - late blooming 7 footer with tremendous scoring ability. But pretty much all other parts of his game need a lot of work.
4. Mike Muscalla - doesn't even come close to passing the eye test, but he's a 6'11 240 lber who's super-productive and super efficient at Bucknell. Hook him up with a top personal trainer and eventually you might have a David Lee type player.
5. Travis Releford - McLemore's teammate was strictly a defensive specialist his 1st 3 years. Finally, he got the green light to shoot this season, and he hasn't missed many. He's still not even listed as worthy of being drafted by any mocks I've seen, but he's a spot-up shooter and a 6'6 210 lb outstanding defender. He will play in the NBA.
6. Seth Curry - also not listed as worthy of being drafted, because he's a small skinny guard, but play him with a big PG iike Wall, and he could be very effective. He's got the shooting gene just like bro Steph.

Great post, Ruzious. I love it when you and Dat2U check in with your early draft breakdowns. It provides a great starting point for me to get a flavor of the draft.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread 

Post#402 » by nate33 » Wed Jan 9, 2013 4:21 pm

Now that it's time to actually get serious about draft discussions, I went ahead and changed the title of this thread and stickied it.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I 

Post#403 » by Ruzious » Wed Jan 9, 2013 5:00 pm

Thanks very much, nate. For us Wiz fans, that time of year comes early. To follow up, I'd add that while draft predictions are still very fluid, I think it's a great draft to have a top 7 pick and probably below average to have a pick from about 10-25 - which could change drastically. The top 4 players I mentioned I think have all-star to supastar potential and the next 3 have borderline all-star potential.

While I understand where Dark Faze is coming from - and a lot of people agree with him - players with his total package don't come along often. He's raw, but compare him to teammate Willy Cauley-Stein - who is maybe the most physically talented player in college. I can visualize Noel's game at both ends in the NBA in a team concept. I can see him excelling - not just with his athleticism but with his skills - extremely fluid driving to his left, great hands, great reactions to the ball, developing a 15 footer. I can't with Cauley-Stein - even though his physical talent is off the charts. In other words, there's raw with outstanding development in sight, and there's Javale McGee as a rookie raw. Noel is the former.
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Re: ~~~2013 (DRAFT) thread ~~~tank it!! 

Post#404 » by JAR69 » Wed Jan 9, 2013 5:35 pm

Ruzious wrote:2. Victor Olapido - Zeller's teammate reminds of Aaron Afflalo - physically tough big 2 who does everything well.


I've been meaning to mention Oladipo as a possible second rounder. Oladipo has an NBA body, nice explosiveness, decent BBIQ, is a very tough defender, and has seriously improved his outside shooting. I was wondering what YODA says about him.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I 

Post#405 » by pancakes3 » Wed Jan 9, 2013 5:42 pm

I'm not knocking Shabazz but he's not a can't-miss product. The two red flags of low assists and low steals suggest that he's a bit of an iso-gunner and that he's not much of a hustler. He's a lot closer to OJ Mayo than Kobe Bryant (maybe not even as good as Mayo).

Noel on the other hand is very impressive. He's not a pure scorer but he does everything that makes scoring easier for everyone else. He's active, moves without the ball, loves defense, runs the floor, pass out of (rare) double teams, and finish around the rim. I'd say Noel is as can't miss a product as it gets though the ceiling isn't as high as... Shaq's...
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Re: ~~~2013 (DRAFT) thread ~~~tank it!! 

Post#406 » by DCsOwn » Wed Jan 9, 2013 6:22 pm

Dark Faze wrote:I'm almost never going to draft a PF/C unless he's a sure thing with a top 3 pick, and Noel isn't going to make an impact for a team until his second contract most likely.

This team is like 12th overall defensively right now. We are losing games because we don't have a single 20ppg scorer. We're simply unbelievably bad offensively.

Passing on a guy who scores as effortlessly as Shabazz would be a hilarious mistake, especially given the investments we've made at PF/C already. We could bet set with Wall/Beal/Shabazz and use free agency to fill our needs with Nene and Okafor expire. We've got a lot of flexibility there but none concerning scorers, which are impossible to acquire in this league.


I agree with this almost exactly. We need an assertive, scoring three in the worst way considering the possibility that Wall might never develop into a significant, scoring asset in the half-court and Beal can too often be a bit of a flow player and I'm not exactly sure he'll grow into being a true, first option for a competent offensive team at this level. My only point of divergence with you is that I'd take Noel with a top 3 pick if Shabazz is off the board without hesitation. I think Noel is going to be a dominant defensive presence in the NBA when he physically matures, and that type of presence would be a solid consolation prize should we miss out on Shabazz, especially when measured against the rest of the prospects projected to be available this year.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I 

Post#407 » by Dark Faze » Wed Jan 9, 2013 6:30 pm

Yea, I clearly take Noel if Bazz is off the board. He wont add wins but maybe we're bad enough the next year to have a shot at Jabari or Wiggins.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I 

Post#408 » by Dark Faze » Wed Jan 9, 2013 6:44 pm

pancakes3 wrote:I'm not knocking Shabazz but he's not a can't-miss product. The two red flags of low assists and low steals suggest that he's a bit of an iso-gunner and that he's not much of a hustler. He's a lot closer to OJ Mayo than Kobe Bryant (maybe not even as good as Mayo).

Noel on the other hand is very impressive. He's not a pure scorer but he does everything that makes scoring easier for everyone else. He's active, moves without the ball, loves defense, runs the floor, pass out of (rare) double teams, and finish around the rim. I'd say Noel is as can't miss a product as it gets though the ceiling isn't as high as... Shaq's...


Lol running the floor and passing the ball are not skills I need from a guy right now. Jan Vesely had those as reasons to draft him as well. Trying hard, having a motor = irrelevant. Only one thing matters, and that's skills translating to the next level. Anthony Davis is twice the player that Nerlens is and he's struggling to impact games defensively right now. Nerlens is going to be a non-factor offensively and his defense won't be at the level it is now.

The thing with Shabazz is that there are pure scorers and there are pure scorers. Shabazz is closer to Harden than he is to Kevin Martin, and we absolutely need a 1st option offensively or we're going no where.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I 

Post#409 » by Nivek » Wed Jan 9, 2013 7:19 pm

Motor is not irrelevant. See Faried, Kenneth. Motor without skill, aptitude, hoops IQ -- that's irrelevant.

Not a commentary on Shabazz.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I 

Post#410 » by miller31time » Wed Jan 9, 2013 7:28 pm

I'm with the crowd who would take Muhammed 1st without giving it a 2nd thought.

His scoring will certainly translate to the NBA and he looks to have the poise and potential to make it big. Noel is 2nd in my book. He won't make an immediately positive impact but 2-3 years down the line, he should be mature enough to become an All-Star caliber player.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I 

Post#411 » by AFM » Wed Jan 9, 2013 7:40 pm

pancakes3 wrote:I'm not knocking Shabazz but he's not a can't-miss product. The two red flags of low assists and low steals suggest that he's a bit of an iso-gunner and that he's not much of a hustler. He's a lot closer to OJ Mayo than Kobe Bryant (maybe not even as good as Mayo).

Noel on the other hand is very impressive. He's not a pure scorer but he does everything that makes scoring easier for everyone else. He's active, moves without the ball, loves defense, runs the floor, pass out of (rare) double teams, and finish around the rim. I'd say Noel is as can't miss a product as it gets though the ceiling isn't as high as... Shaq's...

Shabazz may be a "iso gunner" but he's sporting a 59.2 TS% :o
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I 

Post#412 » by jivelikenice » Wed Jan 9, 2013 7:47 pm

^Can he play 3? or would he be a more natural 6th man type in the OKC Harden role?
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I 

Post#413 » by Nivek » Wed Jan 9, 2013 7:53 pm

Just took another look at Shabazz in YODA. His offensive efficiency is impressive, especially considering his high usage. His overall rating is consistent with that of a top 5-7 pick, but it isn't up there with #1-#1 picks. His rebounding is okay for a wing, but I do see some possible red flags in the numbers.

Specifically, low 2pt% (below 50% is bad), very low assists and steals, and zero blocked shots. His scoring volume and efficiency is impressive, though.

His overall score in YODA is about where Beal's was at the end of last season. I'd like to see him improve the non-scoring parts of his game as the season progresses.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I 

Post#414 » by Dark Faze » Wed Jan 9, 2013 7:57 pm

He'd play SF for us. I can't even imagine Bazz and Crawford sharing the floor together, there's not enough balls in the world.

We'd be a little small at the 2 and the 3 for sure, but Wall being a big guard helps the perimeter D out loads.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I 

Post#415 » by gambitx777 » Wed Jan 9, 2013 8:44 pm

Well i think that we do and should get rid of some of our older bigs, such as NENE and okafur. But at the same time there are some promising bigs later in the draft that are being over looked
Kelly Olynyk, Key stats: 17.6 ppg 6.6 rpg, (he is closer than it looks to averaging a double double, due to that he was hurt early on)
Ryan Kelly key stats: shooting 52% from the 3, 13.3 PPG, 5.4 RPG.
C.J. Leslie key stats: fg% 58%, turn over might be a problem but steals the ball well.
So, if we can pick some good bigs late i dont have a problem going smaller early cuz i do see the point in taking bazz if he is the BPA at the time.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I 

Post#416 » by Ruzious » Wed Jan 9, 2013 9:11 pm

Let's talk of the dilemma that Will alluded to about BPA v position. Regardless of any of our rankings, it looks like the likely top 2 picks will be Mohammad and Noel - in either order. So, what happens if the Wiz get the 3rd or 4th pick? I have Burke and Smart as the best 2 players on the board. Of course, I'm probably in a tiny minority there (probably a minority of 1). But I actually would take Burke or Smart there (or perhaps in a trade down). I think they are a cut above Zeller, Len, and McLemore. And I think both are at such a high level that they could play with either Wall or Beal. But again - that's because I rate Smart and especially Burke higher than probably everyone else does.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I 

Post#417 » by Halcyon » Wed Jan 9, 2013 9:16 pm

Noel scares me since he will likely be an absolute 0 on the offensive end. I'm wary to pick that kind of player in the top 3. I would be fine with Shabazz, and I'm not too worried about the assist numbers being low, looks like he's more of a finisher on that team than an initiator, with Larry Drew (8.5 apg) and Kyle Anderson (3.5 apg) as the ball dominant players. His defense might be subpar but he looks like a superefficient scorer that would fit in well with our current wing players.

Edit: also Ruzious, I love Burke as well. I think he's going to be a very solid PG in the league. He's on a very talented team but he's definitely the head honcho that makes their team go.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I 

Post#418 » by Ruzious » Wed Jan 9, 2013 9:20 pm

Dark Faze wrote:He'd play SF for us. I can't even imagine Bazz and Crawford sharing the floor together, there's not enough balls in the world.

We'd be a little small at the 2 and the 3 for sure, but Wall being a big guard helps the perimeter D out loads.

I don't think size is a problem for Bazz at the 3. While he's probably only 6'6.5ish, he's got long arms, a very strong body, and jumps well.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I 

Post#419 » by rockymac52 » Wed Jan 9, 2013 9:21 pm

I haven't been around much lately, so I'm just catching up on a lot of these pages, but I had to comment on one old discussion here: Jeff Withey

Now, first of all, I'm without a doubt biased here. I despise kU. So take this with a grain of salt.

Second, this was last year, and it was only one game, so obviously it's not fair to treat it like an end-all be-all situation. But it still alarms me...


Check out Withey's numbers in this game last year. Not only are they awful, but they are 10x worse when you learn that he was being guarded by 6'6" Kim English (a thin-framed end of the bench SG for the Pistons).

http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=320350142

I can't ignore that. That's pathetic. No good NBA player puts up a performance like that. Even if he's developed a lot in the last year, I'll pass.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I 

Post#420 » by Halcyon » Wed Jan 9, 2013 9:27 pm

Withey will be a fringe first rounder on his size alone. Add in his 5.2 blks and he's probably a definite first rounder. With that said (I have not seen him play this year) his stats are pretty underwhelming for a redshirt senior aside from his blocked shots. No-go for me as well, probably a Chris Andersen type at best.

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