DET Vs UTA @ 7:30p

[Jodi]

Man, that was a horrible lost tonight...If we're going to continue to play Stuckey 22 minutes off the bench we might as well trade him...We need a starting caliber SG in the worst way possible...Bad game for Monroe too, he needs to stop being so soft and take care of the ball...

[menten]

monroe is one of the worst players in the league, no offensive game and a terrible defender

have you watched him this season? 90 % of his points are from bunnies and putbacks. he cant shoot from midrange and cant create his own offense. defensively he's on bargnanis level. the team almost always plays worse with him on the court. you know youre team is **** when the first option is a center that shoots 46% from the field and is an all time bad defender. trade him for cousins pls

[dan2314]

we are in games, leading a lot of them, and getting some good wins of late, we need to stop over reacting to a 3 point loss.

[menten]

also, mcgee is a smarter person than lawrance frank. kuester was btw a better coach as well

[menten]

wow, monroe averages almost as many TOs as assist, what a bum, haha

[MrBigShot]

I'm personally a bit disappointed with Moose's consistency. For a lot of players, their stat averages are not indicative of the type of performances they put up game by game. Kobe for example, routinely dropped 40 or 50 points in his 35ppg season, mixed in with plenty of games ranging from 20 to 34.

Of the 38 games we've played, Moose has had 17 games with 17 or more ppg. He's also had 12 games where he has scored 12 or less. He definitely needs to cut down on turnovers, but I'm encouraged by the fact that when he plays well and executes the skills that he is capable of using, his stats are a lot better than the 15/9 he has been putting up...

Inconsistency is apart of player development though, I guess. I want to see consistent effort/rebounding/defense from Moose more than anything else and I hope that after the all star break he begins to put together a consistent stretch similar to his rookie year.

If we're comparing Monroe's 3rd season to Kobe in his prime MVP season, then I agree he's having a bad year. lol

It's a good thing we aren't comparing them then, and I'm not sure what your agreeing with..given that I didn't say he's having a bad year.

Inconsistent year =/= bad year
Noting discrepancy in stat averages and giving an example =/= comparing two guys as players

reading comprehension

@menten: Frank is miles ahead of Kuester. Kuester was incapable of commanding respect from his players, wasn't a great motivator, or a good in-game coach.

[mercury]

If G.M. swapped his 1st half with the 2nd we would be complimenting him... things tend to multiply at the end... still no excuses for 7 t.o.s

[Mr. Krabs]

What happened to this board?

[retrolenny]

I know Monroe and Knight turn it over a lot, but I just want to point out the top ball handlers on other teams turn it over just as much if not more. So stop overreacting to our TOs, esp given how young our guys are in comparison.

League Leaders in TOs


1. James Harden - HOU 133
2. Jrue Holiday - PHI 125
3. Russell Westbrook-OKC124
4. Greivis Vasquez - NOH 119
Kobe Bryant - LAL 119
6. Kevin Durant - OKC 118
7. Jeremy Lin - HOU 115
8. Rajon Rondo - BOS 114
9. Brandon Knight - DET 110
Damian Lillard - POR 110
11. Greg Monroe - DET 109
O.J. Mayo - DAL 109
13. Dwight Howard - LAL 107
Stephen Curry - GSW 107
15. Monta Ellis - MIL 106
16. Andre Iguodala- DEN 105
17. Joakim Noah - CHI 100
Paul George -IND 100
LeBron James-MIA 100
20. Kyrie Irving -CLE 99
Ty Lawson -DEN

Your assessment is not fair. Rondo is listed #8 on this list. He leads the league in assists. A much better way to gage a players liability would be the assist to turnover ratio. Players like Rondo would be closer to the bottom of the list, unlike Moose & Knight who would rank much higher.

[princeofpalace]

Moose has a 1-1 ATO ratio , which is pretty damn good for a C. Not sure what the commotion is about. Knight though is below average as far as ATO is concerned for his position

[vege]

What happened to this board?

3 years of loosing and horrible ball

[retrolenny]

Man, that was a horrible lost tonight...If we're going to continue to play Stuckey 22 minutes off the bench we might as well trade him...We need a starting caliber SG in the worst way possible...Bad game for Monroe too, he needs to stop being so soft and take care of the ball...

We have a starting caliber SG in Stuck. Stuck was a borderline All Star during a long stretch of his play last year. That occurred when they moved Stuck to SG. Rodney started out this season poorly and was demoted in favor of Singler. While I think Singler is serviceable, Rodney's demotion is blasphemous.

Frank actually has a very good problem. He's got 3 players on the team that can effectively play the point and play off the ball. Stuck & Bynum currently have the best court vision but can still light it up on the court. He could confuse teams by using them interchangeably. In otherwords, if Knight is stinking up the court at PG he doesn't even have to make a substitution, just move knight to SG and Stuck to PG and vis/versa.

Singler needs to go back to the bench and allow Stuck to reassume the starting role!!

[princeofpalace]

Man, that was a horrible lost tonight...If we're going to continue to play Stuckey 22 minutes off the bench we might as well trade him...We need a starting caliber SG in the worst way possible...Bad game for Monroe too, he needs to stop being so soft and take care of the ball...

We have a starting caliber SG in Stuck. Stuck was a borderline All Star during a long stretch of his play last year. That occurred when they moved Stuck to SG. Rodney started out this season poorly and was demoted in favor of Singler. While I think Singler is serviceable, Rodney's demotion is blasphemous.

Frank actually has a very good problem. He's got 3 players on the team that can effectively play the point and play off the ball. Stuck & Bynum currently have the best court vision but can still light it up on the court. He could confuse teams by using them interchangeably. In otherwords, if Knight is stinking up the court at PG he doesn't even have to make a substitution, just move knight to SG and Stuck to PG and vis/versa.

Singler needs to go back to the bench and allow Stuck to reassume the starting role!!

Rodney requested to go to the bench. He was atrocious to start the season and has been sub par all season long, he is not a starting caliber player at this point. He is a guy who is incredibly ball dominant to the detriment of the team- he's Cory Maggette, Tyreke Evans, Jamal Crawford without a jumper.

When Stuckey is in the game, the floor spacing is horrendous and its harder for the entire team to score- that was the problem with our starting lineup- lack of spacing. The problem has become apparent again on the bench when we play Stuckey with Bynum. Frank needs to play either Stuckey or Bynum but not both and there is no way at all Stuck should be allowed to start.

Additionally, Stuckey' doesnt have good court vision, all he does is pound the ball straight into his defenders and yell "hey" when he thinks he's fouled. We are lucky if he passes the ball out, Stuckey is the king of bad possessions.

Singler may not be the answer at SG, but neither is Stuckey. Its time to try Austin Daye at the 2 to spread the floor and reduce 1 of Bynum/Stuckey to spot minutes.

[retrolenny]

Man, that was a horrible lost tonight...If we're going to continue to play Stuckey 22 minutes off the bench we might as well trade him...We need a starting caliber SG in the worst way possible...Bad game for Monroe too, he needs to stop being so soft and take care of the ball...

We have a starting caliber SG in Stuck. Stuck was a borderline All Star during a long stretch of his play last year. That occurred when they moved Stuck to SG. Rodney started out this season poorly and was demoted in favor of Singler. While I think Singler is serviceable, Rodney's demotion is blasphemous.

Frank actually has a very good problem. He's got 3 players on the team that can effectively play the point and play off the ball. Stuck & Bynum currently have the best court vision but can still light it up on the court. He could confuse teams by using them interchangeably. In otherwords, if Knight is stinking up the court at PG he doesn't even have to make a substitution, just move knight to SG and Stuck to PG and vis/versa.

Singler needs to go back to the bench and allow Stuck to reassume the starting role!!

Rodney requested to go to the bench. He was atrocious to start the season and has been sub par all season long, he is not a starting caliber player at this point. He is a guy who is incredibly ball dominant to the detriment of the team- he's Cory Maggette, Tyreke Evans, Jamal Crawford without a jumper.

When Stuckey is in the game, the floor spacing is horrendous and its harder for the entire team to score- that was the problem with our starting lineup- lack of spacing. The problem has become apparent again on the bench when we play Stuckey with Bynum. Frank needs to play either Stuckey or Bynum but not both and there is no way at all Stuck should be allowed to start.

Additionally, Stuckey' doesnt have good court vision, all he does is pound the ball straight into his defenders and yell "hey" when he thinks he's fouled. We are lucky if he passes the ball out, Stuckey is the king of bad possessions.

Singler may not be the answer at SG, but neither is Stuckey. Its time to try Austin Daye at the 2 to spread the floor and reduce 1 of Bynum/Stuckey to spot minutes.

Stuck started this season like a bum but I think he has shown improvement as the season has gone on. He needs more minutes and he needs to start again. I'm not willing to give up on him yet unless he is part of a package to acquire Gordon!!

[Goldtop]

I think Stuckey is this eras Stackhouse. A scorer who's capable of getting you 25 on any given night, but is not conducive to winning championships, and will need to eventually be moved if we want to get to that level, like we had to do with Stackhouse. Like Stack, when Stuckey is "on", he's as gifted a scorer as any combo guard in the league. But he's just not consistent, and its hard to win with a player who you never know what you are going to get from game to game.

[Scout Taron]

I think Stuckey is this eras Stackhouse. A scorer who's capable of getting you 25 on any given night, but is not conducive to winning championships, and will need to eventually be moved if we want to get to that level, like we had to do with Stackhouse. Like Stack, when Stuckey is "on", he's as gifted a scorer as any combo guard in the league. But he's just not consistent, and its hard to win with a player who you never know what you are going to get from game to game.

Stuckey wishes he was as consistent as Stackhouse

[Jodi]

Yeah, I think either we need to start Stuckey and allow him to finish his contract here in style or trade him...I thought Stuckey would flourish coming off the bench but I think he needs to be given more minutes to be productive...I have no idea why Frank hasn't made a change in our starting line-up yet...Knight/Stuckey back-court played well last season, I have no doubt it can be productive again it given another chance...

[Goldtop]

I know Monroe and Knight turn it over a lot, but I just want to point out the top ball handlers on other teams turn it over just as much if not more. So stop overreacting to our TOs, esp given how young our guys are in comparison.

League Leaders in TOs


1. James Harden - HOU 133
2. Jrue Holiday - PHI 125
3. Russell Westbrook-OKC124
4. Greivis Vasquez - NOH 119
Kobe Bryant - LAL 119
6. Kevin Durant - OKC 118
7. Jeremy Lin - HOU 115
8. Rajon Rondo - BOS 114
9. Brandon Knight - DET 110
Damian Lillard - POR 110
11. Greg Monroe - DET 109
O.J. Mayo - DAL 109
13. Dwight Howard - LAL 107
Stephen Curry - GSW 107
15. Monta Ellis - MIL 106
16. Andre Iguodala- DEN 105
17. Joakim Noah - CHI 100
Paul George -IND 100
LeBron James-MIA 100
20. Kyrie Irving -CLE 99
Ty Lawson -DEN

Your assessment is not fair. Rondo is listed #8 on this list. He leads the league in assists. A much better way to gage a players liability would be the assist to turnover ratio. Players like Rondo would be closer to the bottom of the list, unlike Moose & Knight who would rank much higher.

I agree about Rondo, but most of the top players on their teams have ratios more like this:

Kobe: 4.8 asts - 3.3 TOs
Harden: 5.3 asts - 3.7 TOs
Durant: 4.3 asts - 3.3 TOs
Irving: 5.6 asts - 3.7 TOs
Howard: 1.8 asts - 3.2 TOs
Monroe: 3.5 asts - 3.4 TOs
Noah: 4.0 asts - 3.2 TOs
Knight: 4.4 asts - 2.9 TOs

The funny this is Knight gets criticized for his TOs more than any of the players on this list, and he actually avg the least.

[roc]

just to play devil's advocate for a second...

only 2 players on that list are PGs... Knight and Irving

and all players on that list are doing a lot more in terms of all around game to help cancel out the miscues.

We need to be patient though and see how he progresses as he hopefully becomes more attuned/accustomed to his role with more experience in hand.

[Goldtop]

^agreed. The initial debate was about Monroe's turnovers though. I put up the list to show that all top players on their teams have a lot of turnovers, regardless of position. Its just a byproduct of them handling the ball the most and being relied on to try and make plays.

Knight and Monroe aren't as good as Durant and Westrbook, so naturally they aren't doing as much elswhere to cancel out their miscues. But they are still the top 2 ball handlers on their team, so the TOs are still going to be about the same as a Durant/Westbrook or Kobe/Howard combo.

Its doing those other things like elite scoring, passing, and shot-blocking etc that makes them superstars, while Knight/Monroe aren't. But like you said they are young and shouldn't be expected to be playing like superstars right now.