RGM's Top 25 Most Valuable Players - Vote for #14

[HartfordWhalers]

Wow. Really excited to see the George rally to get the nom nod.

This time I'm going to go with Holiday. Great stats (minus the turnovers), really really young. First year given full time pg duties and is looking like a borderline all star. If he fails to get the nod this time, I will do him justice with a longer post.

Instead, here is an anti-Bosh/Bosh-rationalize rant:

I can see the argument for Bosh. And if LMA was so high, Bosh isn't that different. The thing is, Bosh is expensive: 17,545,000 this year and 19,067,500 after that. Then he already has an opt out. So, between being pricey and not guaranteed to stay past next season, his value takes a hit. And if you don't have a first option, I wouldn't trade for him and expect him to carry you (the way Harden has Houston). Bosh basically is an expensive second to third fiddle, making his value highly reduced to any team not a contender. All of those teams would prefer someone like Favors, who will probably never reach Bosh's level.

And if your a team like OKC, where Bosh could be your third fiddle... would you rather have Bosh at 17.5m/19m next two years or Ibaka at 2.25/12.25? Its not even close Ibaka fits better as a third option with ~7m of extra salary room and the potential to keep getting better. Heck, I think an OKC might take Favors at 4.7/6 over the next two years, and have 13m a year to spend on a Kevin Martin/Iguodala/Milsap to fill out their roster.

I think Bosh is a very good player, but his skill set, contract, and age make him a tough sell in terms of raw trade value. I don't see him top 25 in this league, not when you can have young players that are breaking out to near all star level status (Holiday/Curry) and locked in more years and cheaper.

Bonus rant:
Also, Favors needs to show considerably more to deserve a nomination here. Being young and athletic alone only goes so far, and he's dangerously close to put up or just be another athletic freak that never did much great in the NBA.

So:
Nominate: Holiday
Voting: Kobe -- he could kill all of his trade value with his no trade clause. But assuming he didn't, I don't think the salary is such a deal breaker to not have him here.

Picking someone next will be tough. Wade was the last of my previosu list, but I think there is a legitimate argument to consider someone like George over Wade. Or Lillard if this can sprawl out another week or two and he keeps it up. Or Deron if he looks like Utah Deron, but I think he needs months not weeks to convince me at his salary and after last year for the team formerly from New Jersey.

A Dwight rental should be at some point in the top 20, but it still seems too soon. Would a team like GS give up Curry to have him now and hope to wow him about the bay area? Its an interesting idea, but I think between his health and what is in his head attitude about where he would play, few teams would risk trading that much. Bogut maybe. But Curry no.

Rubio unproven off an injury and of questionable shooting, M. Gasol very solid but unspectacular, and Drummond (playing under 29mpg and shooting under 40% ft%) seems premature in a league with several spectacular athletic centers (McGee, DeAndre Jordan) that have maintained consistently limited.

[Ian Kognitow]

Vote: Damian Lillard
Nominate: Serge Ibaka

[Sasaki]

I am curious about anyone else if they have an opinion on my Duncan nomination, whether it's "interesting" or 'what the heck are you thinking?" Holliday, Ibaka, and Bosh are good choices, but I think Duncan is quite a bit better than all three of them as a player, he has value to a rebuilding team purely through the discipline and showing a team culture which he could do better than anyone in the league, he's not signed to anywhere near a ridiculous contract when you can argue for him being the best big man in the league after all these years. Of course, the chances of the Spurs actually trading Duncan is less than 0 and I think you can play the NTC card especially since I don't think Duncan would leave the Spurs period unlike Kobe who you could possibly see leaving for some contender, but then again the chances of the Heat trading Lebron aren't much better after all and I don't like judging it on "this guy actually could be traded."

I also agree with Hartford in that while I can see an argument for Lillard, I have to seriously question anyone who votes for Drummond or Rubio or nominates Favors. Rubio has visibly struggled so far, and there have been far too many athletic big men who played well in limited minutes but just became "good" for me to think they should go this high.

[HartfordWhalers]

I am curious about anyone else if they have an opinion on my Duncan nomination, whether it's "interesting" or 'what the heck are you thinking?" Holliday, Ibaka, and Bosh are good choices, but I think Duncan is quite a bit better than all three of them as a player, he has value to a rebuilding team purely through the discipline and showing a team culture which he could do better than anyone in the league, he's not signed to anywhere near a ridiculous contract when you can argue for him being the best big man in the league after all these years. Of course, the chances of the Spurs actually trading Duncan is less than 0 and I think you can play the NTC card especially since I don't think Duncan would leave the Spurs period unlike Kobe who you could possibly see leaving for some contender, but then again the chances of the Heat trading Lebron aren't much better after all and I don't like judging it on "this guy actually could be traded."

He's in the deserves a nom vote, doesn't deserve to win the nom vote, imo. Again, the NTC and how you feel about it is key.

[Dr Positivity]

Favors per 36 stats are still very good (15/10/2.5) for a 21 year old C who's played like 3650 minutes in the league. The other thing about him is that with his age and MP he should be rated like he's in his 2nd season. There are multiple players in the 2011 draft like Knight, Parsons, Kemba who are over 3000 minutes and should end up easily ahead of Favors in MP at their current rate by the end of the season and most of the players in the 2011 draft are older than Favors. Greg Monroe for all intents and purposes is a year ahead of Favors, not only is he a year older but the difference between them in MP is essentially a season, at 5500+ Monroe has played just under 1900 minutes more than Favors, while in 11-12 Monroe had 2082 MP total. Jrue Holiday has played 8154 MP, which is like roughly 2 season+ more in MP. I'm fine with the Holiday nom at this point (his contract is amazing) but Favors is much more of a prospect pick than him. With Holiday teams would be trading for what he is now, with Favors they'd be dealing for potential

So basically you've got a guy with the age and development reps of many 2nd year players, who stylistically is playing the position with the highest trade value (Center with defensive anchor potential). Even if his offense doesn't go past 10-15ppg I think if he's putting up 10 reb and 2-2.5 blks while being one of the biggest guys in the league physically, that's a player many teams are going to want to plug into their lineup. But I believe a lot of teams would think there's untapped potential in Favors offensively, there might even be some convinced he can be Dwight Howard 2.0 - enough to trade an absolute ton for him.

[JoseRizal]

V: DWill
N: BLopez

[theokie]

Gasol

Ibaka

[lewdog]

Vote: Damian Lillard
Nominate: Serge Ibaka

+1
These two young studs are locked up with their respective teams for 4 plus years. They both are in perfect situations to continue their development.

[vincecarter4pres]

Apparently Rudy Gay should be #2,3 and 4 on this list by the latest article out of Memphis.

[Drax]

V: Lillard
N: Holiday

[JustinSane]

Vote: Marc Gasol

He's got no weaknesses. Better than average at everything adds up to outstanding. I'm not convinced there is a more effective center in the game right now (though Duncan may well be). And he's relatively young.


I'd vote Drummond, but can't shake the feeling it'd be a homer pick. I do think Drummond is much, much more likely to reach his potential than his pre-draft scouting report. By all accounts he's had an impeccable work ethic and attitude since he was drafted, and is also very bright. Reportedly, the Pistons test rookies on what they've been taught on the scheme and such, and his recall was unusually good. He looks at tape with the team's big man coach before every game. His effort level is as consistent as I can remember seeing from a young player of his size. However, I'm a Pistons fan, and I'm sure if I lived somewhere the beat writers were hyping another talented young player I'd be a lot more hyped on whoever that was. I'm not sure it's possible for me to be objective on this one.

Nominate: Brook Lopez, as I can't argue at all with Trade Joe's post. I haven't gotten a chance to watch them much, and didn't know he was good defensively now. Sold. As soon as he's nominated I'm back on the MKG bandwagon though.

[babyjax13]

Vote: Andre Drummond

The question for me is, "who do you want on your team." At this point most of these players have contractual issues or are getting older. Drummond is young, athletic, big...everything you want in a prospect. Plus, he's already showing flashes of being something special.

Nominate: Brook Lopez

I've been a fan since day one, I think he's a fantastic player. Although it is really hard for me not to nominate Favors.

[roc]

V Andre Drummond
N Greg Monroe

Bigs are much harder to come by than PGs

[SamBone]

Vote: DWill
Nominate: Holiday

[Quackenboss]

Gasol
Holiday

[shrink]

V Kobe
N Lin

For those who didn't read the article I linked to:

That’s not to say teams don’t benefit from signing players with global appeal. Just look at Lin in New York. During the height of Linsanity in February, stock in the Madison Square Garden Company, owner of the Knicks, rose 15%. (By contrast, since the reports surfaced last week that the Knicks probably weren’t going to match Houston’s offer for Lin, the stock fell 9%). Lin’s popularity helped the MSG Network, which broadcasts Knicks games, break an impasse with one of its most important TV distributors, Time Warner Cable (Time Warner Cable was spun off in 2009 from Time Warner, TIME’s corporate parent.)

http://keepingscore.blogs.time.com/2012/07/19/can-jeremy-lins-appeal-in-china-really-help-houstons-bottom-line/#ixzz2I0CTjesE

MSGC is worth $3.5 billion. 15% of that is about half a billion dollars.

Who knows the figure on the cable deal, but it's huge too.

http://paidcontent.org/2012/02/14/419-can-jeremy-lin-end-the-msgtime-warner-cable-war/

I'm voting for the most marketable guy every single time now.

[shrink]

My updated list:

1. LeBron
2. Durant
3. Kobe - who cares about an extra ten million in salary? May be #2.
4. Linn

[Trader_Joe]

Shrink,

I think you're taking this to a new extreme.

Winning is what ultimately matters. Why was Lin relevant last year on the Knicks? Because they were winning.

GM's are the ones making trades and care about winning...not an owner's pocket.. and again I think the fans, the players, coaches and FO ultimately would question why they are working for a team if they make "marketing" the #1 priority.

Are you saying we should simply go by all-star votes or jersey sales and this thread is meaningless?
I don't think so, and I don't think you really believe Houston would not trade Jeremy Lin for Kyrie Irving, Anthony Davis, Russel Westbrook, Melo, Blake and plenty of other players. Or if they wouldn't, I'd be pissed a fan, player, coach or GM.

Again, until you can show me a trade where a team clearly overpaid for the production of a player because of his marketing value, I think this is marketing angle is way overblown and perhaps gimmicky.

[Trader_Joe]

V Kobe
N Lin

For those who didn't read the article I linked to:

That’s not to say teams don’t benefit from signing players with global appeal. Just look at Lin in New York. During the height of Linsanity in February, stock in the Madison Square Garden Company, owner of the Knicks, rose 15%. (By contrast, since the reports surfaced last week that the Knicks probably weren’t going to match Houston’s offer for Lin, the stock fell 9%). Lin’s popularity helped the MSG Network, which broadcasts Knicks games, break an impasse with one of its most important TV distributors, Time Warner Cable (Time Warner Cable was spun off in 2009 from Time Warner, TIME’s corporate parent.)

http://keepingscore.blogs.time.com/2012/07/19/can-jeremy-lins-appeal-in-china-really-help-houstons-bottom-line/#ixzz2I0CTjesE

MSGC is worth $3.5 billion. 15% of that is about half a billion dollars.

Who knows the figure on the cable deal, but it's huge too.

http://paidcontent.org/2012/02/14/419-can-jeremy-lin-end-the-msgtime-warner-cable-war/

I'm voting for the most marketable guy every single time now.

So why didn't NY match his contract if he was worth half a billion dollars?
Ask yourself that.

[Guy986]

You know i wouldn't be completely opposed to a Kevin Love/Ridnour/1st round pick for Lin swap.

Infact i think i like it.