Hawks @ Wizards - 01/12/13 7:00PM CSN

[Earth2Ted]

Grrrrrrrrrrrreat to see Wall back. It was very predictable that the Wiz would have one of their best games - with the crowd and players getting pumped up by Wall's return and the team being more healthy than it's been all season. Wall's ability to get to the rim makes a huge difference in the Wiz' offensive capability.

I was really happy with that game from Wall. What a relief that he still has those wheels and that swag. And that's something that we can never take for granted here in DC, not after what happened to Gilbert and after this past week's nightmare with RG3.

I was impressed that he had a little bit more body control driving the lane than I remember him, both in terms of staying on his feet and converting the bucket. Obviously that jumper still needs work- but the fact that we are talking about that instead of his knee- that's a good thing.

[TheKingOfVa360]

I think we can win four straight games or more. Shouldn't have a problem beating Orlando and the Kings can be beat on the road. Wall makes a huge difference on this team. His defense was nasty and offense pretty good

[TheKingOfVa360]

^^^
I agree with everything you said(cept that it was SVG not JVG that said that). There are a lot of players I feel John is on the same level with or near but he doesnt get much props because his team sucks. Kyrie may be a better scorer than Wall(by a lot) but Wall's passing, playmaking and defense is >>>

There are only a few PG in the league that are clearly better than Wall and that's

Parker
Rose
Paul
Wesbrook
Rondo
------------------------------------
I feel like Wall's at least on par with the 2nd group. *It should be noted that outside of the Kyrie maybe, Wall has had the worst supporting cast*
Deron Williams
Jrue
Rubio
Curry
Kyrie
Lillard


Injures aside, Wall is a star in the making. Only Grunfield and a jumpshot can stop him
from becoming the best PG in the league. Last night he didnt have any steals but he caused 3 forced to's as soon as he checked in and Beal picked up 2 steals because of that. People rave about Rubio but Wall's impact is greater than his because he can score and they're almost about a wash on passing with the slight edge to Rubio. I just wish the Wizards fans would support John lke other teams support their star PG. I think a lot of wiz fans are scared to give Wall props to make it seem like their not a homer on the general board.

I agree 100 percent. Wall with a jump shot would be right up there with Chris Paul. Wall is just as good as all those 2nd tier pg's yet he gets bashed. He never got to play with talent ever. Irving gets a pass for stat padding and losing and playing no defense. Yet Wall plays hard on defense every night and makes the right pass on offense and he gets bashed.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I sort of flipped last week on this poster from another team for even talking about the Wizards trading Wall to his team and I promptly got my message removed and replaced with a be nice, you may have hurt his feelings-like message from one of the moderators; I get angry when I see Wizards' fans entertaining trade possibilities involving John Wall, but especially with fans from other teams. What I don't get is why people don't see what Wall brings. He is the life force of the team. How can fans who have been forced by injuries to be witness to woeful play at times and a league worst record fail to see what the Wizards have in Wall? Wall is a bonafide star, he proved that last night, every good team has theirs. From a sales perpsective, lose Wall and the franchise has zero starpower. Wall's presence on the floor bumps up everyone's will to win and play as though they belong on an NBA court because of his desire. Without Wall a certain energy and focus just isn't there.

Wall his first two seasons averaged 8 assists a season, Steve Nash didn't even do that until his last season in Dallas and he was playing with a better cast of players.

It wasn't a real game, but I'll never overlook the fact that Wall set a new rookie record for assists in an All-Star game. I think it's proof of how much more productive Wall can be if you put great talent around him.

P.S. No player in this draft equals or impacts the Wizards the way that Wall does. *SVG was pretty stupid to make such a call going off of just two seasons*

People got angry with me when I said the last thing the Wizards should do is resign Gilbert Arenas after he ruined their playoffs, opted out while injured, and demanded the Wizards give him a new contract. I was very unpopular for saying let Gil walk because he knows his body is breaking down.

AWIZZINGBULLET, my 12-yr old and 10-yr old sons agree with you! Most people don't like it when I say trade Wall. I love my sons and respect their opinions on things. I do my best to entertain what they see and what you see in Wall. But the bottom line for me is the bottom line. Is he the guy to build around? Did he have knee surgery this season and some knee problems even as a rookie? Did he get better from season one to season two? Does Wall have it? How have the Wizards done the past couple seasons? How's that jumper of Wall's and how effective has he been so far?

It's good you point out Steve Nash. Kevin Johnson was a star with the Suns at PG when Nash was drafted. Sam Cassell was also on the Suns roster. Cotton Fitzsimmons got fired as head coach and Danny Ainge became coach. Sam Cassell was traded mid-season for Jason Kidd. Nash spent a lot of time on the bench behind both Kidd and KJ his first two seasons. Nash shared the ball a lot when he started to get minutes his second season. That is one reason his stats weren't like Wall's. Flip started John Wall and made him captain day one.

Where you are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT is it took Nash many seasons and a couple coaches later to become the MVP. He was good as a starter for Dallas, but he wasn't generating the assists Wall does. Nash was a shooter who played off of Dirk. It took Nash about three years as a starter for Dallas (his fifth season overall) until he became an all star-caliber player. It took D'Antoni's system to make Nash an MVP.

So, you've made a point about Wall. Why not expect him to get great over time? Don't even think about trading John Wall right now. Right, AWIZZINGBULLET?

My point is that unlike Nash, Wall went #1 overall. He is paid more than anyone else in his draft class. John Wall will generate a max contract. So far, his production has been level and IMO not nearly as effective as even early Steve Nash. That is not counting his defensive potential or athleticism and merely focusing on shooting and turnovers. I've seen game managers with far less talent be more effective players. (Holiday, Collison, Lawson, Jennings, Irving) Better shooters can execute things Wall can't, whereas he can get to the line and has great court vision with even better speed.

I don't know, AWIZZINGBULLET, who's right. I just am willing to let you know why I think the way I do.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Maybe I missed it, but why was crawford inactive again? Injury? Trade?

I'm guessing injury, although I think he'll be traded.

It will be a solid move if he is traded. Crawford improved but the Wizards won two straight without him and I like the mix of veterans and youth now in the backcourt and on the perimeter.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Wall played amazing for first game.....bravo. Beal was wide open many times, just needs practice.

Also love Ariza's defense.

Now is around the time Ernie Grunfeld can start to breathe a sigh of relief. Ariza really is a good defender. He takes a few bad shots but otherwise helps with defense and also good passing.

There absolutely is no justifying his contract, because a guy like Webster is a net positive while making much less than Ariza. Trevor and Emeka Okafor are not bad players. They just make more money than their basketball worth, perhaps. Why I think Ernie can breathe now is the Wizards just might start playing so well with these players they will attract some suitors for both Ariza and Okafor, as well as for guys like Jordan Crawford, Kevin Seraphin, and Jan Vesely.

Induveca, I really wanted to dislike Ariza after the trade but right around the time Ariza got hurt he was playing some very good basketball. Same with A. J. Price. It's not like the guy cannot play. Things are getting better now with players healthy.

[Ruzious]

The stats don't really show it, but I thought Ariza played very well. He was unselfish, really passed the ball around well, and he is a top defender. On the season, while his shooting has been terrible, he's gotten 8 rebounds and 3 steals per 40 minutes. Overall, he might be a better fit with Wall than Webster is. And was it just me, or does AJ Price look like an above average backup PG? He did a nice job of running the offense when he was in. But there's no doubt that he needs to improve his shooting percentages. Sorry, but I am not a Garrett Temple believer. He just does not have offensive ability. Kudos to him for making it to the NBA, but he shouldn't be on the floor except at the end of blowouts.

I agree that Ariza has played well and is probably a bit more effective out there than many (including myself) give him credit for. But I still think Webster is the better fit in the starting lineup. Webster is deadly with the corner 3. He is currently shooting 49% from there and his ability to space the floor really makes the offense run smoother (particularly with Wall). And although he isn't as disruptive of a defender in the passing lanes as Ariza, I think Webster is pretty solid on defense. It's nice to have Ariza around though, to bring in to slow down any wing who gets hot.

If nothing else, Wittman should find a way to boost Ariza's minutes without cutting Webster's. Webster can slide over to SG when Beal sits. Or, alternatively, Ariza's rebounding should allow him to steal a few minutes at PF alongside Webster. It's not like we're getting good play from the PF spot from anyone else on the roster besides Nene.

I agree with you about Temple and have been a somewhat lonely voice on the matter since you left the board. Temple has been a nice find for a D-Leaguer and he has managed to run the offense more effectively than Mack or Livingston, but he's definitely not a legit rotation player in this league. It's fine to have him at the end of the bench as versatile 5th guard who can fill in for an injured player at PG, SG or SF, and maybe play a little D out there, but people need to stop deluding themselves into believing he is anything more than that.

The odd man out seems to be Singleton. They experimented with him at the 4, and that didn't work. He showed some defensive potential, but being the worst of 3 offensively challenged 3's (Webster's the best offensively, but that's a lefthanded compliment)... most GM's are smart enough to not have as many offensively challenged players at the same position.

I think Webster and Ariza will go 50/50 at the 3. Booker will get some time at the 4. The Nene/Okafor combo seems to have merit - as Okafor's putting up good rebounding stats and gives the impression of being solid defensively. Nene can play with any big - be it a PF or C - and I thought he did a great job on Josh Smith - who's as athletic a big as there is. The offense seems to be set on Okafor and Seraphin shooting far too many 18 foot jump shots. They need to look at why Seraphin and Vesely were effective late last season, figure out why the situation changed, and determine how they can change the situation back - or determine it's not worth changing back. I'm all over the place, so I'll stop here.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Ruz, it really is good to have you posting. I worried a bit when you weren't …

Now there are some odd men out in rotation. You mention Singleton as one. I think that is worth a whole new thread, but I hate to start so many thread. What about the young Wizards now that there is a full roster?

[closg00]

CCJ - I don't believe that Ernie is/was in jeopardy to lose his job. If you look at the attendance numbers, they are about where they have been the past few years. Sure, you can always pick-up cheapie tix on Stub Hub, but the marquee games at Verizon always sell-out or are near sell-outs. Ted has publically stated that ticket sales are a motivating factor for him. Ted has never fired a GM and he doesn't know enough about basketball to want to fire Ernie.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Ticket sales are also why I think Wall will be signed to a max deal, closg.

It doesn't matter what is made of Wall's numbers by me or anyone else. Just like with Gil, the owner cares about attendance and marketing. It is a star's league. John is certainly marketable. Yep, Ernie is keeping his job … even if the visiting team has many fans in the stands.

[dobrojim]

AJ Price is killing us out there...he's a turnover machine

apologies if this was already addressed

Price had ONE TO in the game.

[dobrojim]

You gotta love how Wall is trying to get Vesely involved. Vesely still sucks, but it's sure not John's fault.

no question Ves had a bad game.

that said, the first 2 fouls were ticky tack

the 2 lobs were not thrown to a place he could do anything with them.

[dobrojim]

Those pretty much are his averages

I want to see
24/11/5/2 from wall in 30mins
22/4/4/2 from beal in 30 mins
18/2 steals from webster in 26 mins
10/8 from nene in 25mins
10/10/3blks from okafor in 30 mins

In 30 mins?..impropable
The last person to average 24/11(ast) I would bet, prolly was Magic(My guess) and that was like 25 years ago and he did that playing almost 38mins a game. The wizards would have to play at a pace faster the 2004-2009 suns for Beal and Wall to average that much

Ok 23/10/5/2 in 33mins and 33mins for beal

Wizards can be the eastern thunder especially if they get dmc...kd is split between beal and webster...wall a passing westbrook

Trade crawford seraphin and that 1st rd(or both 2nd rds)...for dmc
Then Trade nene for some cheap assets and a 1st rd

dmc is a bad player. We don't need more of these.
Wall <<< Westbrook
(right now at least, in our fondest wet dream, Wall ~ Westbrook)

[dobrojim]

Wall played amazing for first game.....bravo. Beal was wide open many times, just needs practice.

Also love Ariza's defense.

was shocked after the game to hear Ariza had 9 boards. Partly as a result of that,
we outrebounded ATL by a solid margin.