What Happened to Kirk Hinrich?

ChicagoChris · Post #1 » by **ChicagoChris** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:39 pm

He was a productive and improving player throught the 06-07 season. then he kind of took a big dump and has been sub par since. seems odd for a guy to peak at age 26. I don't remember any health issues. Maybe it's been discussed here but I've never seen any explanation. Anyone know?

thanks

Post #2 » by **HomoSapien** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:42 pm

Probably the worst non-injury related decline I've seen over the last 15 years. It's inexplicable and really shouldn't be so excused. He's a 32 year old playing like a 42 year old.

Sham has outright said it's out of laziness. I wouldn't be surprised as we never heard about him working like we did with Gordon/Deng.

DuckIII · Post #3 » by **DuckIII** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:46 pm

Don't know.

EDIT: He's clearly lost some lift and athleticism. I think that is probably the biggest thing. Fortunately for us, he can still defend well and has a good floor game. But yes, his offensive decline is remarkable.

Another guy who declined pretty rapidly offensively was on the floor last night, last seen pushing Hinrich in mid-air.

sco · Post #4 » by **sco** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:51 pm

I think he made his reputation as a defensive-minded guy. As such he seems to devote an unbalanced amount of energy on that side of the floor, and is looking to get his "rest" on offense. Also, I think his style of play leads to a ton of nagging little injuries that affect his shooting, and he knows it, and therefore shies away from shooting.

Dieselbound&Down · Post #5 » by **Dieselbound&Down** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:53 pm

Charlie Donovan: [Taylor arrives to spring training] There's Jake Taylor.
Lou Brown: He was an all-star in Boston, wasn't he?
Charlie Donovan: Yeah, wound up in the Mexican League. Had problems with his knees.
Pepper Leach: Wish we had him two years ago.
Charlie Donovan: We did.
****************************************
Paxson: [Hinrich arrives to training camp] There's Kirk Hinrich
Thibs: He was all defense here in Chicago, wasn't he?
Paxson: Yeah, he wound up on the Wizards then faded off the Hawks. Had problems with his thrust.
Ron Adams (defensive assistant): Wish we had him three years ago.
Paxson: We did.

AAU Teammate · Post #6 » by **AAU Teammate** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:57 pm

He is definitely worse offensively. He's still a quality defender.

The only question that matters: when Derrick comes back, can he be a guy that defends and shoots a three?

Right now he's making less than 69% of free throws. I have absolutely no shame in saying that what he is right now is not indicative of what he'll be by year's end. Others here have mentioned how different things were for Kirk when he had shotcreators around him in Atlanta, and he was allowed to just be a guy getting open for shots.

It's true that he can't penetrate anymore as a PG, so basically right now he is a guy that purposefully does not shoot much. When Rose returns, we just basically may have a bench guard who can shoot some threes. Just basically that.

Rose being gone means complementary players have nothing to complement. See Boozer's shooting. He has to do more that isn't in his comfort zone. Now, Kirk offensively has a pretty darn small comfort zone. It's why he doesn't make much money, incidentally.

Lets not forget this note. The Bulls got rid of Asik and Brewer. In so doing, that's a lot of defense to just flat out lose. What replaced all that? Hinrich and Butler. And yes some stretching of Jo. But lets not forget: a lot of Hinrich minutes have been involved in a defense-oriented 21-15 record.

The fact that we're STILL an elite defense is a testament to not just Thibs, but also the personnel that DID replace those outgoing guys. Hinrich's defense has mattered, and I am not content evaluating that purely on what opposing PGs have done to him (or even Nate). Defense is based on team play and the team has held onto this strength, against some odds.

molepharmer · Post #7 » by **molepharmer** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:00 pm

sco wrote:I think he made his reputation as a defensive-minded guy. As such he seems to devote an unbalanced amount of energy on that side of the floor, and is looking to get his "rest" on offense. Also, I think his style of play leads to a ton of nagging little injuries that affect his shooting, and he knows it, and therefore shies away from shooting.

That, plus he has better teammates to carry the offensive load. No doubt Thibs has emphasized to Kirk about needing to run the team, to get others involved. His assist rate has skyrocketed up this year from the last several years.

AAU Teammate · Post #8 » by **AAU Teammate** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:05 pm

molepharmer wrote:
sco wrote:I think he made his reputation as a defensive-minded guy. As such he seems to devote an unbalanced amount of energy on that side of the floor, and is looking to get his "rest" on offense. Also, I think his style of play leads to a ton of nagging little injuries that affect his shooting, and he knows it, and therefore shies away from shooting.

That, plus he has better teammates to carry the offensive load. No doubt Thibs has emphasized to Kirk about needing to run the team, to get others involved. His assist rate has skyrocketed up this year from the last several years.

The assist rate has skyrocketed, but as a person who finds himself defending Kirk...I do also want to point out that we are on a team that just flat out does not have iso scorers.

Kirk gets assist because he (1) plays a lot (2) handles the ball a lot and (3) this team passes a lot. He doesn't get them because he's penetrating and drawing defenders. He doesn't get them because he's giving people the ball in a sweet spot for them.

There's no question his PG play has fallen off. If I defended his point guard play on offense I would be completely biased.

I do like his defense and believe the shooting will get back to where's been used to being.

Bomba Navarro · Post #9 » by **Bomba Navarro** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:05 pm

I was one of his biggest homers during his first stint in Chicago, but anyone can see he's not an NBA caliber player anymore. I thought he could be a player who lived off good defense and decent shooting until he was 35, but it's clear he's lost a step, and his shooting is simply atrocious. Minor injuries can definitely slow down a player, but Hinrich's case it's gotten to a point where you have to contemplate playing the inexperienced Marquis Teague, who is definitely not ready to the level of competitiveness this team requires.

Bearing in mind that he's virtually untradeable and the franchise loves him -so does Thibs, frok what I gather- at this point I'd get Kirk up in the middle of the night, take him to the Berto Center, lock him up there and tell him to shoot until his arms fall off. No playing time until he can hit set threes in his sleep. We have far too many offensive problems without Rose as to put up with Kirk's struggles.

DuckIII · Post #10 » by **DuckIII** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:09 pm

molepharmer wrote:That, plus he has better teammates to carry the offensive load. No doubt Thibs has emphasized to Kirk about needing to run the team, to get others involved. His assist rate has skyrocketed up this year from the last several years.

I agree. Its pretty obvious that Hinrich's greatly reduced shot taking is by design. Which is a good thing for reasons both complimentary to, and critical of, Hinrich.

It seems that Nate's efforts as a starter have caused the board to come around a little bit on Hinrich's value to the team running the show, which is a good thing. This realization coupled with Boozer's great play has made the board a very different place lately.

weneeda2guard · Post #11 » by **weneeda2guard** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:12 pm

kirk hinrich suffers from a disease called "larry holmes"

the symptoms are when you are flabby and sick.

The Force. · Post #12 » by **The Force.** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:16 pm

My question is: When Rose comes back, what's to come of Nate?

ManualRam · Post #13 » by **ManualRam** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:17 pm

i think it's a combination of wear and tear and lost confidence. we used to be able to see kirk hit at least 1 or 2 of those pull jumpers off of a pick n roll. now he doesn't even look for that shot...or any shot for that matter. seems like he only shoots when he has to, which leads to more pressurized shots at the end of the clock. good, confident shooters WANT to shoot. kirk doesn't. it's like the way he used to play in the 4th quarter spread out to over the course of the full game now.

he still has his merits. i wouldn't go as far to say that he's not an NBA caliber player anymore, but it would be extremely difficult to find a team that he would start for.

mj234eva · Post #14 » by **mj234eva** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:19 pm

WatchYouBleed wrote: anyone can see he's not an NBA caliber player anymore.

Come on now, that's a ridiculous statement. Couldn't be further from the truth. That describes Nazr, not Kirk.

With that said, man I really don't know what happened to the guy. I remember that 2007-2008 season when he struggled early on and I kept thinking that he would get it together, but he never did. It's been a steady decline since. Although, in Rose's rookie year he did play "okay."

He has lost all confidence in his shot imo. Even though in December he shot 44% from 3 on close to 3 attempts per game, he was still very "passive." Not shooting when he is wide open, or hesitating. Very frustrating to watch.

That's being said though, we need him. Because Nate playing "heavy" minutes isn't a reliable option.

DuckIII · Post #15 » by **DuckIII** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:22 pm

The Force. wrote:My question is: When Rose comes back, what's to come of Nate?

Bomba Navarro · Post #16 » by **Bomba Navarro** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:22 pm

The Force. wrote:My question is: When Rose comes back, what's to come of Nate?

Assuming Rip is gone by then, which is not a given at this point, we're likely to move Kirk to the 2 for some minutes, if Thibs doesn't trust Cook, which I think he does not -he doesn't usually trust newcomers from the get-go. As for the PG spot, I guess Hinrich and Robinson will take it in turns, depending on what the team needs at the moment. I have the feeling that Thibodeau is likely to favor Hinrich, who actually has a brain and can defend, but I can see him playing Nate now and then.

micromonkey · Post #17 » by **micromonkey** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:24 pm

He has the 3rd highest +/- on the team that is what happened

He is pretty much a play defense/help run offense glue guy at this point.
The dude is helping lineups win--he is a team/effort guy.

I expect him to play the 2 some when Rose comes back--potentially the Bogans role. Get ready for a remix of VDN's #1 09-10 lineup
Rose-Hinrich-Deng-Gibson-Noah

ManualRam · Post #18 » by **ManualRam** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:26 pm

The Force. wrote:My question is: When Rose comes back, what's to come of Nate?

i think he becomes the new turd

Ctownbulls · Post #19 » by **Ctownbulls** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:28 pm

TBH, his play of late has been pretty solid despite what the numbers may say. He has played solid defense and he really done a great job of grabbing rebounds/tipping rebounds. He has gotten his hands on a lot of balls recently.

Bomba Navarro · Post #20 » by **Bomba Navarro** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:30 pm

mj234eva wrote:
WatchYouBleed wrote: anyone can see he's not an NBA caliber player anymore.

Come on now, that's a ridiculous statement. Couldn't be further from the truth. That describes Nazr, not Kirk.

Right, I'll rephrase it -he's merely a third string point guard the way he's playing. That's barely NBA level.

I'm sorry, but running the team better than Nate Robinson is not something I'd praise someone for. He's looking okay on defense, nothing better than that, and he couldn't score on my hometown team's backup point guard. Can he turn it around? I don't know. I hope he can. I've always LOVED the guy.