The Trade Thread

[doc.end]

Well, it could be argued. And we may be worse at the time. But our rebuild is in front of Wizards, Pistons in terms of front office and considering Cavs got only Thompson-Waiters from consecutive No.4 picks, I like our chances better.

[Diop]

There's no guarantee that this "draft, draft, tank, develop, wait-and-see approach" will make us any better than a perennial 10-6 seed either.

I'm still waiting for you to tell me a better "plan"

This was the point of my previous rant, please explain what you would do differently.

How would you fix it?

[JMAC3]

Just Because I am bored here is a 3 crazy trades.

1. Bobcats trade with Bulls.

Bobcats in: Kirk Hinrich and our rights to our pick again
Bulls in: Gerald Henderson

why: Bulls get rid of a contract in Hinrich for next season, an expiring in Henderson who could help in playoffs with defense and another scoring option.

2. Bobcats trade with Kings
Bobcats in: DeMarcus Cousins
Kings in: Ramon Sessions, 2014 unprotected, Detroit Pick

why: they land a solid point guard in Sessions who they could resign longterm along with two really good picks most likely in the best draft class in recent years while dumping a disgruntled player.

3. Bobcats trade with Wizards
Bobcats in: Bradley Beal and Jan Vesley
Wizards in: 2013 unprotected and Portland Pick and Diop(expiring)

Why: They increase their chance to land number one pick, have two picks in top 5 most likely. Also, pick up a nice middle round pick. While dumping the bust in Vesley saving them about 4 million a year. Could get both Noel and Shabazz.


Bobcats Lineup

Kemba- Hinrich
Beal- Gordon
MKG- Taylor- Vesley
Cousins- Warrick- TT
Biz- Haywood

Lineup is extremely balanced. Really good defensive lineup and all their skills seem to compliment each other. Very good young core with a veteran bench who once they expire you can use their money to pay the young guys bigger contracts.

We give up picks, but we end up getting guys who we think can be stars in the league instead of hoping to win lottery and pick up mediocre mid first round talent.

[HornetJail]

^ The Wiz are likely to want a little more in exchange for Beal, particularly since our lineup would probably fight for a playoff spot right away. Same goes for Sacramento and DMC. I like the general principle, I think it would work great in a GM at Team game or in 2k13, but it's not something teams would fall for. But there's a hitch. You can't trade back-to-back picks. My least favorite trading rule.

[Eoghan]

I value our 2013 pick more than Beal.

[HornetJail]

I value our 2013 pick more than Beal.

I would only value Shabazz or Zeller more than Beal and I'm not even remotely high on Beal at all. That's how $h!++y this draft looks right now.

[Eoghan]

I'd value Shabazz, McLemore, Bennett, Noel, Zeller, Poythress, Cauley-Stein, McCollum, MCW, and maybe some others more than Beal.

I just don't see the hype in Beal at all.

[JMAC3]

I'd value Shabazz, McLemore, Bennett, Noel, Zeller, Poythress, Cauley-Stein, McCollum, MCW, and maybe some others more than Beal.

I just don't see the hype in Beal at all.

Maybe check out Beals line for tonight.

26 points, on 9 of 14 including 6 of 7 from three. Also threw in 3 boards, 6 assists, and a steal and a block.

[James Gatz]

I'd value Shabazz, McLemore, Bennett, Noel, Zeller, Poythress, Cauley-Stein, McCollum, MCW, and maybe some others more than Beal.

I just don't see the hype in Beal at all.

Maybe check out Beals line for tonight.

26 points, on 9 of 14 including 6 of 7 from three. Also threw in 3 boards, 6 assists, and a steal and a block.

Beal also takes good shots. When he was shooting terribly it was just because the shots weren't going in. That worried then but his numbers are now getting closer to their true averages.

[Eoghan]

Wow, Beal had one good game. So has practically every rookie this year.

Don't get me wrong, he should be an above average player but I just think almost every facet of his game from his athleticism to his shooting is overrated to an extent.

[JMAC3]

Wow, Beal had one good game. So has practically every rookie this year.

Don't get me wrong, he should be an above average player but I just think almost every facet of his game from his athleticism to his shooting is overrated to an extent.

His numbers in January are crazy good.

[Bence]

One page ago: "no other team used the Thunder model"

IMO the Thunder model is based on the Spurs model. Robinson and Duncan were two wins with the 1st picks, but just look at Parker(28.), Ginobili(57.), Splitter(28.), who are with the team right now, or Udrih(28.), Salmons(26.), George Hill(26.), Dragic(45.), Barbosa(28.), Scola(55.) who are or were of a high value seeing where they were picked. I know, for exampe Scola never played there, but you can see my point.

There are examples in my opinion... This way can be a good way, but not the only good, that's right.

[HornetJail]

That's just insanely good drafting and picking out diamonds in the rough. Not really a "rebuilding model" as such, since the Spurs were title contenders in all those years.

[Kembastockton]

Here is the secret of the Spurs, Thunder, and every other elite team. They lucked up into drafting superstars to build around. Once you have a Tim Duncan, Shaq, or Kobe Bryant building your team becomes easy. Trading and drafting becomes about finding players to complement your star instead of finding players to impact your team. Why that is important is because it is easier to find a big man to play defense, and set picks than it is to find one to put up 20 and 10 every night. It is easier to find a three point shooter than it is to find a player who can shoot, beat players off the dribble, and pull up in traffic. You no longer have to pursue free agents they want to play with your star. Legendary players like Tim Duncan make good players look great, and great players look like hall of famers. Our problem has always been that we have never had a player who was any more than slightly above average. The major problem around the league has been teams trying to build around very good players. This always results in very good seasons, but rarely a championship. If you want to win it all it almost always starts with an elite player or players.

[Man Strength]

And how exactly do you (Man Strength and Catch22) expect us to win a title?

Or are you okay with being the perennial 10-6 seed we were for the first half of the team's existence?

There have in fact been studies done on this subject by smart people with fancy academic titles and nifty excel skills. Their conclusion was that the "10-6" team is in fact more likely to move to a top 3 seed than a low end lottery team. You can be one of those teams without being in a bad salary cap situation. I think people on here spend more time thinking about salaries and picks than they do understanding talent. what we or anyone needs is talent, real talent. I hope Cho's skills show that is his strong-suit...wait too early to tell now. If you can actually identify talent, especially undervalue/underutilized talent, that is the real key.

Im not saying we should overspend, but take a good look at the better teams in the league and look at their roster makeup. it costs money to get a good player. I am a major proponent of the draft, but some I fear overvalue. it. basically you are paying a mid level contract for a top 8 pick, for a player you have no idea if they will pan out. One could easily argue that Biyombo is overpaid. Two year deals for guys like Gasol will not cripple the franchise. Im not necessarily saying do that, but it is a real option.

[SWedd523]

I'd love to take a look at one of those studies. Mind sharing?

[Man Strength]

One page ago: "no other team used the Thunder model"

IMO the Thunder model is based on the Spurs model. Robinson and Duncan were two wins with the 1st picks, but just look at Parker(28.), Ginobili(57.), Splitter(28.), who are with the team right now, or Udrih(28.), Salmons(26.), George Hill(26.), Dragic(45.), Barbosa(28.), Scola(55.) who are or were of a high value seeing where they were picked. I know, for exampe Scola never played there, but you can see my point.

There are examples in my opinion... This way can be a good way, but not the only good, that's right.

the spurs never tanked though. they were basically bad for two seasons, and luckily robinson and duncan were the picks they got those years. they were not in "draft rebuild mode" as the thunder were

[Man Strength]

I'd love to take a look at one of those studies. Mind sharing?

i will need to dig this up. been a while since I read it.

[_tijo_]

Here is the secret of the Spurs, Thunder, and every other elite team. They lucked up into drafting superstars to build around. Once you have a Tim Duncan, Shaq, or Kobe Bryant building your team becomes easy. Trading and drafting becomes about finding players to complement your star instead of finding players to impact your team. Why that is important is because it is easier to find a big man to play defense, and set picks than it is to find one to put up 20 and 10 every night. It is easier to find a three point shooter than it is to find a player who can shoot, beat players off the dribble, and pull up in traffic. You no longer have to pursue free agents they want to play with your star. Legendary players like Tim Duncan make good players look great, and great players look like hall of famers. Our problem has always been that we have never had a player who was any more than slightly above average. The major problem around the league has been teams trying to build around very good players. This always results in very good seasons, but rarely a championship. If you want to win it all it almost always starts with an elite player or players.

#1 - Shaq was signed as a free agent from Orlando. Kobe was drafted by the Hornets and then traded to the Lakers for Vlade Divac. Neither were drafted by the Lakers.

#2 - The Spurs purposely tanked and held out David Robinson for a year so that they had a better shot at the #1 pick to get Duncan. So tanking = strategy. Sonics did the same when they traded away their whole team for the Oden/Durant draft.

#3 - I see your point, but sometimes you have to find those franchise guys in other ways besides drafting them. Houston is not regretting trading for Harden, and neither is NY regretting the Carmelo trade. Same for Boston with KG, or Brooklyn with Deron, or the Clippers with CP3. Gotta explore all routes.

Building a team is organic, there is no one formula. Do your best to try and get a superstar talent how you can, and build a team that is compatible and will work cohesively. I trust Cho to do that.

[catch20two]

And how exactly do you (Man Strength and Catch22) expect us to win a title?

Or are you okay with being the perennial 10-6 seed we were for the first half of the team's existence?

There have in fact been studies done on this subject by smart people with fancy academic titles and nifty excel skills. Their conclusion was that the "10-6" team is in fact more likely to move to a top 3 seed than a low end lottery team. You can be one of those teams without being in a bad salary cap situation. I think people on here spend more time thinking about salaries and picks than they do understanding talent. what we or anyone needs is talent, real talent. I hope Cho's skills show that is his strong-suit...wait too early to tell now. If you can actually identify talent, especially undervalue/underutilized talent, that is the real key.

Im not saying we should overspend, but take a good look at the better teams in the league and look at their roster makeup. it costs money to get a good player. I am a major proponent of the draft, but some I fear overvalue. it. basically you are paying a mid level contract for a top 8 pick, for a player you have no idea if they will pan out. One could easily argue that Biyombo is overpaid. Two year deals for guys like Gasol will not cripple the franchise. Im not necessarily saying do that, but it is a real option.

Where did you come from Man Strength? Finally a sensible poster that doesn't believe in tanking as the only way to build a title contender.