Scouts advise lotto teams to unload picks. 2013

QuantumMacgyver · Post #1 » by **QuantumMacgyver** » Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:24 am

Scouts are advising teams to unload their lotto picks due to a lack of talent in this draft. This might be the perfect situation for the Jazz. For instance:

Jazz trade Mo Williams and GSW pick.
Phoenix trades Channing Frye, Kendall Marshall, and unprotected pick.

Jazz take two more years of Frye's contract in return for the lotto pick. If Frye is able to play next year then this trade really swings in the Jazz favor. Jazz also take on the 4 years on Marshall's contract but he is more filler than anything. I have hope in the kid, but not sure many FO's do.

Phoenix unloads Frye and Marshall's contracts. They now have 8 million to spend in FA. Which permits them 14 million in available salary in the off-season. 14 Million available in FA for a popular FA destination seems worth an injured Frye, underwhelming Marshall and this years average pick.

SImilar deals might be worked with the Bobcats revolving around a Tyrus Thomas/Ben Gordon salary dump. Or even the Wizards Okafor/Ariza salary dump.

Would the Jazz do it, would the other teams do it?

millslapper · Post #2 » by **millslapper** » Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:38 pm

I hope some stupid GMs make a fault now and give the Jazz some picks for Jefferson and/or Millsap because they have the official "permission" right now.

It is not important, whether the draft is good. The potential is always there. Remember where Nash, Stockton, Malone and Bryant were taken. Picks 10 to 20. So you always have a chance. it would be great to have 4 1st round picks this year 8-)

As a GM you have to think different. At the moment defensive BigMen are overrated, i think this is one result of the mavericks title run with Tyson Chandler. It seems to me, that players with great offensive potential are sorted out, only because of their defense. But really: Wouldn't you pick Steve Nash, if you had the chance again?

The Jazz should be creative.

reapaman · Post #3 » by **reapaman** » Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:54 pm

Why would phoenix give up a recent lottery pick and a unprotected lotery pick just to get whats likely to be a low 1st round pick (GS has the 7th best record in the nba whether you like it or not so forget that crap of "culture of winning") and to dump salary for a bad free agent class (2014 won't be much better) in which they will already have enough money to sign virtually anyone they want. It makes zero sense and that goes for the other teams you mentioned as well since they all have plenty of cap room. They need way more incentive to do a deal like that.

Plus the Jazz would never take on useless long term salary like that because its not their style and its not the spurs style either which is where lindsey came from. Thats especially true because they likley will wanna keep on competeing so their gonna sign more useful vets with the cap space including bringing back Jefferson.

Also scouts proven time and time again that they can be easily dead wrong and your better off using your own judgement. Prime example: 2009 was suppose to be one of the worse draft ever with griffin being the only possible allstar now in addition to him their are likely 3 more guys who are allstars (curry, harden, and holiday) and some nice parts for the future (lawson, teague, derozen, ect ...). I'm sure washington is kicking themselves for not keeping that 2009 pick and going with curry which was rumored to be their guy had they kept it. So I dought a team like washington makes that mistake again. BTW Rich Cho is a beast at drafting as long as Jordan doesn't get in the way so he's gonna keep that pick.

Litany · Post #4 » by **Litany** » Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:03 pm

I would like for us to land Trey Burke.

Right now he is projected to go at about #20, but I have a distinct feeling he is going to rise up the board and eventually go higher, likely out of our range, so we may need to make a move to get a pick high enough to get him.

Hopefully this advice from the scouts makes it easier.

Neon Black · Post #5 » by **Neon Black** » Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:35 pm

I'm on the side that hopes this sways teams to package picks to the Jazz in exchange for a Millsap or Jefferson deal. There are quite a few players I would love to see on the Jazz in this year's draft.

By the way, do you have a link to where it says scouts were reporting this?

Litany · Post #6 » by **Litany** » Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:50 pm

Neon Black wrote:I'm on the side that hopes this sways teams to package picks to the Jazz in exchange for a Millsap or Jefferson deal. There are quite a few players I would love to see on the Jazz in this year's draft.

By the way, do you have a link to where it says scouts were reporting this?

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/22 ... Draft_Pick

QuantumMacgyver · Post #7 » by **QuantumMacgyver** » Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:06 pm

reapaman wrote:Why would phoenix give up a recent lottery pick and a unprotected lotery pick just to get whats likely to be a low 1st round pick (GS has the 7th best record in the nba whether you like it or not so forget that crap of "culture of winning") and to dump salary for a bad free agent class (2014 won't be much better) in which they will already have enough money to sign virtually anyone they want. It makes zero sense and that goes for the other teams you mentioned as well since they all have plenty of cap room. They need way more incentive to do a deal like that.

Plus the Jazz would never take on useless long term salary like that because its not their style and its not the spurs style either which is where lindsey came from. Thats especially true because they likley will wanna keep on competeing so their gonna sign more useful vets with the cap space including bringing back Jefferson.

Also scouts proven time and time again that they can be easily dead wrong and your better off using your own judgement. Prime example: 2009 was suppose to be one of the worse draft ever with griffin being the only possible allstar now in addition to him their are likely 3 more guys who are allstars (curry, harden, and holiday) and some nice parts for the future (lawson, teague, derozen, ect ...). I'm sure washington is kicking themselves for not keeping that 2009 pick and going with curry which was rumored to be their guy had they kept it. So I dought a team like washington makes that mistake again. BTW Rich Cho is a beast at drafting as long as Jordan doesn't get in the way so he's gonna keep that pick.

Uhhh... 2014 class is probably one of the best Free Agent classes ever! Unless you've never heard of Kobe Bryant, Dirk Nowitski, Carmelo Anthony... oh and some dude named LeBron James. The list goes on... and on and on and on.
http://www.hoopsworld.com/2014-nba-free-agents/

The reason a team like Phoenix might make such a move is to free up cash for big time free agents. Phoenix doesn't NEED picks. They are an attractive market. The Jazz.... not so much.

reapaman · Post #8 » by **reapaman** » Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:11 pm

QuantumMacgyver wrote:
Uhhh... 2014 class is probably one of the best Free Agent classes ever! Unless you've never heard of Kobe Bryant, Dirk Nowitski, Carmelo Anthony... oh and some dude named LeBron James. The list goes on... and on and on and on.
http://www.hoopsworld.com/2014-nba-free-agents/

The reason a team like Phoenix might make such a move is to free up cash for big time free agents. Phoenix doesn't NEED picks. They are an attractive market. The Jazz.... not so much.

Most free agent list look great 2 years out ala 2012 then that year comes around an it was a dud. 2010 was a special circumstance and can't rely on that happening again. I mean Dallas relied on that crap this past off-season and they were stuck with oj mayo as the big name which will likely be the case this year (not that he's a bad player). Plus Phoenix already will have enough money for two max contracts if they din't sign any crazy long tern contracts this off-season, so why give up a good asset?

Even if the good free agents are avalible, they would have to compete with alot of teams who got tons of cap room for 2014 including the knicks and Lakers who are in much better markets. Not gonna happen and makes no sense.

Post #9 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:06 pm

it would be great to have 4 1st round picks this year

i don't know what the heck we would do with 4 1st round picks in a strong draft, let alone a weak draft.

QuantumMacgyver · Post #10 » by **QuantumMacgyver** » Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:32 pm

reapaman wrote:
QuantumMacgyver wrote:
Uhhh... 2014 class is probably one of the best Free Agent classes ever! Unless you've never heard of Kobe Bryant, Dirk Nowitski, Carmelo Anthony... oh and some dude named LeBron James. The list goes on... and on and on and on.
http://www.hoopsworld.com/2014-nba-free-agents/

The reason a team like Phoenix might make such a move is to free up cash for big time free agents. Phoenix doesn't NEED picks. They are an attractive market. The Jazz.... not so much.

Most free agent list look great 2 years out ala 2012 then that year comes around an it was a dud. 2010 was a special circumstance and can't rely on that happening again. I mean Dallas relied on that crap this past off-season and they were stuck with oj mayo as the big name which will likely be the case this year (not that he's a bad player). Plus Phoenix already will have enough money for two max contracts if they din't sign any crazy long tern contracts this off-season, so why give up a good asset?

Even if the good free agents are avalible, they would have to compete with alot of teams who got tons of cap room for 2014 including the knicks and Lakers who are in much better markets. Not gonna happen and makes no sense.

Dallas is a horrid example. They relied on that money to land Deron and only Deron. They put all of their eggs in one basket because Deron was all there was. Look at the list of restricted free agents next summer. That's where middling teams like Phoenix have a hand to play. There is a strong chance that we see a lot of Jeremy Lin/Wes Mathews style contracts that summer. All I'm saying is that if teams do indeed decide to move their picks due to a lack of "talent" in the draft, other teams aren't going to be likely to trade the farm to get them fit the same reasons. It's a sell-low, buy-low environment IF teams decide to move picks due to a lack talent.

RyanStorm · Post #11 » by **RyanStorm** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:21 am

This draft is nice....they are only saying that because there is no "great" picks in the top 10...

Like the #1 is not going to be as great as the past, it won't be filled with Durants or Chris Pauls...

But there is talent there, and if you got a 10-20 pick your still good to go...your just going to be thrilled that your not getting LeBron...

RyanStorm · Post #12 » by **RyanStorm** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:23 am

However I could see how trading our two first round picks for something great...or in a combo pack.

Neon Black · Post #13 » by **Neon Black** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:35 am

Even some of the best scouts said Kyrie Irving wouldn't be that good. I didn't buy it. It's up to every individual and team to do their own research and determine for themselves.

babyjax13 · Post #14 » by **babyjax13** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:50 am

It's the Bobcats, even if they had the number one pick - they'd figure out a way to screw it up. I think this is actually a very talented draft, even at the top. Shabazz, Noel, etc. are all great prospects. Will there be a franchise player in the draft? Maybe not (I think Shabazz could be), but there will be plenty of players who have all-star potential. This isn't the Kenyon Martin/Stromile Swift disaster.

dr0welf · Post #15 » by **dr0welf** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:56 am

I have been keeping my eye on Michigans Trey Burke and Creighton's McDermott. I like both of their games.

RyanStorm · Post #16 » by **RyanStorm** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:39 am

I have looked into every Jazz mock draft pick, and I have seen some amazing players.

Archie Goodwin, Carter-Williams, and Trey Burke, would make great guards.

Right now, hoopsworld has CJ McCollum as our potential pick, which use to be Archie before his rank went up and people realized he is a good top ten and probably better than his team mate Nerlens Noel. Anyways, McCollum is a great shooter, who is also a decent ball handler. Carter-Williams is more than likely out of reach, same with McCollum. If were lucky we will end up with one of them, between Goodwin, Williams, or McCollum.

I also have seen our 2nd 1st round pick, with Kabongo and Leslie. Both are PG's, and were more likely to pick a PG with our first pick. So our second pick is likely to be a SF. It would be nice to get someone like McAdo with our 2nd pick, but he will probably be gone in the teens. Probably end up with someone like McDermott.

For our 2nd round pick, like 43rd overall...I have no idea. Probably just pick up another Murphy/Evans to hold in our roster.

Nate505 · Post #17 » by **Nate505** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:30 am

It seems like every draft in the past 4 years or so has been "weak."

Neon Black · Post #18 » by **Neon Black** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:19 am

Nate505 wrote:It seems like every draft in the past 4 years or so has been "weak."

I know, right?

Neon Black · Post #19 » by **Neon Black** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:32 am

RyanStorm wrote:I have looked into every Jazz mock draft pick, and I have seen some amazing players.

Archie Goodwin, Carter-Williams, and Trey Burke, would make great guards.

I agree, though Archie might be out of our range - unless we pull off a Deron Williams style draft-day miracle. That said, I'd be happy with Burke, McCollum, and especially Carter-Williams. I'd encourage anyone to read up on Carter-Williams's DraftExpress profile:

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Mic ... iams-6262/

Looks like the guy is a very confident, effective distributor and facilitator which is, above all things, what would work for the Jazz. it doesn't hurt that he can turn on the scoring when needed, as well.

babyjax13 · Post #20 » by **babyjax13** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:48 pm

From a measurables and stats standpoint, Carter Williams is a dream. I haven't seen him play, but I am always a little wary of Syracuse players....although I don't think a point guard would have as many of his weaknesses hidden in that system as someone from another position. (Read Wes Johnson).