Rumors: Bobcats, Bulls, Kings three-team discussions

[85Bears]

Does the Bulls having the rights to a future Char pick that can come up any year between now and 2016, prohibit the Cats from trading any of their picks from now until then?

Example: If Cats wanted to acquire someone and wanted to offer their pick in 2014, could they? Since the Bulls may have the rights to it first? Seems this would really throw a wrench into any dealings a GM would have by limiting their assets and ability to trade for 4 years.

[DASMACKDOWN]

I really dont see how any of the deals really benefit the Bulls. At least it doesnt fit in the same mindset as the beginning of the offseason.

Having the Bobcats pick and more importantly deferred Bobcat's pick is like pure gold for the Bulls.

Thats their "in WWE terms" version of Money in the Bank. Just waiting to cash it in and claim the title.

The Bulls arent rookies in this. Its the same type deal that netted us Joakim Noah in the Curry trade.

I dont think moving Hamilton and getting back latteral talent type players is enough to make that move. Unless you feel you are getting a huge difference maker, there is no need to make a deal.

I think this is coming solely from the Bobcats end.

[DanTown8587]

Does the Bulls having the rights to a future Char pick that can come up any year between now and 21016, prohibit the Cats from trading any of their picks from now until then?

Example: If Cats wanted to acquire someone and wanted to offer their pick in 2014, could they? Since the Bulls may have the rights to it first? Seems this would really throw a wrench into any dealings a GM would have by limiting their assets and ability to trade for 4 years.

It would be incredibly hard to do so, but yes they could trade their pick as long as they were guaranteed a pick by someone (so an unprotected #1 pick) and then the Bobcats could only trade that same year's pick. So if they acquire a #1 in 2014 unprotected, they could trade the "protected" portion of their pick to someone else. They could not trade their pick in 2015.

[holv03]

If I were the Bulls I would wait around til draft night. Now if the Bobcats don't think this draft is all that good then trade the pick we get from them in 2016 for the one for the 2014 nba draft. That's only if Shabazz Muhammad is on the board which will give us our future two guard to pair along with Rose.

[BuffaloBull]

Does the Bulls having the rights to a future Char pick that can come up any year between now and 2016, prohibit the Cats from trading any of their picks from now until then?

Example: If Cats wanted to acquire someone and wanted to offer their pick in 2014, could they? Since the Bulls may have the rights to it first? Seems this would really throw a wrench into any dealings a GM would have by limiting their assets and ability to trade for 4 years.

They could do deals on draft day itself (i.e. make the pick, then trade the guy immediately to anther team). But they can't do any future deals with their pick because of the conditions on it. However, Charlotte has extra picks floating around right now from the previous deals they've done.

I understand why Charlotte would want their pick back: they've already got a lot of rookies, and outside of MKG and Kemba (and even Kemba is borderline, I think), none of them are guys you can look at and say these are a part of my core that's going to win big. They're following the OKC model, right? Well at this point they don't have a player who projects at the level of any of Durant, Westbrook, or Harden. MKG is your third guy, and the other two haven't been found yet.

If they can't find a guy who they like as a 1 or 2 in this draft, it makes a lot of sense to punt, and roll over assets to the future. Getting back their pick from us is a way to push current assets into the future.

There's too much unknown right now though. This feels like something that if it happens, needs to happen on draft day.

[misterglover]

Red Larrivee.....ok i can dig this, good debate and good points......but again I understand that this is the early stages of a rumor w/ moving parts but this is what im getting at from a Bobcats POV....this is the protection on the pick the Bobcats owe the Bulls top 12 protected in 2013, top 10 protected in 2014, top 8 protected in 2015, unprotected in 2016......with the way the Bobcats look now that pick would not transfer over to you until like 4 years.

Here's the protection on the pick the Bobcats own from POR top 12 protected in the 2013, 2014, and 2015, and unprotected in 2016....and here's the DET pick top 14 protected in the 2013 draft, top 8 in 2014, top 1 in 2015, and unprotected in 2016....now i understand that right now it looks from a Bulls POV that the 'Cats are the worst along in terms of a rebuild so there pick holds more "potential" but from a 'Cats POV there isnt much difference between the picks you have in place to replace the pick you gave away and are supposedly trying to reacquire....the only value to us getting our pick back is that we could trade it now otherwise we're just basically just saying to our fan base hey we know were gonna suck in 4 years so we need that pick.

The 'Cats would have to have a deal in place for a major player right now to give up what this potential deal states just to get a pick back especially when Cho & crew have already made backup plans by acquiring the DET & POR picks to replace the pick we owe you guys otherwise whats the point. If we dont have a deal that requires our pick that you own, then we wait until the draft and make the pick then trade that player which is legal....we are definetly gonna have a top 5 pick this year, and we're definetly gonna be making it this year. We have to have a major deal lined up that our pick in necessary to have to make this deal IMO otherwise it just would make no sense.

Again i understand this is all speculation,and im not trying to troll or be an ass.... im just playing devils advocate and trying to add a diff't POV from the other side. Rebuttals are welcome lol

[BR0D1E86]

I understand why Charlotte would want their pick back: they've already got a lot of rookies, and outside of MKG and Kemba (and even Kemba is borderline, I think), none of them are guys you can look at and say these are a part of my core that's going to win big. They're following the OKC model, right? Well at this point they don't have a player who projects at the level of any of Durant, Westbrook, or Harden. MKG is your third guy, and the other two haven't been found yet.

I can see why they'd want their pick back too. I think on a real winning team they've got one future starter there, MKG. And he's more of a Deng/Rudy Gay-level prospect than anything else.

Jason Thompson is fine I guess, but the gambler in me is happier hanging on to the pick.

[BuffaloBull]

I understand why Charlotte would want their pick back: they've already got a lot of rookies, and outside of MKG and Kemba (and even Kemba is borderline, I think), none of them are guys you can look at and say these are a part of my core that's going to win big. They're following the OKC model, right? Well at this point they don't have a player who projects at the level of any of Durant, Westbrook, or Harden. MKG is your third guy, and the other two haven't been found yet.

I can see why they'd want their pick back too. I think on a real winning team they've got one future starter there, MKG. And he's more of a Deng/Rudy Gay-level prospect than anything else.

Jason Thompson is fine I guess, but the gambler in me is happier hanging on to the pick.

Yeah I hear you.

I think holding on and seeing what happens is the default option: do nothing, get lucky, and you can wake up with a franchise player in your lap. Just imagine what Detroit might have been if they hadn't busted out on Darko!

The odds of that happening, of course, are really low: everything has to go right. So I'd say the best case scenario has maybe a 2, 3% chance of happening, in truth it's probably lower, but again, nonzero.

So if there is a scenario where you can accelerate that value, and get back something you really want, I'd consider cashing it in, especially because, when you look at this team, the current window is really now: Deng and Noah are both in their primes. Rose and Taj, in their early primes. You have Mirotic coming over. So if you can get a real player you feel can add to this group, and help you win over the next three years, then it's probably worth it. But it would have to be for a guy you really feel can move the needle, somebody who adds real value.

I think the future will take care of itself, but with a player like Rose, I'd be thinking medium term, not long term: with a little guy, and so explosive in his play, you don't know how long his prime will really last. If I'm a GM, I see my window fully open next year, and I do all I can to get the most talent in place for a real 3, 4 year run.

[BR0D1E86]

I've got no issue trading the pick, I just don't want to cash in for a backup big man. Even in a package involving someone like Tyreke Evans I could get on board, and I'm not going to be confused with the biggest Evans fan on this board.

[DuckIII]

So in short, the majority consensus is...

Thompson + CHA 2013 Unprotected Pick + Fillers = YES!
Thompson + POR 2013 Protected Pick + Fillers = NO.

AND the majority consensus is that Charlotte would have to be crazy to offer their recent top-10 lotto pick AND one of their quality players (Hendo) AND their own high lotto pick this year just to get back their owed draft pick, which could be a mid 1st rounder.

Both posts, together, summarize my thoughts. See you in February.

[The Explorer]

Do any of the scenarios in the trade(s) put the Bulls over the top to beat the Heat and Thunder? I'm not seeing it. I've been saying forever that they need more scoring on the perimeter, that is their biggest weakness right now. They need to upgrade the 2 or the 3 spot to get over the top.

[The Explorer]

I’ve seen this scenario on the Internet lately: The Charlotte Bobcats are interested in reacquiring their protected first round pick from the Tyrus Thomas trade. They’ve talked to the Bulls a few times and Bismack Biyombo was brought up in conversations. The Bulls have no interest in trading the Bobcats pick in return for a package built around Biyombo. The latest: The Bobcats have sought the Sacramento Kings as a potential third team in their efforts to reacquire their first round pick from the Bulls, according to a source. The Bobcats are trying to interest the Bulls in a young big man who could boost their frontline, like Kings forward Jason Thompson. Thompson is under contract through the 2017 season and is on the table for the Bulls. Thompson has started all 39 games for the Kings this season. In the discussions, Mohammed would go to Sacramento along with Gerald Henderson while Hamilton would go to Charlotte with the Bobcats first round pick from the Bulls. One deal that works under the CBA would have the Bulls take Jason Thompson, Jeffrey Taylor or Jimmer Fredette, along with a pick from Charlotte, the Bobcats get Rip Hamilton and their pick back from the Bulls, and the Kings taking Gerald Henderson and Nazr Mohammed.

Mike Queensworst

Sam: I’ve gotten a few emails about Jason Thompson this week, so this is where it comes from. Obviously, it is some writer who has no understanding of the Bulls roster or the NBA who is making something up. First of all, the Bulls just extended Taj Gibson. Why then would they want someone like Thompson, who is another Gibson. Plus, Thompson has a long contract that effectively would limit the ability of the Bulls to sign Mirotic. Have you seen Biyombo? Haven’t seen much indication he can play. And knowing Charlotte wants that pick back suggests you’d want to keep it as that would mean Charlotte may know come 2016 they might be losing one of the top three picks in the draft. For Tyrus Thomas. That would be sweet.

[MrSparkle]

Well fact is that even in a terrible draft, at top-10, your odds of getting a GOOD player are very high.. especially considering we have good scouting. Sure there were a few blunders but i can't imagine GarPax taking a Biyombo/Araujo bust.

I wouldn't expect Charlotte to entertain such a trade, but if they really want their slim chance 2016 pick back that badly, cashing in on a guaranteed 2013 unprotected pick would be sweet.

[BullsFTW]

BULLS GET: Thompson & The Rights to Swap 2013 Picks with the Bobcats
BOBCATS GET: Rip & Return of their Pick from the Bulls
KINGS GET: Henderson & Nazr

[League Circles]

I dont know how reliable that site is but that "rumor" seems to be a whole lot of fluff..... Nothing about that deal makes since from the Bobcats perspective at all.....why would we trade a pick we traded to get from either DET or POR to get back a pick that we may not "own" the rights to but were gonna get to make at least for a few more years anyway cuz we're nowhere near playoff contention and we could trade the pick during the draft after we actually make it as nobody short of LeBron is gonna turn our season around right now anyway and we are probably in too big of a hole for even him to do it lol, so why be in a rush to trade it when we dont even know who's coming out or where the pick is gonna fall.....2) why would we trade a pick, Gerald Henderson and maybe Jeffrey Taylor who everyone is talking about being the steal of the draft and more NBA ready than MKG for an aging Rip who probably wouldnt want to be here anyway just that in itself lets me know this is BS.....and if we were interested in trading Gerald or a pick then why would we not keep Jason Thompson ourselves as the 4/5 spots are and have been our biggest weaknesses......

I mean this article has us offering everything from a pick we acquired as an asset, our own pick, Gerald Henderson, Jeffrey Taylor, and Bismack Biyombo and get only get a pick we are gonna make anyway and Rip hamilton who if im not mistaken makes more than any player we are "supposedly" talking about trading away, so we are actually not even saving any $$$....LOL I call major, major BS on this article not 1 damn thing about this "deal" benefits Charlotte or sounds even remotely like a Cho move....Larry Brown maybe lol

Dude, please, please use sentences with periods. I have a feeling you have something smart to say here but it's unreadable.

[DuckIII]

Do any of the scenarios in the trade(s) put the Bulls over the top to beat the Heat and Thunder? I'm not seeing it. I've been saying forever that they need more scoring on the perimeter, that is their biggest weakness right now. They need to upgrade the 2 or the 3 spot to get over the top.

The only way to upgrade the 3 in a way that puts us "over the top to beat the Heat and Thunder" is to trade with them for either LeBron or Durant.

Its all about shooting guard and a 4th big for the Bulls. Everything else is peachy.

[Mattchoo]

Do any of the scenarios in the trade(s) put the Bulls over the top to beat the Heat and Thunder? I'm not seeing it. I've been saying forever that they need more scoring on the perimeter, that is their biggest weakness right now. They need to upgrade the 2 or the 3 spot to get over the top.

The only way to upgrade the 3 in a way that puts us "over the top to beat the Heat and Thunder" is to trade with them for either LeBron or Durant.

Its all about shooting guard and a 4th big for the Bulls. Everything else is peachy.

I agree, but i would also say if we could miraculously trade Boozer for Love it would put us over the top too.

[BuffaloBull]

Do any of the scenarios in the trade(s) put the Bulls over the top to beat the Heat and Thunder? I'm not seeing it. I've been saying forever that they need more scoring on the perimeter, that is their biggest weakness right now. They need to upgrade the 2 or the 3 spot to get over the top.

The only way to upgrade the 3 in a way that puts us "over the top to beat the Heat and Thunder" is to trade with them for either LeBron or Durant.

Its all about shooting guard and a 4th big for the Bulls. Everything else is peachy.

Yeah, I think one of the questions this season has ended up answering is how good, really, are Noah and Deng. I mean I think we all understood that they were good, but without Rose, you got a sense of exactly what they could bring to the table.

I think both guys have answered the bell pretty well. But I'm just going to talk about Deng.

Despite shooting the 3 terribly (and getting up 2/3 the shots from there he did last year, which to me, is due to Rose not collapsing the defense), he's upped his scoring a full two points per 36, mostly by getting to the line more and scoring more inside. And that's with him hardly ever being the first look in our offense. He also tends to score better when the guys around him are scoring better: I don't think it's a coincidence that as Boozer has caught fire in January, Luol has come with him, shooting over 50% from both the field and the 3 in the new year. That's not the case from every guy out there, there are a lot of players who become less efficient with less touches and looks.

So Luol has bounced back from the wrist injury and is giving you about as much production as you'd expect from a guy who isn't great in iso. He's playing like an all-star, especially when you factor in his D. So it gets easier to see him extending his contract and player for another 4 seasons at a high level.

Which means you can feel more comfortable adding to the core you have rather than completely reshaping it.

[6_Rings]

keep the pick!

[The Force.]

I don't understand why the Bobcats would hand us their 2013 guaranteed lottery pick for a future potential lottery pick in 2016.

If anything, we would get Portland's protected pick.