why arent minority candidates being hired for HC jobs?

Pharmcat · Post #1 » by **Pharmcat** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:32 pm

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-o ... ching-jobs

8 spots, no minority candidate landed the job

how worrisome is this for the nfl?

Post #2 » by **Jake0890** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:59 pm

I hate when this is looked into. It's such a ridiculous issue.

They aren't hired because sometimes their not as good. It's not that these owners are racist plantation owners who have the confederate flag flying in their front yard, it's because they felt that a certain candidate was better than the others for the opening. That candidate happened to be white.

For example, Lovie Smith wasn't hired probably because of his defensive minded philosophy and being unable to put his team in the playoffs. It has nothing to do with him being black.

The Rooney Rule is ridiculous. We're not in the civil war era, we all need to stop seeing reasons in terms of minority vs. majority races and actually think. When a black coach comes along and has a gameplan that fits a teams needs, he shall be hired, simple as that.

LAKESHOW · Post #3 » by **LAKESHOW** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:01 pm

Thats easy to answer . . .
Because its "THE MAN" keepin a brotha down.
Can a brotha get a break?
These are considered White on Black crimes.

The difficult and expanded answer is . . .

You need a brotha with OC experience. With an increasingly more and more offensive oriented league, many OCs are pickin up HC jobs. In the hopes that their offensive expertise will get their team over the hump. Many folks out there are DCs. Not a good hire as we are finding out with the Jets. You need an offensive guy with innovation, thats gonna be a helpful hire. Not a white, black, asian, mexican or whatever . . . thats Defensive minded his approach to football. A defensive minded approach to football, handicaps your team, and you have bad offensive team concepts, and like the jets, you make bad offensive hires.

JustAwesome · Post #4 » by **JustAwesome** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:34 pm

I can see this being an issue if we've never had black head coaches before. I think the league has proven that they're willing to hire minorities in the top spots. There should definitely be more hirings like that, but I don't think we should do so only to appease the fans. Hire them if they're the right candidates.

Roger Murdock · Post #5 » by **Roger Murdock** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:58 am

Because most candidates aren't minorities, and because in this particular case the better candidates were white.

Who should have been hired? Lovie Smith had his chance and although a decent coach isn't some world beater. Besides him Horton was the only minority to really get mentioned with openings. A lot of the teams who fired their coaches wanted fresh offensive minds and there we no minority candidates who really fit the bill.

JustAwesome · Post #6 » by **JustAwesome** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:29 am

There are people complaining that Reid has a job and Smith doesn't. They even compared their records from last season. The difference, though, is that guys who are paid millions of dollars to run NFL franchises don't generally look at just one season.

NZB2323 · Post #7 » by **NZB2323** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:26 pm

I remember when the Packers had Ray Rhodes. The Packers were playing the Vikings and the Vikings were running the clock down, in field goal range, down 1 point. The announcers kept saying, "Why isn't Ray calling a time-out?" and my father and I were thinking the same thing. The Vikings let the clock get down to a few seconds and then kicked the game winning field goal as time expired. In the offseason Jessie Jackson was going to protest that firing and my dad was ready to go and protest with him.

My dad now owns a Packers jersey that says "Rhodes" on the back and we wear it whenever we lose a jersey bet to a Packer fan.

There are a lot of African-Americans who would make good head coaches. Tony Dungy and Herm Edwards are the first two that come to mind. I don't know if either one of them is interested in coaching though.

I'm just glad that the Packers didn't land Lovie Smith as DC. A lot of these teams looking for head coaches have had trouble on offense, and I'm not sure that Lovie fits the bill for that. I still say that firing Lovie because the offensive line couldn't block didn't make sense.

JustAwesome · Post #8 » by **JustAwesome** » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:45 am

Jackson got involved in that because he sensed an opportunity to make headlines, especially since the three people fired (head coach Rhdoes,offensive coordinator Lewis and defensive coordinator Thomas) by the Packers that season were all black.

Wolf, the man who hired three black coaches for the top spots on his staff, isn't a racist. Those firings happened because the team needed an overhaul.

BIGGIEsmalls 23 · Post #9 » by **BIGGIEsmalls 23** » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:42 pm

JustAwesome wrote:There are people complaining that Reid has a job and Smith doesn't. They even compared their records from last season. The difference, though, is that guys who are paid millions of dollars to run NFL franchises don't generally look at just one season.

Andy Reid last 9 years:

2004 13-3 NFC Champions

2005 6-10

2006 10-6

2007 8-8

2008 9-6-1

2009 11-5

2010 10-6

2011 8-8

2012 4-12

79 Wins

Lovie Smith last 9 years:

2004 5-11

2005 11-5

2006 13-3 NFC Champions

2007 7-9

2008 9-7

2009 7-9

2010 11-5

2011 8-8

2012 10-6

81 Wins

From looking at the last decade, an argument can be made that Lovie was the better candidate. Keep in mind that Andy Reid was given a "Dream Team" the last few years, as the Eagle signed/traded for several big name free agents. Lovie worked with scraps (especially on offense) that was given to him by former GM Jerry Angelo.

Post #10 » by **Jake0890** » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:35 pm

^^ But it's not like they passed on him because he was black...

Roger Murdock · Post #11 » by **Roger Murdock** » Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:55 pm

How many teams were in the market for a relatively conservative defensive minded head coach?

None, OK, lets move along then.

BIGGIEsmalls 23 · Post #12 » by **BIGGIEsmalls 23** » Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:19 am

Roger Murdock wrote:How many teams were in the market for a relatively conservative defensive minded head coach?

None, OK, lets move along then.

Well, explain how Lovie Smith (relatively conservative defensive minded head coach) had more victories with less talent over that span than Andy Reid (offensive genius) had with more talent.

It's easy to "move along" instead of admitting that something is wrong with that picture. Society has been "moving along" for decades ignoring what's sometimes obvious to the naked eye.

Hey, maybe Andy Reid is indeed the better candidate, but there is definitely an argument that can be made regarding Lovie Smith. Keep in mind, I'm a Bears fan that is not extremely sad to see him leave my team. I do, however, believe that his phone should have been ringing the same, if not more, than Andy Reid's was.

Post #13 » by **gswhoops** » Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:02 pm

I'm surprised that Lovie didn't get a HC offer. But I'm also frankly surprised that Wisenhunt didn't either. I thought Smith and Buffalo were a match made in heaven - the Bills had a talented but underperforming defense and the right personnel to run his system. Hire a good OC (Turner? Wisenhunt?) and draft a QB and a receiver and you'd be set to surprise a lot of people IMO.

I think a lot of the time teams would rather give an unknown guy a shot than go for a re-tread. The increasing emphasis on offense couldn't have helped Smith either, or the trend of defenses migrating towards the 3-4 and hybrid fronts when Smith is a Tampa 2 guy.

Post #14 » by **Icness** » Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:18 pm

I can tell you for a fact that Lovie's inability to handle the offensive side of the ball is the reason why he has no job.

Higga · Post #15 » by **Higga** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:59 pm

How many top flight minority candidates are there? For every Tony Dungy you get a Mike Singletary. For every Mike Tomlin there's a Raheem Morris.

No real hotshot minority candidates are coming to mind right now. Maybe Stanford's David Shaw?

Post #16 » by **Icness** » Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:56 pm

Kevin Sumlin will get some buzz next offseason, esp. if Johnny Football wins another Heisman. Ray Horton will get interviews too.

BIGGIEsmalls 23 · Post #17 » by **BIGGIEsmalls 23** » Fri Feb 1, 2013 3:01 pm

Ex-coaches: Rooney Rule is broken

Three black former NFL coaches say the league needs to rethink its Rooney Rule for promoting minority hiring after 15 top vacancies -- eight head coaching jobs and seven general manager positions -- were all filled by white candidates since the regular season ended a month ago.

"I know the concept is good and something we need to do," said Tony Dungy, who was with the Indianapolis Colts during the 2006 season when he became the first black coach to win a Super Bowl. "Obviously, it's not working the way it should."

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Herm Edwards, former coach of the New York Jets and Kansas City Chiefs and now an ESPN analyst, has called for not only revising the rule but perhaps even changing its name.

"When you use the Rooney Rule and not correctly, you put a little bit of a bad mark on Mr. Rooney's name, and that is not good," Edwards said Wednesday. "If it keeps going this way, we might need to take his name off the rule. It is not being used in the right manner that Mr. Rooney meant it to be."

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Caldwell is no stranger to the Super Bowl, having led the Colts there three years ago after replacing the retired Dungy. It was only after Peyton Manning was sidelined for the 2011 season that Caldwell was fired.

"It has been a great rule and it has worked in the past," he said. "Just like anything else, you have to, after a certain period of time, revisit it and take a look and see if it needs a little tweaking. I think it does in this particular case."

Caldwell added: "That's one of the reasons that the Rooney Rule was put in place, because you're trying to avoid those situations, if possible. We're at that stage where guys like Lovie Smith, who didn't get an opportunity, who had won and been very successful previously ... obviously, there's some concern there, and that's why I think the rule is going to be revisited."

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Edwards said he wonders whether minority candidates get interviewed only to satisfy the rule, even though they have no chance of getting the job. He and Dungy noted that the last black head coach hiring -- other than coaches promoted from within, such as Leslie Frazier, Raheem Morris, Mike Singletary, Hue Jackson and Crennel -- was Mike Tomlin by Pittsburgh in 2007.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/89030 ... ule-broken

Post #18 » by **Jake0890** » Fri Feb 1, 2013 8:28 pm

I really think the Rooney Rule is overall stupid. The owners and GMs shouldn't be pushed to hire a black head coach. If there is a high caliber black head coach that fits with a team, he'll be hired. The world needs to stop viewing everything (sports specifically) in black and white.

BIGGIEsmalls 23 · Post #19 » by **BIGGIEsmalls 23** » Fri Feb 1, 2013 9:00 pm

Jake0890 wrote:I really think the Rooney Rule is overall stupid. The owners and GMs shouldn't be pushed to hire a black head coach. If there is a high caliber black head coach that fits with a team, he'll be hired. The world needs to stop viewing everything (sports specifically) in black and white.

Jake, the Rooney Rule was put into place because the NFL recognized that there was a problem. You can not tell me that for all the past minority players that have played in the NFL, only a handful were smart enough to be Head coaches and/or GMs.

For years the NFL was stuck with what was termed back then "the good ole boys club", where the same Head coaches were being fired from one team for being lousy & re-hired by another team the next season. This went on for a very long time. I'm (unfortunately) old enough to remember.

If this was MLB, then I could understand because most of their present/past players are white or Hispanic. Blacks have dominated both the NFL & NBA, yet the lack of Head coaches & GMs is alarming. I'm not even gonna get into the lack of minority ownership when it comes to the NFL & NBA.

I'm not attempting to turn this into a racial discussion, but at the same time, I'm not gonna bury my head in the sand like it's not an obvious issue.

Post #20 » by **Jake0890** » Sat Feb 2, 2013 12:54 am

BIGGIEsmalls 23 wrote:
Jake0890 wrote:I really think the Rooney Rule is overall stupid. The owners and GMs shouldn't be pushed to hire a black head coach. If there is a high caliber black head coach that fits with a team, he'll be hired. The world needs to stop viewing everything (sports specifically) in black and white.

Jake, the Rooney Rule was put into place because the NFL recognized that there was a problem. You can not tell me that for all the past minority players that have played in the NFL, only a handful were smart enough to be Head coaches and/or GMs.

For years the NFL was stuck with what was termed back then "the good ole boys club", where the same Head coaches were being fired from one team for being lousy & re-hired by another team the next season. This went on for a very long time. I'm (unfortunately) old enough to remember.

If this was MLB, then I could understand because most of their present/past players are white or Hispanic. Blacks have dominated both the NFL & NBA, yet the lack of Head coaches & GMs is alarming. I'm not even gonna get into the lack of minority ownership when it comes to the NFL & NBA.

I'm not attempting to turn this into a racial discussion, but at the same time, I'm not gonna bury my head in the sand like it's not an obvious issue.

But just because you play in the NFL doesn't mean you can coach it.

I refuse to believe that the GMs and owners of the NFL have lowered themselves to the scumbag level of denying deserving people opportunities because of their race. If they were the best candidate, they would be hired.

If I was going to hire a head coach, there's no way in **** I hire Lovie Smith. He was okay in Chicago, but he's not a coach you want in this league when the offenses become more and more high powered every year.