OMFKG! The Michael Kidd-Gilchrist Thread

[Liver_Pooty]

more random thoughts on his jumper...

i dont much college bball these days and the few times i watched kentucky last year MKG was mainly scoring in transition, at the rim, dunks or ft line (sound familiar). i didnt really see him take any jumpers. as we got closer to the draft i kept reading about his lack of a jumper and awful form, but i didnt really think much of it. i hear that same criticism about at least 5 lottery talents a year. but i was curious, so i went and watched some videos of him working out. there i saw the funky form, but he was nailing them in practice. i was thinking it wasnt so bad, just weird. so we draft him, and first game in summer league he hits a three and another jumper and i was thinking - see, with practice he'll be fine.

fast forward to january... i really dont mean to pick on him, because i really love everything about his game other than his jumper, but holy crap, he might actually be the worst shooter i have ever seen from a small forward. shooting on the way down, hitch in the shoot, completely flat, no confidence, sideways rotation, you name the problem and he's got it.

i really must admit that his jumper is much worse than i expected

could current MKG have the worst jumper of any small forward or guard to play regular minutes over the past few years? or is that just over-the-top on my part?

was rondo in his worst shooting days this bad?
tony allen?
stacy augmon?
muggsy bogues?

the numbers:
3-9 feet: 29.8% on 57 attempts
10-15 feet: 12.5% on 16 attempts
16-23 feet: 27.6% on 76 attempts
24+: 28.6% on 7 attempts
on all jump shoots: 25.8% on 151 attempts

i am going searching for players with 150+ jumpers on less than 25%

His jumpers 2 off seasons full of 8 hour 1000 shot days to being decent, but I look forward to the other facets of his game developing in the mean time.

[fatlever]

list of players this year with more than 80 jumpers (3 feet or greater) with less than 26% on those shots, who play pg, sg or sf

2012-13
MKG: 151 @ 25.8%
draymond green: 98 @ 25.5%
roddy beaubois: 84 @ 25%

lets go back a few years (will raise minimum to 100 for full season)
2011-12
earl watson: 120 @ 25.8%
jeremy pargo: 111 @ 23.4%
shawne williams: 122 @ 23%

2010-11
ronnie price: 144 @ 25.7%

2009-10
deshawn stevenson: 143 @ 24.5%

2008-09
tony allen: 109 @ 24.8%
javaris crittenton: 124 @ 22.6%

2007-08
nobody

2006-07
demarr johnson: 114 @ 21.9%

2005-06
rueben patterson: 177 @ 23.2%

2004-05
nobody

2003-04
jr bremer: 127 @ 26%
milt palacio: 164 @ 25.6%
rueben patterson: 119 @ 22.7%

summary: MKG is having a historically bad shooting year so far. only two guards/small forwards in the past 10 years have taken more jumpers with a worse percentage than MKG (and MKG is only half way through the season). including MKG, only 15 guards/small fowards in the past 10 years have taken 100+ jumpers on 26% or less. only one player did it more than once, rueben patterson, who is arguably a power forward. almost everyone on this list was a journyman. tony allen is probably the only player on the list who would be considered a decent starter and that is only because he is the best defender at his position. the inefficiency MKG is showing this year on his jumper is usually only seen by centers who cant shoot, such as dwight howard, javale mcgee, brendan hawyood etc... (guys who popped up on the list several times).

we can sit here and talk about how he is going to fix that jumper, but i think we all need to be realistic about how bad it is to begin with. his jumper is historically bad for a wing who gets minutes and regular shots. he will no doubt improve on his shot, because he is young and a hard worker, but even a drastic improvement could still leave him with a bad jumper. marginal improvement will still probably leave him as the worst shooter at his position for many years to come.

sorry for the debbie downer post, but this numbers are a bit shocking. i was honestly expecting to see a few more big names who had bad shooting seasons as rookies on this list.

[James Gatz]

I'm a little surprised Tyreke Evans didn't make the list.

Nice research fats.

[fatlever]

i bumped the limit to 30% for last season just to see who was in the 26-30% range. this list is a tad better

2012-13
kevin love @ 26.2
tony allen @ 27.3
josh smith @ 27.7
trevor ariza @ 27.7
al aminu @ 28.3
tyreke evans @ 28.5
dj augustin @ 28.6
rodney stuckey @ 29.5
austin rivers @ 30.0

2011-12
tyreke evans @ 26.4
corey brewer @ 29,1
ron artest @ 29.3
cj miles @ 29.6
corey maggette @ 29.8

2010-11
quentin richardson @ 27.0
dominic mcguire @ 27.7
trevor ariza @ 28.4
john wall @ 29.9
tony allen @ 29.9
tyreke evans @ 30.0

so if MKG can raise his jumper % about 3-5 points he can shoot like tyreke evans.

[fatlever]

I'm a little surprised Tyreke Evans didn't make the list.

Nice research fats.

see update, tyreke is probably best comparison for what we might expect from MKG over the next couple of seasons in terms of shooting.

[Diop]

where do you get these stat's from?

The player who I always think of when talking about improving their jumper is Gary Payton.

Can we see how his jumper compared in his rookie year?

[BigSlam]

could current MKG have the worst jumper of any small forward or guard to play regular minutes over the past few years? or is that just over-the-top on my part?

Not sure. Why don't you add that question to your "Do the Bobcats have the worst front court in the history of mankind" on the general board so opposing fans can continue to sh*t on us and we can find out!!

[James Gatz]

I'm a little surprised Tyreke Evans didn't make the list.

Nice research fats.

see update, tyreke is probably best comparison for what we might expect from MKG over the next couple of seasons in terms of shooting.

Yeah, but on the bright side MKG doesn't need the ball in his hands in order to be effective.

[Bassman]

could current MKG have the worst jumper of any small forward or guard to play regular minutes over the past few years? or is that just over-the-top on my part?

Not sure. Why don't you add that question to your "Do the Bobcats have the worst front court in the history of mankind" on the general board so opposing fans can continue to sh*t on us and we can find out!!

Well, Fats was reasonable in his analysis, comparing hyphen to other players who have dreadful shooting. The key to my concern is Fats earlier description of his shooting mechanics, which are so broken in multiple ways. Shooting is not easy, especially in the NBA. To think he will "fix his shot" is beyond optimism.

I just see MKG for who appears to be; a young dedicated athlete who will be a nice contributor on any team, but not a star who carries a team. I like him, but I'm willing to swap him for a quality starter if it makes sense.

[countryboi]

MKG is fine I am not worried about him at all but his shoot needs to be torn down and start over. He does not have a shot that can be fixed with repetition.

[Probst]

Noah has god awful technique as well but he has managed to make it work

Hope MKG can make the same strides

[fatlever]

where do you get these stat's from?

The player who I always think of when talking about improving their jumper is Gary Payton.

Can we see how his jumper compared in his rookie year?

got the stats from bball-ref. under each player you can view their shooting splits. also under the play index section you can do a shot finder where you can put in criteria for each season, searchable by types of shots, distance, quarter, time left on shot clock etc...

[HornetJail]

Noah has god awful technique as well but he has managed to make it work

Hope MKG can make the same strides

Noah's shot is terrible. I'd trust MKG with a jumper before Noah.

If Shawn Marion could make his jumper work, I think MKG can figure something out.

[Eoghan]

MKG is fine I am not worried about him at all but his shoot needs to be torn down and start over. He does not have a shot that can be fixed with repetition.

Kind of disagree. I'm pretty pessimistic about MKG being a good shooter but I think he can be an average one. What's going to be a bitch to fix is the timing, the shooting on the way down part. It can be fixed with reps but his accuracy is going to get worse before it gets better, he just has to get used to it and not revert to bad habits. The hitch is fugly but mostly aesthetically bad. As long as you give the ball a chance to go in (arc, backspin), you can have all the hitches you want. Where the unnecessary movement hurts is slowing your release and giving your opponent more opportunity to block you. But unorthodox releases can throw off defenders also so in MKG's case with his size and athleticism, I hope he falls in the latter.

In a glass half full approach, MKG doesn't really need to improve his shot that much to drastically make him a bigger threat. He just needs to shoot well enough that defenders don't dare him to shoot.

[Leolovinliberal]

one thing to note is that shooting the ball well is muscle memory(even if you learn a nice looking form) it'll be a long long time before you shoot well. As bad as it looks, in terms of the ball actually going in, it would be a lot worse if he tried something different.

My guess as to why it got to this point: He's 19 and had one year in college where his primary focus was to be showcased for the NBA not to work on his jumper and look like crap doing it, before that he was in high school where given his athleticism he could have tried to head the ball into the net every time and still dominated. It's a case of he learned it wrong to begin with but was always gifted enough to make it up physically.

He shoots his jumper on the way down; think about that for a second. That is the definition of broken, it can't get much worse than that. Many players learn how to shoot the ball after they enter the NBA; NKG is too good to not be a part of that list.

[fatlever]

Noah has god awful technique as well but he has managed to make it work

Hope MKG can make the same strides

Noah's shot is terrible. I'd trust MKG with a jumper before Noah.

If Shawn Marion could make his jumper work, I think MKG can figure something out.

noah - 32.8% on jumpers this year, 37.2% last year.

[fatlever]

marion's 2nd season he shot 37.7% on jumpers. shooting stats on bball-ref only go back to 99 so i dont have info on marion's rookie year.

[JMAC3]

We all know that MKG isnt going to be winning any three point contests soon, but that doesn't mean his shot wont improve. He certainly doesn't have the best looking jump shot around by any means and I think they will look to adjust to some point, but I do not think they will change his shot completely.

The easiest way to fix his shot is going to be have him learning a more set shot rather then a jump shot. This should help his timing allowing him to shoot the ball on his way up. Naturally this should take over once he starts shooting a more traditional jump shot again.

The hitch is another problem, not because it makes his shot inaccurate or ugly, but because it slows down his release. He just needs to work on a bit quicker release and shooting with a hand in his face, because his shot is a bit easier to contest.

[Elden Payton]

As we have seen in shootaround pregame MKG has a shot he uses for shootaround/practice and a shot he uses in the game.

The reason for this, is that the shot he uses pregame/practice etc is his jumpshot that he is using for repetition and muscle memory for the FUTURE.

The shot he uses in game is the shot he has been using his whole life and cannot be switched off like a light.

As MKG's career progresses he will naturally, gradually start using his new mechanics and form on his j in game without instruction as he gains confidence in his shot and the time spent under expert tutelege becomes instinct.

No conspiracy theory, lol.

Also of note doing it this way means that MKG doesn't ONLY need to work on his j in the off/pre season.

[JMAC3]

As far as people sagging off him this season, I think that alone is hurting his confidence. If somebody leaves you wide open on purpose you tend to put more pressure on yourself to hit the shot. Then you miss and your confidence takes a big hit.

I like to consider myself an elite jump shooter, I have had to be my whole life as a 5'9'' white boy with average athleticism. One of the most frustrating things for me when I play ball is when people leave me open not knowing I should hit those shots and then I miss them. So they continue to leave me open, and it puts me in a weird position because I feel like I am going to make my next shot and I am open, so I have a hard time turning that shot down even when I am missing because I feel like every shot I take is going in. I guess what I am trying to say is that I shoot the best when my defender knows what I am want to do and I make myself beat him at my game. Its just not fun to shoot wide open shots all day. Anyways sometimes I have to hit a few open shots before my defender realizes that I can shoot and then the game gets fun. That is what MKG is going to have to do, is just start knocking down the wide open ones and it will open up so much more for him.

If Kemba can improve his shooting that drastically over an offseason. I see MKG making huge strides with his work ethic and Kemba in the gym with him pushing him. I would give him at least two offseasons before we decide he is destined to be a bad shooter. I really feel like this kid is destined to be a great player and he is the youngest player in the league this year, so lets all let him develop.