Around the NBA part 3

[ibraheim718]

Damn Bogut 6-8 12pts 8 reb 2asst 1stl and 4blocks... the west might be in a little trouble if he can stay healthy and remember when everyone was bashing Mark Jackson's coaching abilities? Not so much anymore...

[msg4k90]

Kevin McHale specifically credited Lin's help D but yet people still think Lin is a below average defender. Makes little sense.

because he can't shut down westbrook or other PG's in the west. westbrook averages 20+ points per game. I know goran dragic and raymond felton or any other PG not named jeremy lin could do a better job.

[Quick Kick]

I dont know why but I would knock that chicks walls down EASY and charge it to the game.

By the time a guy hits 24 in the NBA you know whether he is star/superstar matertial or not. Lin may get marginally better but thats about it.

Nonsense Lowry has gotten better every single year of his career. At what age did Steve Nash become STEVE NASH. Players get better all the time.

see, there we go. Implying Lin will become a 20/10 player just because Nash did it. You guys always show your faces whenever Lin has a mediocre game and go off the rails with the kid. You think he's gonna shoot 100% from the floor in every game? He scored 12 points total and had 2 assists after halftime. Yawn. Next game he'll shoot 2-9 with 4 assists and you guys will crawl back into your holes until he has his one good game next month.

[ibraheim718]

Watching the Warriors game and man every single starter are what I would call "smart" players.. and Lee and Bogut complement each other beautifully.

[chales_zed]

If Bogut and Curry stay healthy in the play-offs I think they're going to pull a first round surpriser on an unfortunate team.

Houston is starting to play well again because McHale is starting to be a bit more assertive, sat Harden out when he was scrubbing it up for once a couple of games back and let Lin go to work instead of letting him lay brick after brick. The team is defending a lot better, Patterson is playing fantastic ball though the stats don't show it his defense has improved a lot and Lin is finally getting some PNRs and screens. At the start of the season he was being played like Deron Williams on the Nets, exclusively off-ball while Delfino and Parsons were running the offense. It's day and night again when Lin is on and off the court.

[chales_zed]

Watching the Warriors game and man every single starter are what I would call "smart" players.. and Lee and Bogut complement each other beautifully.

Yeah they're a beast to be reckoned with, Bogut just adds another dimension to their team. Their offense is beautiful to watch, great ball movement, and David Lee is such a fantastic PF. He sets great screens and knows how to roll to the basket or step back for the pop.

The Lynch-pin is Curry though, he's an elite 'chucker', once he gets a glimpse of daylight he just shoots it and because he's so good he wreaks havoc on defenses trying to close out on him. Playing as the off-guard he can draw so much defensive attention for Jarret and Lee to run the PNR/ PNP and now with the addition of Bogut in the low-post Lee can drop it off to him for the jam if his man rotates to Lee.

[knicksnyk]

I dont know why but I would knock that chicks walls down EASY and charge it to the game.

By the time a guy hits 24 in the NBA you know whether he is star/superstar matertial or not. Lin may get marginally better but thats about it.

Nonsense Lowry has gotten better every single year of his career. At what age did Steve Nash become STEVE NASH. Players get better all the time.

see, there we go. Implying Lin will become a 20/10 player just because Nash did it. You guys always show your faces whenever Lin has a mediocre game and go off the rails with the kid. You think he's gonna shoot 100% from the floor in every game? He scored 12 points total and had 2 assists after halftime. Yawn. Next game he'll shoot 2-9 with 4 assists and you guys will crawl back into your holes until he has his one good game next month.

I never said this but I am not even surprised that that is how you inferred my statement. Keep on keeping though.

oh & by the way Nash never averaged 20 & 10 at any point in his career. If you are going to be deliberately obtuse at least do it properly

[Capn'O]

Dang, sucks for you. Lin was balling tonight, but he owned the jazz too hard. He only got to play like 24 minutes. Couldn't pad his stats.

We... I mean Capn'o got a little up tick in fg% and Assists though.

The 5-5 is good. His two 3-12 games since the (L)inception of The Bet were killin' me. Dude usually stops shooting when he's way off like that but teams were giving him his (crappy) open shot.

[Capn'O]

Watching the Warriors game and man every single starter are what I would call "smart" players.. and Lee and Bogut complement each other beautifully.

Yeah they're a beast to be reckoned with, Bogut just adds another dimension to their team. Their offense is beautiful to watch, great ball movement, and David Lee is such a fantastic PF. He sets great screens and knows how to roll to the basket or step back for the pop.

The Lynch-pin is Curry though, he's an elite 'chucker', once he gets a glimpse of daylight he just shoots it and because he's so good he wreaks havoc on defenses trying to close out on him. Playing as the off-guard he can draw so much defensive attention for Jarret and Lee to run the PNR/ PNP and now with the addition of Bogut in the low-post Lee can drop it off to him for the jam if his man rotates to Lee.

That dubs team is a lot of fun. I thought they were going to break out last season and make the playoffs but they held off a year and broke out harder. Curry has the quickest shot since Reggie, no?

[bigbreakfast]

Kevin McHale specifically credited Lin's help D but yet people still think Lin is a below average defender. Makes little sense.

solid man to man defender. gets lost on PnR and loses his player sometimes. he seems the most willing help defender, not sure if this is by design but he kinda gets out of position sometimes. i think he really needs to improve on PnR defense since he'll see alot of that.

[rockmanslim]

Lin finally puts together two decent games in a row and the Lin defense force comes out of the woodwork.

Tell me though, what's Lin's ratio of bad games to good games this season? A lot higher than his assist/to ratio, I'm pretty sure.

[rockmanslim]

In NBA history, have there been starting point guards whose weaknesses were their handle, ball security, and jumpshooting? If so, who?

It just sounds...weird, like a QB with no arm, or a WR with bad hands, or a RB with no vision.

Magic Johnson?

Damn that was cold.

Jason Kidd... Mark Jackson.

Ball handling was a weakness for Magic, Kidd, and Jackson? News to me.

[ibraheim718]

Ball handling was a weakness for Magic, Kidd, and Jackson? News to me.

Kidd couldn't shoot a lick... he got better... Mark Was a horrid shooter from the outside he managed to get a little better. Guys get better.. deal with it.. what do you think they don't want to improve upon their games?

What kind of a slight is it to say players generally don't improve.

Jeff Garcia had a pea shooter for an arm.. he made it work by working on his accuracy. Adrian Peterson had fumbling issues... he worked on resolving them.

Every athlete worth their weight in gold improves over the course of their careers.

Lin has improved his handle... he's finishing with his left hand... he's in the process of figuring out how to play alongside a player he's never played alongside of. He's going to get better... so is John Wall.. Greivis Vasquez got better.. Anthony Davis is going to get better so is MKG... what's the absurdity in saying that?

[ibraheim718]

Kevin McHale specifically credited Lin's help D but yet people still think Lin is a below average defender. Makes little sense.

solid man to man defender. gets lost on PnR and loses his player sometimes. he seems the most willing help defender, not sure if this is by design but he kinda gets out of position sometimes. i think he really needs to improve on PnR defense since he'll see alot of that.

Accurate analysis... bigger guards often have a problem getting through screens when they chase smaller ones.. but I think they've been working with him on getting small when teams set screens on him... that's what I'm noticing and it's probably coming from coaching. For any of the guys on here who play organized basketball and have that same problem what you want to do is go from your defensive stance when sliding and stand up to get through the screen... you want to make yourself as thin as possible and then you should have no problem getting through screens while staying in front of your man... assuming of course your teammate is letting you know from what side the screen is being set.

[rockmanslim]

Ball handling was a weakness for Magic, Kidd, and Jackson? News to me.

Kidd couldn't shoot a lick... he got better... Mark Was a horrid shooter from the outside he managed to get a little better. Guys get better.. deal with it.. what do you think they don't want to improve upon their games?

What kind of a slight is it to say players generally don't improve.

Jeff Garcia had a pea shooter for an arm.. he made it work by working on his accuracy. Adrian Peterson had fumbling issues... he worked on resolving them.

Every athlete worth their weight in gold improves over the course of their careers.

Lin has improved his handle... he's finishing with his left hand... he's in the process of figuring out how to play alongside a player he's never played alongside of. He's going to get better... so is John Wall.. Greivis Vasquez got better.. Anthony Davis is going to get better so is MKG... what's the absurdity in saying that?

I understand all that. But what starting NBA point guards have had weak handles AND a weak jumpshot AND shaky ball security, all three attributes in the same player? let's even broaden it a bit, what starting NBA point guards have had weak handles AND a weak jumpshot (i.e. disregarding ball security)?

btw that shot i took in that previous post at the lin defense force, i don't include you in that group, fwiw, so please don't take any offense to that. the LDF know who they are (join date of 2012 is usually a good indication).

[bigbreakfast]

I understand all that. But what starting NBA point guards have had weak handles AND a weak jumpshot AND shaky ball security, all three attributes in the same player? let's even broaden it a bit, what starting NBA point guards have had weak handles AND a weak jumpshot (i.e. disregarding ball security)?

btw that shot i took in that previous post at the lin defense force, i don't include you in that group, fwiw, so please don't take any offense to that. the LDF know who they are (join date of 2012 is usually a good indication).

lin has shaky handles and a shaky jumpshot. he is weak in creating off a live dribble, and is weak going and finishing to the left. they figured him out about a few weeks into linsanity and every defense in the league knows that. yet he's still managing to get to the rim going right, so I think some credit has to be given there (good first step out of the triple threat, good recognition of defense, etc). I also noticed an improvement in his handling of hard traps off the PnR before he got injured last year and that improvement has continued into this year, so he definitely has made improvements. I'm hoping with a healthy off season he'll improve ball handling and shooting.

[fdr2012]

You mean where you accused me of calling him a HOF guard and I said 14/6.5/(and I'll add 44% for **** and giggles) won't get you into the HOF but it will win the bet?

That's not a prediction and it's most certainly not what I bet on. It was an off the cuff one liner in response to your off the cuff one liner and based on his season averages from the previous season.

And remember, stats don't lie

If only you could have waited 1 minute, you wouldn't have looked stupid for denying something you wrote.

Ah, ye olde per-36 argument. "Why don't they play Scrub player X 36 minutes a game? His per-36 numbers are STUMAZING!" Well, you then put that player in for 36 minutes for a few games and figure out why. They can't do it at that level for the full game for a sustained period of time.

From an understanding of the game, skills development, the mental game, and simply getting adjusted to the long haul of an NBA season - a lot happens within the first three years. It's why a lot of rooks don't get that PT.

To continue with Dragic - if you look at his points and assists per 36 over his first few years... ok... his scoring hover at about the same rate. His assists take a nice bump up recently. But look at his turnover rate and TOs/36. These have come down a fair amount even has his actual time on the court increases. Likewise, you see all inclusive stats like PER rising as he gains more experience. Overall, he's just a better PG.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/dragigo01.html

TBH, I expressed this exact concern about Houston paying Lin as much as they did. Didn't like the fit there. Pre-Harden, he had way more of a role than he could handle. I still think he does but will grow into that role more as the season progresses. You think he will maintain or regress.

Now we're purely wasting time. Like I said, for every one player that gets better between 24 and the end of his career, there are 10 who stay the same and get worse. Players get injured, wear down and simply lose their hunger. Just the way it is. Once again, you're playing against the odds. I'm willing to bet Lin is not one of those rare players who will get better. In fact I'm willing to bet he will never post numbers even close to what he did with the Knicks.

[fdr2012]

two improvements right off the top of my head. His defense is significantly better. He is a much improved transition player. Oh here is another one his passing is a lot better in terms of variety & timing. So ye your smoking something if you think he has shown ZERO improvement.

Those improvements exist only in your mind. To say he's a better passer, yet not have assists numbers show it is a stretch. His defense is not better - he still cannot stay in front of his man and he can't get over screens.

So yeah, he's showing ZERO improvement, in fact, he's clearly regressed since last season and the numbers show that.

[dantian]

The fact with Lin and Rockets is, their team plays much better letting the "shaky" Lin handle the ball and direct the offense, i.e. the main facilitator. Harden and the whole team's efficiency improved a lot, despite Lin's "unimpressive" personal stats filling his role. That tells you the story here: Lin is a natural PG with the sense for strategically relevant spacing on the court. This is a rare talent most PG newbies don't have. If he keeps it while improving his handling, shooting and passing steadily, he will be more than fine as a starting caliber NBA PG.

[chales_zed]

That dubs team is a lot of fun. I thought they were going to break out last season and make the playoffs but they held off a year and broke out harder. Curry has the quickest shot since Reggie, no?

They're one of the most enjoyable teams to watch in the NBA imo. It's weird that I haven't really followed any Spurs games this season because they've got the most fluid offense ever, just a beautiful team, although sometimes I feel like they overpass. But yeah the GSW are fun to watch, Curry is going to go down as one of the greatest shooters ever.

It's kind of funny watching the difference between Western Conference teams and Eastern Conference teams. GSW, Spurs, Clippers and to an extent the Thunder all have fast-paced team oriented offenses and in the East it's all about the half-court and grind, grind, grind.