Knicks-Related Trade "THOUGHTS" Thread

[GONYK]

Brandon Jennings. Maybe in the off-season. Can't see Bucks dealing him now. Problem with that, from the Knicks' perspective, is that then you have to match his new, $10M+ contract, not his current deal ... where we can offer Shumpert and Felton.

The other problem with that is that he sucks

[K_ick_God]

Brandon Jennings. Maybe in the off-season. Can't see Bucks dealing him now. Problem with that, from the Knicks' perspective, is that then you have to match his new, $10M+ contract, not his current deal ... where we can offer Shumpert and Felton.

The other problem with that is that he sucks

If he sucks, what is Felton?

Here's Brandon's January:

Jan 29: 30 and 6
Jan 26: 20 and 7
Jan 25: 14 and 12
Jan 22: 25 and 7
Jan 19: 30 and 8
Jan 17: 16 and 4
Jan 15: 12 and 1
Jan 13: 19 and 10
Jan 11: 15 and 2
Jan 09: 35 and 6
Jan 08: 29 and 9
Jan 05: 12 and 5
Jan 04: 16 and 7
Jan 02: 31 and 5

Hmm doesn't seem like a PG who sucks.

[seren]

The other problem with that is that he sucks

If he sucks, what is Felton?

Here's Brandon's January:

Jan 29: 30 and 6
Jan 26: 20 and 7
Jan 25: 14 and 12
Jan 22: 25 and 7
Jan 19: 30 and 8
Jan 17: 16 and 4
Jan 15: 12 and 1
Jan 13: 19 and 10
Jan 11: 15 and 2
Jan 09: 35 and 6
Jan 08: 29 and 9
Jan 05: 12 and 5
Jan 04: 16 and 7
Jan 02: 31 and 5

Hmm doesn't seem like a PG who sucks.

Jennings >>> Felton. Not even a question there.

My issue is whether he is the answer. The contract would be expensive and we would lose Shump.

[Thugger HBC]

I'm always wary of trying to acquire guys headed to a contract year, with that said, I dont think Jennings with worth a package of giving up Felton AND Shumpert.

[seren]

I feel like people don't realize how terrible Bargnani and Calderon are

I personally don't. He seems to have a pretty good assist/turnover ratio and he shoots the three well. Of course, I wouldn't give up a Shump for him, but why not get him if he would just cost spare parts?

[GONYK]

Brandon Jennings. Maybe in the off-season. Can't see Bucks dealing him now. Problem with that, from the Knicks' perspective, is that then you have to match his new, $10M+ contract, not his current deal ... where we can offer Shumpert and Felton.

The other problem with that is that he sucks

If he sucks, what is Felton?

Here's Brandon's January:

Jan 29- 30 and 6
Jan 26- 20 and 7
Jan 25- 14 and 12
Jan 22- 25 and 7
Jan 19- 30 and 8
Jan 17- 16 and 4
Jan 15- 12 and 1
Jan 13- 19 and 10
Jan 11- 15 and 2
Jan 09- 35 and 6
Jan 08- 29 and 9
Jan 05- 12 and 5
Jan 04- 16 and 7
Jan 02- 31 and 5

Hmm doesn't seem like a PG who sucks.

Why don't you post Monta Ellis' stats next and tell me that he's an SG who doesn't suck?

He's a terrible shooter with a low assist rate which is even worse when you look at his usage rate. Still a weak finisher and still has too much of a scorer's mentality. He's another player who is also in love with his step back 3's. You love JR that much that you want a PG that plays the same way?

Felton is, hands down, a much better point guard in terms of running an offense and controlling the tempo. It's even better that he does it for much cheaper.

And you want to trade Felton AND Shumpert for Brandon Jennings? Really?

[GONYK]

I feel like people don't realize how terrible Bargnani and Calderon are

I personally don't. He seems to have a pretty good assist/turnover ratio and he shoots the three well. Of course, I wouldn't give up a Shump for him, but why not get him if he would just cost spare parts?

I'd get him for spare parts. Now the question is what do you consider spare parts?

If it is anything that puts us in the position of having to start Calderon, then the answer is no.

[K_ick_God]

He's a terrible shooter with a low assist rate which is even worse when you look at his usage rate. Still a weak finisher and still has too much of a scorer's mentality. He's another player who is also in love with his step back 3's. You love JR that much that you want a PG that plays the same way?

Felton is, hands down, a much better point guard in terms of running an offense and controlling the tempo. It's even better that he does it for much cheaper.

And you want to trade Felton AND Shumpert for Brandon Jennings? Really?

He's a "terrible shooter" who is shooting 38% from downtown. Felton is a genuinely terrible shooter who still has a **decent** 3FG% because he started off so hot. He's dropping like a rock and his overall % is below 40%. He chucks.

Felton is not better than BJ by any stretch of the imagination. BJ just averaged 22.4 and 6.2 in January and unlike Felton, he's very young and getting better still. With Melo and Amar'e and Tyson, his assists would go up significantly.

He's got to take on scoring because Ellis is having a very bad season. But you need a PG who looks to score aggressively too. Even Rondo will do that. Felton, way too aggressive as a scorer because he can't make them. Granted BJ is not the best PG in the league or that efficient, but he's much, much better than Felton in just about every way.

And by the way, Felton's defense is awful.

[seren]

I feel like people don't realize how terrible Bargnani and Calderon are

I personally don't. He seems to have a pretty good assist/turnover ratio and he shoots the three well. Of course, I wouldn't give up a Shump for him, but why not get him if he would just cost spare parts?

I'd get him for spare parts. Now the question is what do you consider spare parts?

If it is anything that puts us in the position of having to start Calderon, then the answer is no.

Novak/JR/KT/White works under checker.

[GONYK]

Novak/JR/KT/White works under checker.

Eh, I'd consider it, but I'm passing if JR is in there.

[seren]

Novak/JR/KT/White works under checker.

Eh, I'd consider it, but I'm passing if JR is in there.

I have been trying to unload JR. I am not against JR the player per se. I just don't like the JR, adopted son of Mike Woodson. Heavy doses of JR gives me heartburn.

[GONYK]

He's a terrible shooter with a low assist rate which is even worse when you look at his usage rate. Still a weak finisher and still has too much of a scorer's mentality. He's another player who is also in love with his step back 3's. You love JR that much that you want a PG that plays the same way?

Felton is, hands down, a much better point guard in terms of running an offense and controlling the tempo. It's even better that he does it for much cheaper.

And you want to trade Felton AND Shumpert for Brandon Jennings? Really?

He's a "terrible shooter" who is shooting 38% from downtown. Felton is a genuinely terrible shooter who still has a **decent** 3FG% because he started off so hot. He's dropping like a rock and his overall % is below 40%. He chucks.

Felton is not better than BJ by any stretch of the imagination. BJ just averaged 22.4 and 6.2 in January and unlike Felton, he's very young and getting better still. With Melo and Amar'e and Tyson, his assists would go up significantly.

He's got to take on scoring because Ellis is having a very bad season. But you need a PG who looks to score aggressively too. Even Rondo will do that. Felton, way too aggressive as a scorer because he can't make them. Granted BJ is not the best PG in the league or that efficient, but he's much, much better than Felton in just about every way.

And by the way, Felton's defense is awful.

Why would Jennings assists go up? He's not a passer. He's a scorer through and through. Always has been.

Felton is not a better player than Jennings, at all. But he is a better PG and a much better fit for the current construction of the team IMO.

Even without the question of who is better between the two, Jennings is not worth Felton and Shump.

[seren]

He's a terrible shooter with a low assist rate which is even worse when you look at his usage rate. Still a weak finisher and still has too much of a scorer's mentality. He's another player who is also in love with his step back 3's. You love JR that much that you want a PG that plays the same way?

Felton is, hands down, a much better point guard in terms of running an offense and controlling the tempo. It's even better that he does it for much cheaper.

And you want to trade Felton AND Shumpert for Brandon Jennings? Really?

He's a "terrible shooter" who is shooting 38% from downtown. Felton is a genuinely terrible shooter who still has a **decent** 3FG% because he started off so hot. He's dropping like a rock and his overall % is below 40%. He chucks.

Felton is not better than BJ by any stretch of the imagination. BJ just averaged 22.4 and 6.2 in January and unlike Felton, he's very young and getting better still. With Melo and Amar'e and Tyson, his assists would go up significantly.

He's got to take on scoring because Ellis is having a very bad season. But you need a PG who looks to score aggressively too. Even Rondo will do that. Felton, way too aggressive as a scorer because he can't make them. Granted BJ is not the best PG in the league or that efficient, but he's much, much better than Felton in just about every way.

And by the way, Felton's defense is awful.

Very compelling arguments. Thing is you have to convince why we should give up on Shump.

[Thugger HBC]

Novak/JR/KT/White works under checker.

Eh, I'd consider it, but I'm passing if JR is in there.

Not even sure if they would consider that as is, since the have a much rounded Novak on their team already.

[GONYK]

Novak/JR/KT/White works under checker.

Eh, I'd consider it, but I'm passing if JR is in there.

I have been trying to unload JR. I am not against JR the player per se. I just don't like the JR, adopted son of Mike Woodson. Heavy doses of JR gives me heartburn.

I get that, but it is better to have JR then not have him IMO.

[nykballa2k4]

Why don't you post Monta Ellis' stats next and tell me that he's an SG who doesn't suck?

He's a terrible shooter with a low assist rate which is even worse when you look at his usage rate. Still a weak finisher and still has too much of a scorer's mentality. He's another player who is also in love with his step back 3's. You love JR that much that you want a PG that plays the same way?

Felton is, hands down, a much better point guard in terms of running an offense and controlling the tempo. It's even better that he does it for much cheaper.

And you want to trade Felton AND Shumpert for Brandon Jennings? Really?

I hate Jennings game more than anyone, but Felton is by no means some pure-point guard. He has 3 settings: 1) defer outside the arc 2) penetrate to shoot contested floater and 3) glitch, spin move for no reason, chuck ball into 3rd row


IMO, we can be like the Heat, in having below average pg play, but we need to have it be consistent. I would like us to use Brewers contract to obtain some bargain basement point guard who can make a 20 foot jumper as well as penetrate to some degree.

Ish Smith for Brewer
Carlton Lucas III for Thomas
In a dream: Shumpert+Copeland for Bledsoe
Brewer + Copeland + White for Ebanks + Morris

[K_ick_God]

Very compelling arguments. Thing is you have to convince why we should give up on Shump.

Because the Bucks won't swamp him for Felton. If they'll do Felton and JR or Felton and a pick, then great. Do that instead.

[Thugger HBC]

Novak/JR/KT/White works under checker.

Eh, I'd consider it, but I'm passing if JR is in there.

I have been trying to unload JR. I am not against JR the player per se. I just don't like the JR, adopted son of Mike Woodson. Heavy doses of JR gives me heartburn.

JR has alot more value than I think you appreciate.

Not opposed to any trade that improves the team, but I dont think acquiring Jennings improves the team.

He wants to score, which is why I would take Calderon over Lowry.

We dont need a scoring point, we already have that.

[GONYK]

Why don't you post Monta Ellis' stats next and tell me that he's an SG who doesn't suck?

He's a terrible shooter with a low assist rate which is even worse when you look at his usage rate. Still a weak finisher and still has too much of a scorer's mentality. He's another player who is also in love with his step back 3's. You love JR that much that you want a PG that plays the same way?

Felton is, hands down, a much better point guard in terms of running an offense and controlling the tempo. It's even better that he does it for much cheaper.

And you want to trade Felton AND Shumpert for Brandon Jennings? Really?

I hate Jennings game more than anyone, but Felton is by no means some pure-point guard. He has 3 settings: 1) defer outside the arc 2) penetrate to shoot contested floater and 3) glitch, spin move for no reason, chuck ball into 3rd row


IMO, we can be like the Heat, in having below average pg play, but we need to have it be consistent. I would like us to use Brewers contract to obtain some bargain basement point guard who can make a 20 foot jumper as well as penetrate to some degree.

Ish Smith for Brewer
Carlton Lucas III for Thomas
In a dream: Shumpert+Copeland for Bledsoe
Brewer + Copeland + White for Ebanks + Morris

I never said Felton was a pure point. He is much better at doing the things this team needs from the PG position than Jennings is though.

We need a PG who can run the offense. I don't understand how we just went through this month without Felton, and people couldn't see the difference.

As far as PG's go, I'd rather have Jennings than Bledsoe.

[GONYK]

JR has alot more value than I think you appreciate.

Not opposed to any trade that improves the team, but I dont think acquiring Jennings improves the team.

He wants to score, which is why I would take Calderon over Lowry.

We dont need a scoring point, we already have that.

Agreed. Lowry is the real prize to be had here, not Calderon.