Knicks-Related Trade "THOUGHTS" Thread

[K_ick_God]

Look, KG, I'm not a big believer in Felton either, but replacing him with Jennings would be a step in the wrong direction.

I realize a lot of people feel this way. I think Brandon has the brain, skills and heart to be a major force in the league and particularly for the Knicks in NYC running the point.

You put him next to Melo, Amar'e, Tyson and JR (no choice on the latter I guess) and you give yourself a puncher's swing at the Heat.

Knicks, and it pains me to say this, have no chance to beat the Heat with Felton at the helm come playoff time. None.

With BJ, at least some shot.

And yeah, I think he's going to the All-Star game to replace Rondo.

[Thugger HBC]

I'll walk with you KG, what exactly does Jennings do that Felton can't?

[NBA Fan 1234]

Look, KG, I'm not a big believer in Felton either, but replacing him with Jennings would be a step in the wrong direction.

I realize a lot of people feel this way. I think Brandon has the brain, skills and heart to be a major force in the league and particularly for the Knicks in NYC running the point.

You put him next to Melo, Amar'e, Tyson and JR (no choice on the latter I guess) and you give yourself a puncher's swing at the Heat.

Knicks, and it pains me to say this, have no chance to beat the Heat with Felton at the helm come playoff time. None.

With BJ, at least some shot.

And yeah, I think he's going to the All-Star game to replace Rondo.

knicks beat miami twice already. jennings is shooting 34% from the field against miami for his career. 16 points on 15 shots and with only 5.5 assists. sure, you can make an argument that he has had bad teams, but felton managed to beat miami twice this year with fantastic shooting percentages and good ball movement/distribution.

i fail to see how jennings could possibly help us. like i said before, he's a poor defender, a streaky outside shooter who shoots too often, and is not a point guard. kg, and i don't mean any disrespect, but have you actually seen jennings play?

*to add onto my view on jennings* -- he also thinks he's better than he actually is. at least felton knows his role and his talent limitations.

[GONYK]

Look, KG, I'm not a big believer in Felton either, but replacing him with Jennings would be a step in the wrong direction.

I realize a lot of people feel this way. I think Brandon has the brain, skills and heart to be a major force in the league and particularly for the Knicks in NYC running the point.

You put him next to Melo, Amar'e, Tyson and JR (no choice on the latter I guess) and you give yourself a puncher's swing at the Heat.

Knicks, and it pains me to say this, have no chance to beat the Heat with Felton at the helm come playoff time. None.

With BJ, at least some shot.

And yeah, I think he's going to the All-Star game to replace Rondo.

Your thoughts on Brandon Jennings have yet to manifest themselves in reality.

[K_ick_God]

I'll walk with you KG, what exactly does Jennings do that Felton can't?

I'll answer you if you tell me what Melo "can do" that Ellis can't and what Ty Lawson "can do" that Felton can't?

EDITS: I've improved my analogies. Please take a stab.

[K_ick_God]

Look, KG, I'm not a big believer in Felton either, but replacing him with Jennings would be a step in the wrong direction.

I realize a lot of people feel this way. I think Brandon has the brain, skills and heart to be a major force in the league and particularly for the Knicks in NYC running the point.

You put him next to Melo, Amar'e, Tyson and JR (no choice on the latter I guess) and you give yourself a puncher's swing at the Heat.

Knicks, and it pains me to say this, have no chance to beat the Heat with Felton at the helm come playoff time. None.

With BJ, at least some shot.

And yeah, I think he's going to the All-Star game to replace Rondo.

knicks beat miami twice already. jennings is shooting 34% from the field against miami for his career. 16 points on 15 shots and with only 5.5 assists. sure, you can make an argument that he has had bad teams, but felton managed to beat miami twice this year with fantastic shooting percentages and good ball movement/distribution.

i fail to see how jennings could possibly help us. like i said before, he's a poor defender, a streaky outside shooter who shoots too often, and is not a point guard. kg, and i don't mean any disrespect, but have you actually seen jennings play?

*to add onto my view on jennings* -- he also thinks he's better than he actually is. at least felton knows his role and his talent limitations.

Wow I totally disagree that Felton plays within himself. Not at all. It's his biggest problem. He'd be a serviceable backup if he knew his limitations.

Mario Chalmers knows his limitations. Shane Battier knows his limitations.

JR and Felton are the prototypes of players who refuse to accept that they're only going to help their team as marginal role players.

[NBA Fan 1234]

I'll walk with you KG, what exactly does Jennings do that Felton can't?

I'll answer you if you tell me what Melo "can do" that Ellis can't and what Rondo "can do" that Felton can't?

melo can lead a team to the playoffs, whereas ellis cannot. he requires special defensive attention and gameplans, whereas ellis does not. ellis passes as a last result, whereas we have seen melo become a willing passer. ellis is a poor defender, melo is not. melo is clutch -- no idea about ellis.

rondo can run the pick and roll better, get into the paint and finish better (when he decides to actually go up with the shot), and has a surprisingly effective 15-17 foot jumper from the elbow area.

your turn. i really am interested to see what you have to say about bj.

[Fat Kat]

Wow I totally disagree that Felton plays within himself. Not at all. It's his biggest problem. He's a serviceable backup if he knew his limitations.

Have you honestly watched enough games to be an unbiased judge of that KG?

[NBA Fan 1234]

Wow I totally disagree that Felton plays within himself. Not at all. It's his biggest problem. He'd be a serviceable backup if he knew his limitations.

Mario Chalmers knows his limitations. Shane Battier knows his limitations.

JR and Felton are the prototypes of players who refuse to accept that they're only going to help their team as marginal role players.

compared to bj, yes, felton does play within himself. he does not think he is a star point guard; jennings does. their demeanor on the court are completely different.

explain the last sentence to me, please. i'm curious where you got this opinion from.

[K_ick_God]

I'll walk with you KG, what exactly does Jennings do that Felton can't?

I'll answer you if you tell me what Melo "can do" that Ellis can't and what Rondo "can do" that Felton can't?

melo can lead a team to the playoffs, whereas ellis cannot. he requires special defensive attention and gameplans, whereas ellis does not. ellis passes as a last result, whereas we have seen melo become a willing passer. ellis is a poor defender, melo is not. melo is clutch -- no idea about ellis.

rondo can run the pick and roll better, get into the paint and finish better (when he decides to actually go up with the shot), and has a surprisingly effective 15-17 foot jumper from the elbow area.

your turn. i really am interested to see what you have to say about bj.

Not really. Ellis is just a worse and smaller version of Melo. He can do almost all the same things Melo can do, just not as well. Maybe Melo's post game would separate him but Melo really doesn't post that much. Oh Melo can rebound better. OK there is that.

If "can lead a team to the playoffs" is one of the "can's" that you're counting, then Felton (in HIS walk year) couldn't do anything with the Blazers. That team was horrid and bottomed out. Brandon is leading his team to the playoffs currently. That roster is thin.

Brandon is a better 3-point shooter, has a lot of different ways of scoring in the paint where Felton has few, is better in the clutch and sees the floor better.

Not really even worse defensively because Felton is terrible defensively. Almost a complete loss defensively. He goes under screens, has poor lateral movement.

[K_ick_God]

Wow I totally disagree that Felton plays within himself. Not at all. It's his biggest problem. He'd be a serviceable backup if he knew his limitations.

Mario Chalmers knows his limitations. Shane Battier knows his limitations.

JR and Felton are the prototypes of players who refuse to accept that they're only going to help their team as marginal role players.

compared to bj, yes, felton does play within himself. he does not think he is a star point guard; jennings does. their demeanor on the court are completely different.

explain the last sentence to me, please. i'm curious where you got this opinion from.

My opinion is that Felton is a bottom 5-10 PG if you look at the starters in this league. Easily bottom 10. Tell me if you disagree. Many of those guys are really bench players who are starting, and Felton is one of them.

Felton, from all his comments and his many 4-16 type nights, really does not believe this at all. He thinks he's something of a star, still sees himself as a lottery pick even though his career has not lived up to his pick.

I'm not saying Felton is useless. If he played a small role, he could help his team. He doesn't seem smart enough to accept that fact and adjust.

People should just tell me where they rank Felton from 1-30 of the league starters. And where they see Brandon.

It comes down to put up or shut up. Where does he rank? It's not about what he can or can't do -- on any given night Felton can play well and he "can do" different things but he is not consistent or good enough at those things to lead this team to anything close to a title. You're fooling yourself if you think so.

The Felton we've seen lately -- that's him. Chucking and very bad. I was happy to see him perk up against the Hawks. Hopefully it continues but count me as a non-believer.

I would hope to be proven wrong and that I'm kidding myself. That'd be great. Won't happen. Look at Felton's career playoff numbers. 38% and 28% and, I'm sorry to remind us, he got his ass handed to him by Jameer Nelson (Jameer Nelson!) in a sweep. He was then even worse for the Nuggets in his next appearance.

He'll get his third playoff chance this season.

[NBA Fan 1234]

you said yourself, "ellis is just a worse version of melo...he can do almost all the same things Melo can do, just not as well." simply being "not as good" as another player is huge. they can have similar skill sets, but if he is not as effective, then who cares? if his production leads nowhere, which it doesn't, then it's empty.

jennings is leading his team to the playoffs by having the team perform better with him off the court. makes complete sense.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... -off/2013/

felton, while the defense improves with him off the court, at least has the offense clicking on all cylinders. he has a positive effect on the game.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... -off/2013/

jennings' is a marginally better 3 point shooter...it's really minimal. also, for all the crap felton gets for not making shots in the paint, he's still finishing > 50% and gets into the paint more than jennings does.

jennings gets backed down, does not bother fighting through screens, and gambles. no thanks.

as for felton's year with portland -- he said himself that he was out of shape. he came into shape this year so, to be honest, i don't care about that year.

[K_ick_God]

you said yourself, "ellis is just a worse version of melo...he can do almost all the same things Melo can do, just not as well." simply being "not as good" as another player is huge. they can have similar skill sets, but if he is not as effective, then who cares? if his production leads nowhere, which it doesn't, then it's empty.

jennings is leading his team to the playoffs by having the team perform better with him off the court. makes complete sense.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... -off/2013/

felton, while the defense improves with him off the court, at least has the offense clicking on all cylinders. he has a positive effect on the game.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... -off/2013/

jennings' is a marginally better 3 point shooter...it's really minimal. also, for all the crap felton gets for not making shots in the paint, he's still finishing > 50% and gets into the paint more than jennings does.

jennings gets backed down, does not bother fighting through screens, and gambles. no thanks.

as for felton's year with portland -- he said himself that he was out of shape. he came into shape this year so, to be honest, i don't care about that year.

So you rank Felton ahead of Brandon?

[NBA Fan 1234]

[quote="KnicksGod"
My opinion is that Felton is a bottom 5-10 PG if you look at the starters in this league. Easily bottom 10. Tell me if you disagree. Many of those guys are really bench players who are starting, and Felton is one of them.

Felton, from all his comments and his many 4-16 type nights, really does not believe this at all. He thinks he's something of a star, still sees himself as a lottery pick even though his career has not lived up to his pick.

I'm not saying Felton is useless. If he played a small role, he could help his team. He doesn't seems smart enough to accept that fact and adjust.

People should just tell me where they rank Felton from 1-30 of the league starters. And where they see Brandon.

It comes down to put up or shut up. Where does he rank? It's not about what he can or can't do -- on any given night Felton can play well and he "can do" different things but he is not consistent or good enough at those things to lead this team to anything close to a title. You're fooling yourself if you think so.

The Felton we've seen lately -- that's him. Chucking and very bad. i was happy to see him perk up against the Hawks. Hopefully it continues but count me as a non-believer.

I would hope to be proven wrong and that I'm kidding myself. That'd be great. Won't happen. Look at Felton's career playoff numbers. 38% and 28% and, I'm sorry to remind us, he got his ass handed to him by Jameer Nelson (Jameer Nelson!) in a sweep. He was then even worse for the Nuggets in his next appearance.

He'll get his third playoff chance this season.[/quote]

bottom 10? i probably wouldn't disagree with that. however, i'd put jennings around the same area.

felton has been playing a smaller role since he came back from injury. sure, it's only been 2 games...but 8 shots and 9 shots? that's the perfect amount for him. he was forced into taking a higher # of shots earlier in the season because of injuries and lack of offensive players - same as jr.

is brandon consistent? last year was his most consisten year...and it was still horrible. this year, he's been all over the place.

felton's playoff numbers are somewhat skewed considering he was playing on the bobcats...his numbers two years ago with denver i'll also give a pass. new team, new coach, coming off the bench, etc.

this will be his first year playing with a good team for an entire year.

[NBA Fan 1234]

So you rank Felton ahead of Brandon?

dunno. definitely within a spot or two either way. i don't think either one is great. if anything, i just believe felton is the lesser of two evils.

[K_ick_God]

bottom 10? i probably wouldn't disagree with that. however, i'd put jennings around the same area.

felton has been playing a smaller role since he came back from injury. sure, it's only been 2 games...but 8 shots and 9 shots? that's the perfect amount for him. he was forced into taking a higher # of shots earlier in the season because of injuries and lack of offensive players - same as jr.

is brandon consistent? last year was his most consisten year...and it was still horrible. this year, he's been all over the place.

felton's playoff numbers are somewhat skewed considering he was playing on the bobcats...his numbers two years ago with denver i'll also give a pass. new team, new coach, coming off the bench, etc.

this will be his first year playing with a good team for an entire year.

Actually, Jameer dominating his matchup with Felton was one of the main reasons that Charlotte got wiped out in that series.

He was then horrid with the Nuggets.

This just sounds like excuse making.

Brandon is no worse than 15 and arguably as high as 8-10. But more importantly, there's not much of a difference between 8 and 15 in the league right now. He's not that much worse than Lawson and brings things Lawson does not IMO.

[GONYK]

What does Jennings bring that Lawson doesn't?

[GONYK]

And no way Jennings is headed to the ASG

[NBA Fan 1234]

i know it sounds like i'm making excuses...i was thinking that as i was typing it. however, i still believe that.

brandon isn't sniffing the top 10...c'mon. paul, williams, rondo, curry, holiday, calderon, lowry, rubio, lawson, miller, westbrook, lillard, jack, nash (even though he's having a bad year), paul, bledsoe, dragic, hill, lin (meh), rose, kyrie, teague, nelson, wall, parker, conley, vasquez, and maybe even collison / mo williams. i'd take every one of those guys, i think, over jennings (and most of them over felton as well).

i also fail to see how he's "not much worse than lawson." also, what does he bring that lawson doesn't?

[K_ick_God]

What does Jennings bring that Lawson doesn't?

More PPG, better 3 ball, longer arms, more versatile scorer in the paint, naturally more gifted (which matters in the long run).

Brandon actually has a higher career assist average than Lawson, though that's not exactly what I was talking about.

But I think Brandon is a more natural PG than Lawson and that kind of is what I was getting at in part.