The Trade Thread

[SWedd523]

List of big men not averaging 15/10 on 50% shooting:

Blake Griffin
Marc Gasol
LaMarcus Aldridge
Paul Millsap
Al Jefferson
Tim Duncan
Brook Lopez
Chris Bosh
Kevin Garnett
Joakim Noah
Zach Randolph
Serge Ibaka
Al Horford
Tyson Chandler
.....



actually, the list of guys actually producing 15/10 on 50% is much shorter: Dwight Howard and David Lee.


If Kanter is capable of "conservatively" producing at that level right now, he wouldn't be averaging 14 minutes a night on a .500 team

[MasterIchiro]

Put me on that island with Bass, Misterglover and dmutombo.

I joined the site recently (only a lowly freshman) but I can attest to having severe anxiety over the pick. I wanted to trade down, trade Hendo and try to scoop up both Drummond, Lamb and a late first from the Cavs. I was shocked the Cavs didn't do more to draft up and take Beal and instead snubbed us in favor of Dion Waiters of all people who was the surprise pick of the draft if you ask me. Either that or the front office really loved MKG which to me is hard to believe because Jordan slammed him in the press. I suspect MKG was a default pick. In other words, an opportunity to trade down did not materialize. I was also for Harrison Barnes but that's just because of his 3-pt shooting. Being a UConn guy, I was always partial to Drummond and Lamb.

[Kembastockton]

I have no problem hanging out on that island with you and anyone else. I was adamently against picking him, but not because he's a bad player. I felt he would never reach the level of player that Beal or Robinson could (or Lillard for that matter but we already had a PG). Robinson started very slow also, and while he may yet prove to be an underachiever, he is making progress. Hyphen is young, and he will be much better next season, but I just don't see his ceiling as anything close to a borderline star. His offensive limitations will forever haunt the team he plays for. DMutumbo made excellent reasoned points, as has Mr. Glover. In the NBA, you gotta put the ball in the basket! Michael is an athlete no doubt, but just not as special as we all hoped he would be.

His only offensive limitation is his bad jumper. He has at least average handles for a small forward. He is as quick as about any evidenced by the fact that he gets to the basket at will. And the most important offensive skill he has is the fact that he knows how much he needs to improve, and is known to be willing to work hard to make those improvements. I really don't understand how you guys can be so quick to count MKG out only half way through his rookie year. I mean really I could see if he was a big man averaging 3 pts. and 4 rbs. He is a three averaging 10 and 6 reb without any plays being run for him.

^ I never thought he had the ability to be an elite player and nothing about that has changed....now im just confused as hell as to what some of you are watching that im not seeing that makes you feel that way, other than just hope and love of the team....

The second youngest person behind Lebron James to have 25 pts and 12 rbs. in a game.

List of big men not averaging 15/10 on 50% shooting:

Blake Griffin
Marc Gasol
LaMarcus Aldridge
Paul Millsap
Al Jefferson
Tim Duncan
Brook Lopez
Chris Bosh
Kevin Garnett
Joakim Noah
Zach Randolph
Serge Ibaka
Al Horford
Tyson Chandler
.....



actually, the list of guys actually producing 15/10 on 50% is much shorter: Dwight Howard and David Lee.


If Kanter is capable of "conservatively" producing at that level right now, he wouldn't be averaging 14 minutes a night on a .500 team

Thanks Swedd maybe that info will help these guys understand that we are talking about potential with all of these Kidds. They could all bust or they could all be successful. Only time will tell.

[MasterIchiro]

I was browsing Memphis salary allocation and it still looks like they have a budget crisis with two big men making huge money and not enough to go around to round out their roster. A significant amount of their resources are tied up in 2 players. I'm wondering if they plan to pair newly acquired Ed Davis with Marc Gasol and trade away Zach Randolph. Would anyone be interested in acquiring Zach Randolph? Do we match up with Memphis? I would think with all these picks we certainly do. Would Biyombo interest them?

[SWedd523]

The second youngest person behind Lebron James to have 25 pts and 12 rbs. in a game.

Seriously, let's do another list:



There have only been three teenagers to ever have multiple 25/10 games in the NBA.

LeBron James
Carmelo Anthony
and our own Michael Kidd-Gilchrist

http://bkref.com/tiny/U1QO5


clearly we should a) give up on him because he just doesn't have it in him to be anything more than a role player and b) trade him AND Bismack for Enes Kanter. I mean seriously, you can't make this stuff up

[HornetJail]

Yeah that actually makes so much sense. Let's do it!






Oh wait, we're not Utah.

[thruthefire]

MKG's production over the first two months of the season blows away anything anyone in this draft outside of Davis, Drummond and Lillard have accomplished to date. If you don't like the guy, fine, but let's chill on hyping up far inferior players like Barnes, Robinson, Beal and Lamb.

[misterglover]

riiiight Sweed and because he had a 25pt 10 reb game lets just close our eyes and act like he's not a guy with a horrible jump shot, doesn't have an offensive mentality, is average height for a SF so no advantage there either....

Or riddle me this batman, why do u think it is that on a team that is horrible and basically an expansion team desperately looking for a star/franshcise player the coach doesn't run plays for him or get him more shots....i mean our main focus above anything else should be developing the young guys right??

I'm not saying trade the guy today what im saying is some of guys are sitting here with blinders on and presenting stats and PERs and all that other garbage and I've watched and played enough ball to go by what we call the eye test and he doesn't pass mine. If you wanna hold out hope cool, if u like your high lottery picks to be 6'7-6'8 guys who can't put the ball in the hoop or that other teams dont have to respect offensively cool... that doesn't float my boat.

Anybody that has played a serious amount of ball knows that u cannot change ur game you work to improve it and tweak or add different aspects but u can't change who you are. They didn't really run plays for him at UK either he got his points from hustling, running the floor, and that he was more athletic than most of his matchups. That ain't working on this level. If your expecting MKG to be anything more than a role player, which is what I think all us guys "on the island" are saying we think he is, then his game needs to be changed for that.

And no stat or fact u post is gonna change that until I see it and I dont, never have and dont think I will. I think we have Crash 2.0, which id be perfectly fine with if he wasn't the #2 pick.

[SWedd523]

[HornetJail]

[misterglover]

Seriously

[KembaWalker]

Emeka Okafor won rookie of the year over Dwight Howard. Tyreke won it over James Harden. relax people

[Liver_Pooty]

This will all be hilarious next year when MKG is averaging 16 and 7 as a 20 year old.

He isn't going anywhere.

[amcoolio]

MKG is here to stay and finding a true SF who can dribble and play point forward later in his career yet is great at defense and rebounding is extremely rare. Kanter at best will be a fringe all-star. No thanks.

If we win the lottery though and Noel is the clear prize (which he will be by June, a center with his ability is even harder to find), then I could see trading Bismack for a Kanter type. Noel will be younger than Bismack, taller, better BBIQ, better offensively, and a better rebounder.

[HornetJail]

Emeka Okafor won rookie of the year over Dwight Howard. Tyreke won it over James Harden. relax people

Thank you, Voice of Reason, thank you!

[dmutombo321]

List of big men not averaging 15/10 on 50% shooting:

Blake Griffin
Marc Gasol
LaMarcus Aldridge
Paul Millsap
Al Jefferson
Tim Duncan
Brook Lopez
Chris Bosh
Kevin Garnett
Joakim Noah
Zach Randolph
Serge Ibaka
Al Horford
Tyson Chandler
.....



actually, the list of guys actually producing 15/10 on 50% is much shorter: Dwight Howard and David Lee.

The uninformed basketball eye might look at that list of players and assume that achieving 15/10/50% is an absurd, Bill Russell-esque super human-feat.

In actuality, its not a radical statement to make (David Lee’s inclusion on your exception list with Howard hints to this) and over the years there have routinely been non-superstar caliber players who have posted those types of season averages.

Buck Williams, who will certainly never be talked about as a hall of fame inductee like several of the guys you list averaged over 16 and 11 on over 55% shooting over a span of seven seasons. Most of those years, Williams didn’t even receive Allstar game invites.

Anthony Mason did it with the Hornets (16/11/52% shooting w/ no all star nod)

Rony Seikley has posted those season averages before with the Heat and he didn’t receive an all star bid either.

Vlade Divac has it done it too and I can name several others.

Hell, even Okafor nearly hit the milestone one year for Charlotte falling only 1/2 ppg shy.

So a 15/10/50%, while impressive, is not a drastically astonishing claim like you make it out to be. All of these guys are good players, none of them franchise caliber talents, who were good pivots but had their flaws as well.

Accordingly, I unequivocally stand by that 15/10/50% statement and fully expect that you’ll eventually see numbers in that realm once Kanter becomes some team’s starting center and is logging close to 40 minutes a night. The fact that I make such a statement is a testament to the type of crafty, below the rim, blue collar throwback player I view Kanter as being, which as your list highlights, is much less common in the league now a days.

If Kanter is capable of "conservatively" producing at that level right now, he wouldn't be averaging 14 minutes a night on a .500 team

As already discussed, extenuating circumstances prevent Kanter from getting minutes right now and it has nothing to do with his play. He’s on the bench not because he’s a stiff but because he happens to play behind two allstar bigmen to whom Utah is collectively paying $24 million dollars this year and he has to split limited bench minutes with another big who was a top 3 draft pick as well.

This will all be hilarious next year when MKG is averaging 16 and 7 as a 20 year old.

He isn't going anywhere.

I dont doubt for one minute that Gilchrist could eventually become a 16/7 type guy. Being so young, I expect he'll make some leaps. Nobody is saying he's garbage. But his success will be based off of hustle plays, put backs and fast break baskets, much like Gerald Wallace. He's going to be a very good role player who might even make an allstar appearance someday. But anyone who thinks he's going to become a top SF in the game is wearing the rose colored glasses.

[Eoghan]

You just don't draft the youngest players in consecutive drafts and then trade them before you reap the rewards of developing them. I don't know why that is so hard for you some of you guys to understand. If we wanted to be better right away, we would have drafted more NBA ready players. We drafted Bismack and Kidd-Gilchrist not b/c they would come in and immediately contribute but b/c they have the potential to be franchise cornerstones.

Biyombo is a 4 year project at least and MKG is a 2-3 year project. Deal with it. I wanted to draft Drummond and other players too but you don't see me hitting the panic button and offering our projects for other team's projects just to switch it up.

[Liver_Pooty]

You just don't draft the youngest players in consecutive drafts and then trade them before you reap the rewards of developing them. I don't know why that is so hard for you some of you guys to understand. If we wanted to be better right away, we would have drafted more NBA ready players. We drafted Bismack and Kidd-Gilchrist not b/c they would come in and immediately contribute but b/c they have the potential to be franchise cornerstones.

Biyombo is a 4 year project at least and MKG is a 2-3 year project. Deal with it. I wanted to draft Drummond and other players too but you don't see me hitting the panic button and offering our projects for other team's projects just to switch it up.

This.

Enough of this Biyombo/MKG for Kanter talk. Its making me nauseous.

[dmutombo321]

I wanted to draft Drummond and other players too but you don't see me hitting the panic button and offering our projects for other team's projects just to switch it up.

I wouldnt necessarily equate considering the swap of one top 3 pick for another who is basically the same age but a different postion as hitting the panic button. Its done on draft night all the time.

I think the reason you see it less often during lotto picks' rookie seasons also has alot to do with other variables with merchandising and PR being a biggie.

In our case, MKG is a great kid, a hard worker and a nice guy and judging by the fan turnout at most of the games, he's also their top selling jersey along with Kemba.

I doubt we'll see him go anywhere. But as talked about earlier, if a team see's a player's development plateauing early, its advisable to explore salvaging value via trade before the rest of the league learns the same thing.

[BlackOutBuzz]

You just don't draft the youngest players in consecutive drafts and then trade them before you reap the rewards of developing them. I don't know why that is so hard for you some of you guys to understand. If we wanted to be better right away, we would have drafted more NBA ready players. We drafted Bismack and Kidd-Gilchrist not b/c they would come in and immediately contribute but b/c they have the potential to be franchise cornerstones.

Biyombo is a 4 year project at least and MKG is a 2-3 year project. Deal with it. I wanted to draft Drummond and other players too but you don't see me hitting the panic button and offering our projects for other team's projects just to switch it up.

Nah man, Biz and MKG are busts, and Kemba Chucker is a poor man's Nate Robinson. We're screwed, can you believe we gave away Jeremy Tyler???? What a difference he'd make right about now... Might as well blow it up and start over...wait.

Seriously though, MKG wasn't in my top 5 prospects last year. After the obvious (Davis) I liked Beal, Lamb, Drummond, Robinson...heck I even liked Barnes more as a SF prospect. MKG proved me wrong though, but even if he hadn't he'd still be my guy because halfway through a kid's rookie season is way too early to give up on him. Same with Biz, we all knew he was at least a 3-year project when we drafted him, so I'm not seeing the big issue when we're only 1.5 years into it.

Typically kids don't come into the NBA as teenagers and set the world on fire, Kemba's having a fantastic year but he's also 22, hell Lillard's only two months younger than Kemba. MKG will be in his 4th season when he's the age of current rookie Lillard. Also, Bill Simmons noted in the "Book of Basketball" that wings tend to really hit their stride at 24 (maybe 23, but I'm thinking it was 24), by that time MKG will be entering his 6th season, frankly I'm excited to watch this kid grow for the next few years.

Keep in mind that no one is truly untouchable IMO, but at this point I'd find it damn near impossible to find a suitable offer for Kemba or MKG. I don't see them going anywhere anytime soon. As far as value goes I'd rank Biz 3rd, but I could see moving him for another young center (a la Kanter), but even still. I fully expect us to make something happen by the deadline, and every asset (players and picks) aside from them is expendable if it means acquiring more young talent.

EDIT: Though I guess Haywood is technically untouchable too, but for a different reason...