GT#46: Miami Heat @ Brooklyn Nets |1/30| 8:00pm | ESPN

[Paradise]

A post that pretty much sums the loss up from NetsDaily:

I know last night it seemed like we’re really far off from competing with Miami, but after thinking about it this morning, I really don’t think that we’re really that far and here’s why:

3rd quarter stats:

Miami:

15-23 (65%)
3-4 from three
3-3 FT
3 Offensive REB
6 DR
9 Total rebounds
7 AST
3 STL’s
1 TO
36 PTS

Nets:
5-12 FG (42%)
1-4 from three
3-3 FT
0 offensive REB
4 DR
4 TOT REB
4 AST
0 STL’s
8 TO’s
14 PTS

Reggie Evans played 5:45 and was a -5
Andray Blatche played 4:38 (w/ Lopez) and was a -12
Teletovic played 1:38 and was a +2

Obviously the TO’s were the biggest downfall of this team in the third quarter. Our defense sucked but that’s what happens when you turn the ball over. So why did the turnovers happen? IMO it is lack of floor spacing. When you have Reggie Evans and Andray Blatche on the floor, it allows opponents to double team Joe, Brook and Deron. Those three combined for 7 of the 8 TO’s in that third quarter. When you have someone who can space the floor and keep the defense honest, such as Teletovic, it won’t allow for double teams. And if they do try and double and leave Tele, he will knock down shots. Maybe Reggie Evans is a more experienced player, but there is a reason he is not a starter. He is a guy that needs to come in the game for 10-15 minutes and "muck it up." Putting Tele in the starting lineup will allow our big-three to breathe more. I think at halftime, Miami recognized that when Reggie or Blatche are in the game with the starters, that it’s time to start doubling Brook, D-Will and Joe.

I also don’t think that Reggie is really a bad player. I just think he is best suited for a second unit role with this team where the main offensive plays will be Marshon and Blatche isolations.

So here’s the message to PJ – until Billy gets you a PF, it is in the best interest of the team to play Teletovic with the starters due to floor spacing. And by the way, in 6 less minutes than Evans, Teletovic grabbed the same amount of rebounds (6).

ALSO:

I just re-watched the entire third quarter:

I’m watching every TO.

-The first one came when they doubled Lopez on the elbow, Chalmers stole the ball.

-The second one came when they doubled Joe, he was forced to pass to Reggie, and Reggie had that horrendous play where he turned it over and lost his head-band.

-The third was the D-Will charge call, he spilt a double and Haslem stepped up

-4th one was a Joe double team in the post and Joe just threw it away (led to LeBron dunk)

-the 5th one was a high double team on Joe Johnson and he threw the pass over Blatche’s head into the crowd

-The 6th one was a double team on D-Will and he just threw it away stolen by Chalmers

-The 7th one was a pass to Lopez cutting under the hoop on the baseline and he dibbled off his foot out-of-bounds

-And finally the 8th one was the one where D-Will just threw the inbounds pass away

And guess what:

With Tele in the game, D-Will just drove to the hoop for an and-1 because there was no double team from Tele’s man.

I'm telling you, It's a spacing issue with the turnovers. It's a correctable issue that probably could have gotten us atleast 2 wins going back to Houston and last night.

[rj2496]

We are far from competing with Miami though. The numbers don't lie. We've been blown out 3 times in a row, thats all I really need to see. I can careless about the other numbers/stats. I don't care that we were close for a half. We've been blown out 3 times by them. Not close games, but blown out.

[NyCeEvO]

You have to look at both sides of the coin. That posts talks about everything we did wrong, but it didn't really get into everything Miami did right.

We were trailing for most of the first half but ended the 2nd quarter on a strong push. Then Miami went nuclear and just gave a quick blitzkrieg of offense and defense on us.

It was tied 55-55 with at the 7:50 mark of the 3rd quarter.

By the 4:20 mark, they were up 71-57.

We didn't make a single shot between 7:28 and 3:47 of the 3rd quarter. In that timespan, Miami had one layup, one 3ft shot, one 11ft jumper, two 18ft jumpers, and one 3pt shot.

One 4 minute span in which Miami decided that we were not going to score and they make their jumpshots really decided what happened.

A lot of people look at our point totals and say "we don't need offense" but it many ways we do need offense, but we a consistent offense. There are way too many times where we don't score for a few minutes or score 1-2 baskets over a 5-6 minute stretch.

When you play the garbage teams, you can wake up and score your points again and make what was a horrific stretch of basketball only a marginally bad one. Our defense can do well against mediocre teams but when we play against good teams with size (Memphis) or small and athletic teams (Miami), we struggle cuz we really don't have talent that performs consistently at a pretty high level outside of Lopez.

Our defense is not going to stop Miami, so if you intend to win you're going to need to put up points and we simply could not put up points consistently. We were teetering on the edge the entire game and when the right stretch of lack of offense came, the game blew open because we already know that the defense isn't good enough to beat the elite teams.

It's a personnel issue.

And to diverge too much but it's tough to be the '04 Pistons. I specifically remember D-Will and others saying that while we may not have superstars, we have a collection of good players and they think it's enough to be '04 Piston like. While those Pistons didn't have offensive superstars, they sure played world class team defense.

Yet even still, many people argue that the superstar team of LAL would've won had Kobe & Shaq didn't boil over and they could play within system together.

If you want to win against the best, you're going to need one of the best. If D-Will is not going to play at a superstar level, someone else needs to or else we don't have a chance. That is the bottom line.

If you don't have anyone else to play at that level, you're toast. This is exactly why Proky will still go after D12 until it's no longer possible.

He wants a guy who knows can be a superstar. Yes, he's not healthy. Yes, he's not particularly good right now, but there isn't an open market on acquiring superstars right now, especially with our assets.

Proky wants to win and he wants to win now. He sees Dwight as someone who can be a superstar if healthy and I'm quite certain he will pursue it even at the cost of giving up Brook.

[PetroNet]

the idea that effort or leadership is the issue vs teams like the heat and spurs and grizzlies is hilarious. these teams are better than us. easily. they are more talented, they are better coached, they play instinctive, cohesive basketball. were a slow moving, slow thinking team that struggles to get any easy baskets, plays **** defense, generates very few opportunities through ball and off ball movement, and relies heavily on mediocre isolation players.

its not an issue vs the heat, spurs, and griz. its an issue vs everyone we played the last 2 weeks.

[Paradise]

You have to look at both sides of the coin. That posts talks about everything we did wrong, but it didn't really get into everything Miami did right.

We were trailing for most of the first half but ended the 2nd quarter on a strong push. Then Miami went nuclear and just gave a quick blitzkrieg of offense and defense on us.

It was tied 55-55 with at the 7:50 mark of the 3rd quarter.

By the 4:20 mark, they were up 71-57.

We didn't make a single shot between 7:28 and 3:47 of the 3rd quarter. In that timespan, Miami had one layup, one 3ft shot, one 11ft jumper, two 18ft jumpers, and one 3pt shot.

One 4 minute span in which Miami decided that we were not going to score and they make their jumpshots really decided what happened.

A lot of people look at our point totals and say "we don't need offense" but it many ways we do need offense, but we a consistent offense. There are way too many times where we don't score for a few minutes or score 1-2 baskets over a 5-6 minute stretch.

When you play the garbage teams, you can wake up and score your points again and make what was a horrific stretch of basketball only a marginally bad one. Our defense can do well against mediocre teams but when we play against good teams with size (Memphis) or small and athletic teams (Miami), we struggle cuz we really don't have talent that performs consistently at a pretty high level outside of Lopez.

Our defense is not going to stop Miami, so if you intend to win you're going to need to put up points and we simply could not put up points consistently. We were teetering on the edge the entire game and when the right stretch of lack of offense came, the game blew open because we already know that the defense isn't good enough to beat the elite teams.

It's a personnel issue.

And to diverge too much but it's tough to be the '04 Pistons. I specifically remember D-Will and others saying that while we may not have superstars, we have a collection of good players and they think it's enough to be '04 Piston like. While those Pistons didn't have offensive superstars, they sure played world class team defense.

Yet even still, many people argue that the superstar team of LAL would've won had Kobe & Shaq didn't boil over and they could play within system together.

If you want to win against the best, you're going to need one of the best. If D-Will is not going to play at a superstar level, someone else needs to or else we don't have a chance. That is the bottom line.

If you don't have anyone else to play at that level, you're toast. This is exactly why Proky will still go after D12 until it's no longer possible.

He wants a guy who knows can be a superstar. Yes, he's not healthy. Yes, he's not particularly good right now, but there isn't an open market on acquiring superstars right now, especially with our assets.

Proky wants to win and he wants to win now. He sees Dwight as someone who can be a superstar if healthy and I'm quite certain he will pursue it even at the cost of giving up Brook.

Rebounding and defense is what got them back into the game and tied it up. Defense is what got Boston the win against them on Sunday. Because they had two guards who could defend them which makes up for the lack of Rondo. You aren't going to score if you're best weapons are only 3 guys and the Heat have 5 defenders.

Are the Knicks an athletic team? No. Is Boston an athletic team? No. Was Dallas athletic? Yet, all of these older teams continuously beat Miami and the athletic Thunder consistently come up short.

If you want to beat Miami. You better beat them at their weakness and it's rebounding and forcing them to defend you with crisp passing. The passing was tremendous in the 2nd quarter, there was a play where Blatche and Johnson trapped Wade along the baseline and he threw a pass that went right to Reggie Evans, what happened? We went out running on the fastbreak. Deron pushed the ball up, got it to Lopez on the top of the 3 point line, Lopez made a hard drive and found Wallace cutting and got him two easy baskets.

Consistent movement, outside shooting, rebounding and rotation on defense is what beats Miami. This team cannot guard guys on a consistent basis and the funny thing is, half of the guys who are suddenly suck at defense are guys who just came right from a defensive team.

Go after Dwight Howard. It still isn't going to change until there is a defensive identity instead of basic crap that can be exploited.

The team makes beating Miami look like pulling teeth when it's quite doable. Yet, there isn't anyone on this team that has a clue how to do it. That goes from coaches to players.

But again, I can't exactly get mad too much because we knew without the Dwight trade, we wouldn't be able to fully say we were going to compete but it's really not that difficult especially since the play small. My only thing that I would say this board should understand is, It took awhile before the LeBron Heat beat Boston, it took awhile before the Knicks (swept last season) beat Miami. So, from the last 3 season every "new kid" on the block pretty much had to pay their dues before competing against them or Boston.

[NyCeEvO]

The first of my post addressed the fact that we don't have the personnel to matchup well against Miami. Yes, we have to guys that get a lot of rebounds, but they don't have great technique and they certainly can't dominate the boards when teams are either athletic or they're just flat out bigger than us.

This team won't be a dominating rebounding team unless everyone commits to properly boxing out their man and making sure that it's a point of emphasis.

With our current group of guys, we have the opportunity to be a decent defensive team, but again our attention to detail is pretty crappy regarding all facets of defense.

In addition to that, the second part of my post was a digression to the overall picture of this team.

In the end, the playoffs are what matter. In the past two years, only one team has beat the Heat, and even then it took a fantastic level of play from Dirk and co. and the crumbling of LBJ in the pressure situation to take them out.

Since 2010, no one in the East has been able to take out or even severely threaten a full-strength Miami team.

The Knicks, Bulls, and Celtics have all bragged about regular season wins the past two years thinking that their success in the regular season will roll over to the postseason, but when MIA has been at full-strength, it doesn't really matter.

Personally, I think MIA is bored of the regular season. Wallace comments "they're not 20 points better than us" and I can just see LBJ snickering and saying "wait til the playoffs". The Heat have 1-2 more gears than most teams.

As I said during the game in the GT, they weren't even really trying. We were losing most of the way (anywhere from a 4-10 point difference) and then we made a run at the end of the 2nd to tie it up at half.

All it took was 4 minutes of 2nd tier MIA basketball and the doors were blown off. We do not want to face that team in the playoffs when LBJ has no need to hold back. Don't underestimate them.

[Paradise]

The first of my post addressed the fact that we don't have the personnel to matchup well against Miami. Yes, we have to guys that get a lot of rebounds, but they don't have great technique and they certainly can't dominate the boards when teams are either athletic or they're just flat out bigger than us.

This team won't be a dominating rebounding team unless everyone commits to properly boxing out their man and making sure that it's a point of emphasis.

With our current group of guys, we have the opportunity to be a decent defensive team, but again our attention to detail is pretty crappy regarding all facets of defense.

In addition to that, the second part of my post was a digression to the overall picture of this team.

In the end, the playoffs are what matter. In the past two years, only one team has beat the Heat, and even then it took a fantastic level of play from Dirk and co. and the crumbling of LBJ in the pressure situation to take them out.

Since 2010, no one in the East has been able to take out or even severely threaten a full-strength Miami team.

The Knicks, Bulls, and Celtics have all bragged about regular season wins the past two years thinking that their success in the regular season will roll over to the postseason, but when MIA has been at full-strength, it doesn't really matter.

Personally, I think MIA is bored of the regular season. Wallace comments "they're not 20 points better than us" and I can just see LBJ snickering and saying "wait til the playoffs". The Heat have 1-2 more gears than most teams.

As I said during the game in the GT, they weren't even really trying. We were losing most of the way (anywhere from a 4-10 point difference) and then we made a run at the end of the 2nd to tie it up at half.

All it took was 4 minutes of 2nd tier MIA basketball and the doors were blown off. We do not want to face that team in the playoffs when LBJ has no need to hold back. Don't underestimate them.

Last year's Celtics would like to have a word with you. Look, the Heat are good but they are still weak in their own areas of the game.

The whole "they weren't really trying" thing is just ridiculous. LeBron scored and became aggressive after being passive in the 1st half and it was to be expected, it had nothing to do with anyone else. They played the same defense. If anything the Nets were not trying and I'm not taking anything away from the Heat.

With that logic, the NBA might as well just give them the title next week and call it a season. Trying or not trying, every other team in the league has had better effort and better poise against Miami. This team does not. They talk a big game but when they finally go toe to toe, they play half-assed basketball.

You can be very much a halfcourt old team against the Heat and compete and mentally wear them down like Boston. You can be a halfcourt old team that can make them work on defense like the Knicks.

Until, the Nets put in a real offensive system and put together a collection of months together where they trust within what their doing. They are not going to beat Miami or Boston or whoever because soon as someone hits back, they go into Iso sloppy basketball mode. All of the keys that will get you a lead or keep you within the game, they suddenly decide to go away from and instead of trying to compete and fight back they give up like little children getting bullied.

Teams that have taken Miami to their limit have been mentally tough and stuck to their principles win or lose. This team simply does not.

That's how a Rondo-less Celtics team can beat Miami and force them to make all sorts of turnovers in Overtime. Meanwhile, we can't keep up doing that for 48 minutes.

[therealbig3]

^Last year's Celtics only took the Heat to 7 because they didn't have Bosh for most of the series, and Wade was hobbled. Obviously if you take away or severely limit two of a team's three best players, then they're not going to be nearly as good. Had they been healthy, Miami sweeps Boston, or gives them a mercy win and takes them out in 5.

Nobody's even threatening a healthy Miami team in the East, not even a Bulls team with Rose imo (they had pre-ACL injury Rose in 2011, and got curbstomped, and LeBron's better now than he was then).

If their big 3 can stay healthy through the playoffs, they're better than they were last year. They have better role players (same basic group as last year + Ray Allen), and imo, LeBron is playing the best basketball of his career this year. Wade is healthier and better than he was last year too.

They're going to be scary good in the playoffs, and yeah, if we play them, I see a pretty embarrassing sweep for us.

[NyCeEvO]

Last year's Celtics would like to have a word with you. Look, the Heat are good but they are still weak in their own areas of the game.

^Last year's Celtics only took the Heat to 7 because they didn't have Bosh for most of the series, and Wade was hobbled. Obviously if you take away or severely limit two of a team's three best players, then they're not going to be nearly as good. Had they been healthy, Miami sweeps Boston, or gives them a mercy win and takes them out in 5.

Nobody's even threatening a healthy Miami team in the East, not even a Bulls team with Rose imo (they had pre-ACL injury Rose in 2011, and got curbstomped, and LeBron's better now than he was then).

If their big 3 can stay healthy through the playoffs, they're better than they were last year. They have better role players (same basic group as last year + Ray Allen), and imo, LeBron is playing the best basketball of his career this year. Wade is healthier and better than he was last year too.

They're going to be scary good in the playoffs, and yeah, if we play them, I see a pretty embarrassing sweep for us.

Thank you.

As I said, no one in the East is really competing with a healthy Heat team. As soon as the Heat got Bosh back from injury, they picked apart Boston.

The whole "they weren't really trying" thing is just ridiculous. LeBron scored and became aggressive after being passive in the 1st half and it was to be expected, it had nothing to do with anyone else. They played the same defense. If anything the Nets were not trying and I'm not taking anything away from the Heat.

With that logic, the NBA might as well just give them the title next week and call it a season. Trying or not trying, every other team in the league has had better effort and better poise against Miami. This team does not. They talk a big game but when they finally go toe to toe, they play half-assed basketball.

You can be very much a halfcourt old team against the Heat and compete and mentally wear them down like Boston. You can be a halfcourt old team that can make them work on defense like the Knicks.

Until, the Nets put in a real offensive system and put together a collection of months together where they trust within what their doing. They are not going to beat Miami or Boston or whoever because soon as someone hits back, they go into Iso sloppy basketball mode. All of the keys that will get you a lead or keep you within the game, they suddenly decide to go away from and instead of trying to compete and fight back they give up like little children getting bullied.

Teams that have taken Miami to their limit have been mentally tough and stuck to their principles win or lose. This team simply does not.

That's how a Rondo-less Celtics team can beat Miami and force them to make all sorts of turnovers in Overtime. Meanwhile, we can't keep up doing that for 48 minutes.

No one in the East taken Miami to their limit when it actually counts.

Sure, they'll lose regular season games and teams will think they have the upper hand, but until I see a EC team beat a healthy MIA team in the playoffs, I'm not buying the fact that there are other teams who can legitimately contend with them.

After Miami made the Finals the previous year, they didn't dominate the following regular season. They had embarrassing regular season losses and disputes. Wade was dealing with injuries throughout most of the season and as soon as teams like the Pacers and Knicks started talking as if they could beat them in the playoffs, they just took it to another level in the playoffs.

The playoffs are 7-games series that are actually to the advantage of teams with superstars.

When you're playing a do-or-die series and you don't have to worry about facing a different team the next game, all of your collective energy is poured into that finding out the other teams weakness. This is why even when MIA was down in their series last year, they never looked worried.

Very few teams that have to defend LBJ and Wade for 4+ straight games will be able to maintain a tier-top defensive focus and efficiency on LBJ and Wade for an entire series. This is probably why most team play with supreme confidence in Games 1 and 2 against the Heat and may even steal a game like the Pacers did last year, but by Game 4 and 5, they're just worn down and can't hang with the Heat.

We're not saying that they cannot lose. Many things can go wrong for them, number 1 being injuries. We're just saying that when healthy, they are clearly better than the other teams in East.

[N Ireland Nets]

I'm surprised we haven't matched up better to Miami if I'm honest.

We have our strengths which are Miami's weaknesses. We are meant to be a good rebounding team, we have a real height advantage and we have the superior players at PG & C.

The problem is our point guard isn't playing like a superstar which would cause Miami real problems with a miss match of Williams versus Chalmers. Williams should be destroying Chalmers to the point Miami need to double to get the ball out of his hands.

Problem is when Williams was getting doubled, due to our other members on the floor, outside of Johnson and Lopez, Wallace or Evans are not going to punish double teams when they get the ball. It's really hurting us badly having a lack of options on the offensive side of the ball and you could see past it if our defence was impressive but it's not.

Lopez should be dominant as well, even when he is playing against Bosh, who is obviously a PF playing C. But Lopez has yet to really take over a game for us and torn apart the oppositions bigs.

If Williams played how he should be playing and Lopez played to every bit of his 7ft size, I think we would be a real handful for Miami.

Sadly it hasn't happened thus far though...

[NyCeEvO]

I'm surprised we haven't matched up better to Miami if I'm honest.

We have our strengths which are Miami's weaknesses. We are meant to be a good rebounding team, we have a real height advantage and we have the superior players at PG & C.

The problem is our point guard isn't playing like a superstar which would cause Miami real problems with a miss match of Williams versus Chalmers. Williams should be destroying Chalmers to the point Miami need to double to get the ball out of his hands.

Problem is when Williams was getting doubled, due to our other members on the floor, outside of Johnson and Lopez, Wallace or Evans are not going to punish double teams when they get the ball. It's really hurting us badly having a lack of options on the offensive side of the ball and you could see past it if our defence was impressive but it's not.

Lopez should be dominant as well, even when he is playing against Bosh, who is obviously a PF playing C. But Lopez has yet to really take over a game for us and torn apart the oppositions bigs.

If Williams played how he should be playing and Lopez played to every bit of his 7ft size, I think we would be a real handful for Miami.

Sadly it hasn't happened thus far though...

This is kinda what I was saying a few posts ago.

If D-Will doesn't put on a superstar show and Lopez can't dominate down low, then we're left up to JJ beating Wade and Wallace beating LBJ, which we know will almost never happen.

In addition to the fact that D-Will had the flu, Miami was trapping him pretty often and when you have Reggie Evans (who is a non-option on offense) and Wallace with somewhat limited offense, it becomes 3 1/2 vs. 5 on offense.

We need a personnel change, both head coach and starting PF. Either put Tele or get a PF that can actually do some damage out with Lopez. In the limited time that Blatche and Lopez were out there together (with D-Will making sure Blatche is in the right spots), we did pretty good.

[therealbig3]

I think people are thinking about this wrong...defense is almost never about individual matchups, it's all about how a team plays defense as a collective unit.

Who cares if Deron>Chalmers, or if Lopez>Haslem? That's not what matters, because in addition to Chalmers and Haslem, you have LeBron, Wade, and Bosh giving a ton of help.

And btw, Chalmers is a very good defensive PG, so he's not exactly a bad choice to guard D-Will, and D-Will won't necessarily destroy him. And Wade and LeBron spend plenty of time guarding opposing PGs, especially in crunch time. They're both elite defenders.

Miami is also one of the best teams at defending the PnR, and because Lopez is still pretty soft, guys like Bosh and Haslem can give him a lot of trouble in the post, while LeBron, Wade, and Chalmers are helping out and getting their hand on the ball.

They have an athletic, fast, versatile, and intelligent team, and that's why they're a nightmare matchup for us, and why D-Will and Lopez having the advantage over their counterparts is pretty worthless. You matchup with Miami by defending the PnR and by killing them in the paint and on the glass. With the general scrubiness of Evans and Humphries and the softness of Lopez, we don't match up well with them at all.

[NyCeEvO]

^^Agree with that whole post.

[N Ireland Nets]

Serious question, does anyone know why Lopez struggles to back down his man in the post?

Is it that weird low dribble stance he has so he can't find any power to push backwards with or what?

Please don't just say he's soft...

[PetroNet]

Serious question, does anyone know why Lopez struggles to back down his man in the post?

Is it that weird low dribble stance he has so he can't find any power to push backwards with or what?

Please don't just say he's soft...

he isnt agressive, isnt ultra competitive, and is fine taking jumshots

yea, basically he is just a soft player.

[Paradise]

Serious question, does anyone know why Lopez struggles to back down his man in the post?

Is it that weird low dribble stance he has so he can't find any power to push backwards with or what?

Please don't just say he's soft...

Because he doesn't bang or know how. He doesn't put his shoulder into his defender and attack them in their chest. You can see Blatche can back down his man and finish strong, Lopez cannot. He struggled to post up Gibson, Blatche comes in and just murders Gibson on the post and gets the and 1 to win the game.

Brook not a banger, he's a finesse player like Gasol. Doesn't use his strength which is why he doesn't average more rebounds honestly because he could grab his own misses and finish it strong but he simply does not have that aggressiveness.

Serious question, does anyone know why Lopez struggles to back down his man in the post?

Is it that weird low dribble stance he has so he can't find any power to push backwards with or what?

Please don't just say he's soft...

he isnt agressive, isnt ultra competitive, and is fine taking jumshots

yea, basically he is just a soft player.