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Player Development Wall, Beal, Craw. Vesely, Ariza, Booker-

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Re: Player Development Wall, Beal, Craw. Vesely, Ariza, Book 

Post#61 » by closg00 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:47 pm

LyricalRico wrote:^ I was thinking the same thing. They obviously must see the D-League as having some value because they've been willing to sign players from there. But for some reason, they refuse to believe it could help anybody already on the roster. Have they EVER sent anybody down to the D-League, except maybe PJR? And wasn't Ted supposed to change that?


I honestly believe they aren't sending picks to the D because they don't want to take-on what must be some modest level of expense and resources. Or, Ernie is just to lazy to "manage" this aspect of being a GM, this is the only thing that makes any sense to me.

I wish NBA TV would do a behind the scenes of the D, it's still a mystery to me how this all works when you don't have a single affiliate team of your-own.
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Re: Player Development Wall, Beal, Craw. Vesely, Ariza, Book 

Post#62 » by Nivek » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:02 pm

WizarDynasty wrote:Holiday was picked 17th...we picked Foye and Miller---with absolutely zero value remaining in the franchise from that transaction.
Holiday is statistically one of the top point guards in the league. a young player that was dramatically improved based on gm and his management teams player development program.
Thad Young---12th and Nick young picked 16th-- Wiz have absolutely zero value remaining in the franchise from that transaction
T.Young one the best six men in the league dramatically improved based on gm and his management team's player development program and statistically is one of the best six en in the league.
Not one our young unproven players has ever been considered in the top third of his position.
the only time we have ever had a top player is when we brought that player in from another organization. No player outside of Arenas that we have brought in has ever gotten better after being in Washington and look what happen to arenas due to the Grunfeld management team and player development.


Define "statistically." Holiday has a 107 in my stat system (PPA) where 100 = average and higher is better. Top PGs include Chris Paul (238), Jason Kidd (171), Tony Parker (165), Rajon Rondo (159), Russell Westbrook (149). Others that rate ahead of Holiday include Jose Calderon, Damian Lillard, Mike Conley, Brandon Jennings, Goran Dragic, Jarrett Jack. Frankly, Philly kept the wrong guard when they chose Holiday over Lou Williams. All that said, Holiday is better than anyone in the Wizards backcourt this season.

I do like Thad Young. He's a good player -- Philly's most productive so far this season.
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Re: Player Development Wall, Beal, Craw. Vesely, Ariza, Book 

Post#63 » by WizarDynasty » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:04 pm

Nivek wrote:pancakes point is exactly correct. The Wizards front office has bought into the delusion that they can pick great athletes who lack basketball skills and then watch those athletes become great players when they "develop" basketball skills. The problem with this thinking is that it ignores how humans develop skill at...well...anything.

There is one and only one way to develop a skill, and that's by practicing. Wanna be world class at something, it takes 10,000 hours to reach that level of mastery. For most world class performers, that "mastery" is constructed in childhood and adolescence. This is because a) this is when the brain is most receptive to developing the neural pathways that are expressed as "skill", and b) because this is when humans have time to devote to the obsessive practice of a skill while others are paying the bills.

A guy like Vesely (or Wall or whoever) can, theoretically, develop a skill like a jumper in their early 20s. But, it's harder because the brain's plasticity isn't what it was in the early teens, because there are bad habits already learned that must be unlearned and replaced, and because there's the time issue.

Before picking a guy who's a terrific athlete but lacks skill, it would be important to find out why he hasn't developed the skill to this point. And you'd need to make a determination for whether that player has the work ethic to put in the extra time necessary to build that skill. For a guy like Vesely -- who grew up in a system designed to teach those skills...not having a jumper or even the ability to shoot free throws would be a red flag. So then you might look for some other basketball-related area where he's demonstrated work ethic to see if maybe he'd apply that willingness to work on those deficient skills. Does he have a well-developed body? Is he strong? If not...what has he been working on?

Of course, this kind of conversation is ultimately pointless when it comes to the Wizards. Ted blogged a few weeks ago that Vesely is "fundamentally sound." Which, I'm guessing is something the front office has told him. Which would be indication that the team's "brain trust" literally has no idea what they're seeing when they're scouting.
out the 100,000 thousand post of yours, this is probably one your most brilliant. Should go into the hall of fame for entire site. Beast post! if that even means anything except i guess compliment. 8-) i only disagree with the 10,000 hours number. i say that number should be about 800-1600 hours or 5 hours a day for 160 days. 3-6 months of daily muscle fatigue---sleep and rebuild muscle---awake---fatigue and trained muscle---sleep and rebuild-- each day you sleep your neural paths are strengthened from whatever you practices heavily that day. Problem with Vesely is that he has really really uncoordinated hands...almost as bad as brenda haywood. Anyone can see that vesely was not a basketball player growing and didn't use his hands in whatever sport he did play. he was probably a swimmer as child or something since he doesn't like contact and he has poor hand coordination.
You see it when he attempts a layup, he has almost no fine motor coordination in his hands. I don't see how a credible GM didn't get alarmed by this obvious fault and the airballing free throws. I know he must have shot 20 percent from the free throw line during pre draft time and the guy isn't even a power player, he is a small forward. I like Vesely but all you needed to do was play him one on one against the worst assistant and find out that he can't score against a chair in half court.
Just put a chair out on the court or in the paint and tell vesely to score and he can't. make vesely drive around a chair waiting in the paint and he can't score. Put a chair in front of vesely out on the perimeter and he can' score. Never mind putting a hand in his face. EG and his player development management team (management team includes the head coach) are part of the culture problem here in DC and making decision like vesely or randy foye and miller just so you can keep your job force loyals fans to experience decades of misery trying to support a dysfunctional internal management team outside of newman.
Build your team w/5 shooters using P. Pierce Form deeply bent hips and lower back arch at same time b4 rising into shot. Elbow never pointing to the ground! Good teams have an engine player that shoot volume (2000 full season) at 50 percent.Large Hands
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Re: Player Development Wall, Beal, Craw. Vesely, Ariza, Book 

Post#64 » by WizarDynasty » Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:46 pm

Wall's half court ball handling skills look even worse than before injury and his half court dribbling skills were well below average prior to injury which is very bad news for his future and future of this franchise.
Build your team w/5 shooters using P. Pierce Form deeply bent hips and lower back arch at same time b4 rising into shot. Elbow never pointing to the ground! Good teams have an engine player that shoot volume (2000 full season) at 50 percent.Large Hands
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Re: Player Development Wall, Beal, Craw. Vesely, Ariza, Book 

Post#65 » by dobrojim » Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:46 pm

the 10,000 hour figure is a well grounded scientifically researched number.

for most people, the likelihood of a shortcut is not favorable.
A lot of what we call 'thought' is just mental activity

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Re: Player Development Wall, Beal, Craw. Vesely, Ariza, Book 

Post#66 » by sashae » Sat Feb 2, 2013 1:27 pm

Bump.

After the debacles that were the last two games, an interesting discussion has developed in the trade thread and I thought I'd bring it up here. The concept that players can improve over time isn't a new one, but how is it that the Wizards are so inept at actually investing in their assets? As fans, it's not hard to see some extremely basic deficiencies in the players on the team, deficiencies that an adept organization would improve over time.

Wall: Shooting, change-of-pace, turnovers, ability to play in the half court.
Seraphin: Rebounding, shot selection.
Crawford: Shot selection.
Vesely: Shooting, defending without fouling, shooting, FTs, shooting, shooting.
Singleton: Playing basketball.
Booker: Being taller.

A lot of these deficiencies come from poor player selection, but I refuse to believe a player as successful as Wall was in HS and College can't learn to do /basic/ things like improving his shot and changing his pace to increase spacing. How is it that the team's management can't? Ernie may be inept at scouting, but I can't believe that he can't see the same things, and I also can't believe that he's so craven that he doesn't give a s--- about fixing the problem.

THE HELL IS GOING ON?!??? Having two first round picks effectively fail in Washington is almost too much to bear. Wall isn't an outright failure by any stretch, but not getting an All-Star out of a #1 overall is such a massive organizational failure is hard to bear.
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Re: Player Development Wall, Beal, Craw. Vesely, Ariza, Book 

Post#67 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sat Feb 2, 2013 3:00 pm

sashae wrote:Bump.

After the debacles that were the last two games, an interesting discussion has developed in the trade thread and I thought I'd bring it up here. The concept that players can improve over time isn't a new one, but how is it that the Wizards are so inept at actually investing in their assets? As fans, it's not hard to see some extremely basic deficiencies in the players on the team, deficiencies that an adept organization would improve over time.

Wall: Shooting, change-of-pace, turnovers, ability to play in the half court.
Seraphin: Rebounding, shot selection.
Crawford: Shot selection.
Vesely: Shooting, defending without fouling, shooting, FTs, shooting, shooting.
Singleton: Playing basketball.
Booker: Being taller.

A lot of these deficiencies come from poor player selection, but I refuse to believe a player as successful as Wall was in HS and College can't learn to do /basic/ things like improving his shot and changing his pace to increase spacing. How is it that the team's management can't? Ernie may be inept at scouting, but I can't believe that he can't see the same things, and I also can't believe that he's so craven that he doesn't give a s--- about fixing the problem.

THE HELL IS GOING ON?!??? Having two first round picks effectively fail in Washington is almost too much to bear. Wall isn't an outright failure by any stretch, but not getting an All-Star out of a #1 overall is such a massive organizational failure is hard to bear.


When Javale McGee was here I wondered if Wall was that much sharper of a player. What proficiency has Wall developed over time? How was his game different from season one to season two? How is it different now?

Wall was coached by a PGs coach, Flip Saunders. He's had teammates who knew things about the game, Gilbert Arenas and Kirk Hinrich. Wall has had some time away from the limelight to reflect while injured. How has his game evolved?Maturation and wisdom. John is 22 years old. I wonder about his game expanding and his mindset.

What I do not wonder about HOW JOHN PLAYED WITH BETTER TEAMMATES. When Nene played like he was healthy and when Beal defended well and hit big threes, John sure looked good forcing the tempo and getting to the basket in a hurry. Wall also defended he passing lanes well and he made some weak side rotation blocks. The effort was there when other teammates stepped up.

Part of player development depends on the quality of the teammates around John Wall. I am very hard on Wall, but he was playing better when the other guys were in place and playing well, that glorious two weeks.
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Re: Player Development Wall, Beal, Craw. Vesely, Ariza, Book 

Post#68 » by sashae » Sat Feb 2, 2013 3:40 pm

I don't disagree with that at all, CCJ, but at some point (which I think we're well past) you have to question the player development/coaching of the team moreso than the individual players. We've either got /massive/ issues with selecting players who are unable to develop, or we have no development skills. My feeling is that seeing the improvement (for example) Haywood had when working with Hopla that the fault lays more with the coaching/development staff than purely with selecting players that can't improve (though surely that's part of the problem) otherwise we wouldn't see the continued, common faults between all of the players.

- Poor shot selection.
- Poor rebounding development.
- Poor shot form/production.

All of these things run like a thread throughout many of the players on the squad in the last decade. That seems to indict management and coaching more than anything else.
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