Last second game thread Wizzles vs Grizzles 8PM Friday 2/1

[jivelikenice]

Some movement without the ball might help. Nobody thinks Jan is a good offensive player, but he has ball iq and knows how to not stand around. I'm sure a lot of the guys here have played pick up or organized ball. When ppl stop moving and the game slows to a crawl with no flow, its tough to get any offensive flow going. That's where we're at now. Sometimes less is more, if that less does the little things to open up the floor and game. I'm not saying Jan could do it, but we have 11 wins so why not see if he can?

[jivelikenice]

Jan is frustrating because I think he's better than he showed. His clear issue is confidence. In SL he was willing to shoot and made Js because he knew he didn't have to defer to any vets. It's like he's scared to try with more established guys on the floor with him. His best game came versus OKC, when we were down to 8 healthy guys and he had no choice but to play aggressive and I don't see why he cant play to that level of consistency. It's confidence and him knowing that he's being looked to for something....

[montestewart]

Some movement without the ball might help. Nobody thinks Jan is a good offensive player, but he has ball iq and knows how to not stand around. I'm sure a lot of the guys here have played pick up or organized ball. When ppl stop moving and the game slows to a crawl with no flow, its tough to get any offensive flow going. That's where we're at now. Sometimes less is more, if that less does the little things to open up the floor and game. I'm not saying Jan could do it, but we have 11 wins so why not see if he can?

Sort of agree, because of their record, but no high expectations of success. Jan gets the ball, maybe bails out the handler, has OK passing and court vision, but if no one else is moving, his option is to pass back to handler (who is hopefully back on the move), put the ball on the floor (double teamed or not, it's often a TO), or shoot (Shoot!). If he's not moving toward the basket relatively unmolested, he doesn't have a lot of options. One of many Wizards with some severe and exploitable limitations.

[closg00]

Some movement without the ball might help. Nobody thinks Jan is a good offensive player, but he has ball iq and knows how to not stand around. I'm sure a lot of the guys here have played pick up or organized ball. When ppl stop moving and the game slows to a crawl with no flow, its tough to get any offensive flow going. That's where we're at now. Sometimes less is more, if that less does the little things to open up the floor and game. I'm not saying Jan could do it, but we have 11 wins so why not see if he can?

As someone who considers Jan a bust, Randy has to go to the drawing-board again and get more creative with his rotations and offensive schemes.

[dandridge 10]

Some movement without the ball might help. Nobody thinks Jan is a good offensive player, but he has ball iq and knows how to not stand around. I'm sure a lot of the guys here have played pick up or organized ball. When ppl stop moving and the game slows to a crawl with no flow, its tough to get any offensive flow going. That's where we're at now. Sometimes less is more, if that less does the little things to open up the floor and game. I'm not saying Jan could do it, but we have 11 wins so why not see if he can?

In the minutes Ves has played this season, I have not seen any improvement in offense. I have played basketball for 45 years (both organized and pickup), and agree the ball movement is very important. However, I also know that playing with someone that is not an offensive threat at all just makes it that much harder for the other 4 people on a team to score (especially when the other 4 people are not particularly good on offense either). Its like playing 4 against 5 on offense or worse if you have other below average offensive players.

Jive, I think you are just looking at it as "the grass is greener" on the other side without really considering the talent of the players we have. However, I know I am not going to convice you otherwise and so I'll stop. Besides,I need to get off the computer and spend some time with my son who is now craving my attention. Have a good weekend.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Chicago- 50 first half pts, 36 second half points

Sacramento-57 first half points, 37 second half points

Philly- 28 first Q points, 56 the rest of the game

Memphis- 30 first Q points,46 the rest of the game

Wittman doesn't hold any responsibility? What track record of his is this based on?

I never said Wittman doesn't hold any responsibility. I said the real problem with this team is talent deficiency.

And, I have no idea what the point is that you are trying to make with the above stats.

+1,000,000

[tontoz]

Yes it is clear. We're playing a half court O that runs through Néne and we we can't get stops when we need it. The late game defensive breakdowns have been a constant in Wiz land and hasn't changed. How many times have we watched an ugly 4th quarter unfold, only to have the opponent stretch the lead out to 6 - 8 pts or so in the last couple of minutes? It happens all the time...that isn't a coincidence! The O is a problem too. But you like to put a lot on John while you feed me full season stats of our 4th quarter O even though John missed most of the season. What has been the 4th quarter offensive constant though? Néne and playing inside out....

Late game defensive breakdowns are a figment of your imagination. The Wizards are top 10 in defense and even better in the 4th quarter . It is not debatable.

Opponents have the advantage late in games because when they turn up their defense the Wizards offensive execution goes into the crapper.

[tontoz]

It's laughable that you think a team can't get any shot they want, whenever they want it against us. And I think this new pace has been emphasized since the Utah game. I don't think we were playing this pace to this degree prior to that...

So you think they are playing at a slower pace now that Wall (who led the league in fast break points last season) is back?

Wow I have heard it all now.

[montestewart]

This is kind of interesting:
http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/av ... ter-margin
Wizards scoring differential this season by quarter:

1st: -2.4
2nd: -1.6
3rd: -0.5
4th: -0.1

(may not include latest games, as ESPN has Wizards total scoring differential per game @ -5)

Granted, the 4th quarter figure includes games Wizards scoring spurts when the outcome was all but decided, but whether it's talent deficiency or coaching, it's not a 4th quarter problem. It's just a problem.

[jivelikenice]

When Wall was a backup, we played slower as a first unit and faster with the second unit. Now that Wall is starting, we're still slow the with first unit and Price can't play fast with the 2s. Randy, based on his post game comments wants an even further emphasis on playing inside out and going through the bigs.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Randy gets his teams to play hard. If you look at it in betting terms, the Wizards are the best covering team in the NBA. I believe they had covered 10 straight games until Beal sat out so you know they are at least playing teams closely. He's not an x's and o's genius but I can't blame him for coaching guys that can't play. That's EG's fault for assembling this team and to be honest, if they were healthy at the start, they wouldn't be nearly this bad.

In my mind Randy is a good coach. Unfortunately, EG has assembled the team in a way 30-somethings have to play. The main 30-something isn't healthy.

Vesely can actually help the offense if Randy were to find time for him to be on the court in front of Booker or Seraphin, or if Wittman rested Nene. That is counterintuitive, but stats bear this out this season.

Thru 404 minutes the Wizard offense is actually +7.4 points better per 100 possessions with Jan in the lineup.

http://www.82games.com/1213/12WAS14.HTM

[tontoz]

Randy gets his teams to play hard. If you look at it in betting terms, the Wizards are the best covering team in the NBA. I believe they had covered 10 straight games until Beal sat out so you know they are at least playing teams closely. He's not an x's and o's genius but I can't blame him for coaching guys that can't play. That's EG's fault for assembling this team and to be honest, if they were healthy at the start, they wouldn't be nearly this bad.

In my mind Randy is a good coach. Unfortunately, EG has assembled the team in a way 30-somethings have to play. The main 30-something isn't healthy.

Vesely can actually help the offense if Randy were to find time for him to be on the court in front of Booker or Seraphin, or if Wittman rested Nene. That is counterintuitive, but stats bear this out this season.

Thru 404 minutes the Wizard offense is actually +7.4 points better per 100 possessions with Jan in the lineup.

http://www.82games.com/1213/12WAS14.HTM

Are you sure you want to go down that road? Have you looked at McGee's +/- this year?

[jivelikenice]

Chicago- 50 first half pts, 36 second half points

Sacramento-57 first half points, 37 second half points

Philly- 28 first Q points, 56 the rest of the game

Memphis- 30 first Q points,46 the rest of the game

Wittman doesn't hold any responsibility? What track record of his is this based on?

I never said Wittman doesn't hold any responsibility. I said the real problem with this team is talent deficiency.

And, I have no idea what the point is that you are trying to make with the above stats.

My point is we played good offense early in games recently. We follow that up with absolutely anemic offense in the second half. Games naturally tighten up, but these are extreme swings. Is it luck to start games or are coaches adjusting, and is Randy doing a poor job of making his own adjustments. I think it's not only talent, but a combination.

The team is definitely talent deficient. I don't know who doesn't know or acknowledge that. The owner has come out and said as much. But I don't think Randy is doing the best he cold with this group. And part of my argument is to try something different just for the sake of trying it. Frankly why not at this point? Maybe it sparks John or Jordan....

[hands11]

I love how on a night when John hit three Js, its still about his J. Lets ignore the fact that Randy is trying to play mid 90's Knicks basketball. Néne, Okafor, and Seraphin scored 32 pts on 33 shots. The entire offense is running through them. There's no weak side movement and the ball is stopping in the post...but let's keep blaming John. I'm sure any competent coach would make a 30 yr old center who can't jump or run the focal point of the rebuilding effort. Makes all the sense in the world. It's almost comical too see all the bodies on D and from our front court who are clogging things up. It's like bumper cars in the post

I can only hope this is part of an effort to showcase Néne for a trade...although what team would want him based on what they've seen??

Nene actually found his mid range last night and he looked pretty good.

Actually, like I said before, the team look energized and the ball moved pretty well. Crawford was shaking off some rust. He missed a few drives and then he got it going and made a few. At least he was taking it more aggressive to the basket. That how you get more then 3 FTA in a game.

Seems Randy is very fixated on running a Spurs style half court offense regardless of who he has out there. This is where he is blowing it. And now he is playing the price for icing Crawford. Now that Beal is injured the team needs more points. They need a primary scorer but Randy has so minimized Crawford important and role that he doesn't have that to turn to now.

I have posted more balanced line up several times. Price should be paired with Nene and they can run that half court offense from there. Wall should lead a more up tempo freelance offense with Crawford. They should just spread the floor and let Wall and Crawford attack the rim endlessly. Both can drives, pass and make FTs. Have Okafor in there to set picks and grab rebounds. You don't need some complicated system with those two. They are the offense. Play them with Ves to run and Trevor A to get turnover to start the break.

Randy is making this way to difficult. Coach to your players strengths and balance the line ups to match those strengths.

Wall/Price
Crawford/Temple
Trevor A/Webster
Ves/Kevin/Booker
Okafor/Nene

or

Wall/Price/Temple
Crawford/Webster/Temple
Trevor A/Singleton
Ves/Kevin/Booker
Okafor/Nene


This is what he should be doing. Wall and Crawford dominate the ball with the first group. Trevor A, Ves and Oak set picks. Trevor defends and steals. Hit a 3 ball here and there. Ves get opps and transition points. Keeps the ball in play. And gets a chance to grow. On days you need more muscle then Ves, you put in Booker.

Second group has more half court structure. They are more post dominate. Webster hits the corner 3 after they feed the post. Price hits some 3s and mid. He is good at running the half court offense. This group won't push it up as much so Nene can keep up. Play Webster at SG or SF depending on match up then us Temple or Singleton depending on which you do.

Randy needs a plan more then I don't want Crawford starting and I want every line up I have out there to play inside out passing basketball.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Randy gets his teams to play hard. If you look at it in betting terms, the Wizards are the best covering team in the NBA. I believe they had covered 10 straight games until Beal sat out so you know they are at least playing teams closely. He's not an x's and o's genius but I can't blame him for coaching guys that can't play. That's EG's fault for assembling this team and to be honest, if they were healthy at the start, they wouldn't be nearly this bad.

In my mind Randy is a good coach. Unfortunately, EG has assembled the team in a way 30-somethings have to play. The main 30-something isn't healthy.

Vesely can actually help the offense if Randy were to find time for him to be on the court in front of Booker or Seraphin, or if Wittman rested Nene. That is counterintuitive, but stats bear this out this season.

Thru 404 minutes the Wizard offense is actually +7.4 points better per 100 possessions with Jan in the lineup.

http://www.82games.com/1213/12WAS14.HTM

Are you sure you want to go down that road? Have you looked at McGee's +/- this year?

Yes. McGee is replacing Koufas and Faried--he's going to be net negative because they're better.

I looked at Jan's last season, and it was the opposite--he helped the defense, not the offense.

The time Jan helped MOST was at the end of last season when the Wizards had him and Seraphin starting over a 15-game period. Nene played very well and James Singleton did a great job filling in as a stretch 4. Recall Vesely's last 10 games last season. All starts with big minutes played. The Wizards went 8-2.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... elog/2012/



What the Wizards SHOULD BE DOING is to try and put Wall, Seraphin, Vesely, and Beal on the court with a stretch four. Jan effectively plays SF. Just like McGee he's a player without a true position. What Vesely does is catch and finish. He has a high passing IQ. He runs very, very well. However, like a Tebow in football or with McGee, you have to change RADICALLY from what normal teams do to accommodate strange-skilled players like Jan and Javale.

Play Seraphin with Vesely because that is the one guy Kevin will pass to consistently and vice versa. Play them both with a shooter, preferably a little bigger player than Webster. If not of the presence of Okafor and Nene, i would say start them with Webster or Ariza and just tank.

Vesely IMO should be playing over Booker because believe it or not, Vesely would be valued by other teams more.

[jivelikenice]

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2013/2/2/ ... tman-coach

[hands11]

I would do what Nate suggested. I would start Wall, Beal, Webster, Okafor...the 4 is an issue. I know this sounds crazy, but I'd think about starting Jan. He stinks, but he does run the floor, hes willing to pass, and he moves without the ball....I think Nate suggested Seraphin, and that could be an option, but his passing and off ball movement is horrible and he just loves his own shot too much. Néne should come in off the bench to anchor the second unit. Give him 10 minutes a half where the offense runs through him. With him going against backup bigs, he might actually get some calls. Minimize the time he shares the floor with Wall and Beal, because they're basically being wasted out there with him.

I'd also give Singleton another shot at the 4. He showed some promise at first before regressing. To that point, no matter how badly Singleton played, there's no way he's earned being in the doghouse to the extent he is now. It's ridiculous.

Actually I was the one that suggested those things. Nate was agreeing and expanding on the idea.

[tontoz]

My point is we played good offense early in games recently. We follow that up with absolutely anemic offense in the second half. Games naturally tighten up, but these are extreme swings.

First you say the late game breakdowns were because of the defense, now you say it is the offense. Did you happen to have waffles for breakfast today?

[hands11]

What Wittman is doing is similar to what a lot do D league coaches got accuses of early on. Instead of developing young players, they relied on vets to boost their Win/loss record thinking this was their shot. Randy seems to have fallen under the same trap.

So you think he is going to sit Okariza/Nene even though the team is paying them huge money? EG put this team in win now mode by trading for Nene/Okariza. The quickest way for Randy to get fired is to bench them in favor of young guys who suck.

That is not what they did. They added them to add vets to stabilize the team and help develop the younger players and to change the locker room culture. They were not brought in to "win now". They were brought to win more.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I would do what Nate suggested. I would start Wall, Beal, Webster, Okafor...the 4 is an issue. I know this sounds crazy, but I'd think about starting Jan. He stinks, but he does run the floor, hes willing to pass, and he moves without the ball....I think Nate suggested Seraphin, and that could be an option, but his passing and off ball movement is horrible and he just loves his own shot too much. Néne should come in off the bench to anchor the second unit. Give him 10 minutes a half where the offense runs through him. With him going against backup bigs, he might actually get some calls. Minimize the time he shares the floor with Wall and Beal, because they're basically being wasted out there with him.

I'd also give Singleton another shot at the 4. He showed some promise at first before regressing. To that point, no matter how badly Singleton played, there's no way he's earned being in the doghouse to the extent he is now. It's ridiculous.

Actually I was the one that suggested those things. Nate was agreeing and expanding on the idea.

Radical idea: Tank with Wall, Beal, Vesely, Singleton, and Seraphin just like Ernie never made moves to acquire any veteran leadership at all. Trade Okafor to a winning situation for picks. Get Ariza back on the Lakers or another team. Get Nene or Okafor to teams like Miami, OKC, Boston, or New Jersey. Try to get picks from Phoenix.

Play the young guys and stink all over again, but amass picks. Play Singleton to trade him. At this point what good is he doing on the bench?