2013 Draft

[dr0welf]

Can we get this sticky'd so we can discuss players in the upcoming draft?

Doug McDermott with Creighton looked good again today against Bradley. 25 points in 30 minutes, 7 boards, and 3 assists. I would like him along with Trey Burkes to get our starting line up.
Burkes
Hayward
McDermott
Kanter
Favors

Would be a good future rotation.

[RyanStorm]

All I know based off our current system, is that we need new PG's, and Trey Burke seems to be everyones picks, I don't know if being on Michigan(1), has anything to do with that, I just know he is a great point guard, who is likely to become a big player in the NBA.

McDerrmott is a nice pick. Hayward is kind of that hybrid, but having someone to replace Marvin would be awesome. I personally would love to find another Hayward. I will have to look into McDerrmott, I though Jazz would go for two PG's or one and SG.

[dr0welf]

McDermott would be a 3 or 4 hybrid. Reminds me a lot of Matt Harpring when he came out, has a great shot and can hit off curls and such.

[Neon Black]

I prefer white players.

[Inigo Montoya]

if we put point guards aside for a minute, i really like dario saric. i'm down with McDermott too though.

[reapaman]

One hayward is enough, we don't need two. Hayward does well defending straight jumpshooters like kobe but most of the time he's guarding guys who are driving to the basket and/or coming of screens for a shot and he gets destroyed constantly. Mcdermott is worse than Hayward is at that and he may not even be able to guard the straight jumpshooters either. Little interest in this guy. I guess if we can get him in the mid to late 2nd round then mabey.

Burkes may go too high for us but I can see mccoullum dropping due to his injury which is who I want anyway.

[Inigo Montoya]

i don't see McDermott as a hayward type player. i think he's more of a harpring (on offense at least). i don't want him as a mid 1st round pick, but if we use our second 1st round pick on him or a 2nd round pick i'll certainly be ok with that, though i would much rather we got Nate Wolters.

as for mccoullum, i don't think his injury will cause him to drop much as long as he shows he's over it in the combine and pre draft workouts. he's got a large body of work to judge him on as a senior, so teams will know what they are getting. i wouldn't mind if we got him, but i don't know if he fits the jazz style of play and we may have another burks situation.

as for trey burke - i'm not sold on him, but again, i won't complain if we got him. i won't complain on any PG we'll take, that's how desperate we are to get one and how much this position sucks with this current team.

[pickIBL]

Don't let Doug McDermott fool you. He is playing in the MVC. It is an up and coming conference but if he was playing a hard conference schedule you'd really see his lack of athleticism. He is a PF... no chance at all at defending wings... he'd get absolutely tourched. He'll also get knocked around inside. Undersized 4 man, lacks athleticism even for the 4, and has shorter arms. This guy could be a speciality role player off the bench @ best. Only in a draft like this does he have a shot at the 1st round... although I see way more in him than I ever saw in Adam Morrison.

I'd be targeting Marcus Smart & CJ McCollum. It is possible that one of them could fall.. or you might have to trade up. Michael Carter Williams is worth talking about as well. Burke could be available when you draft and is definitely worth the discussion. I like the all around play of Smart the best. Carter-Williams has great length and vision... but even if you've never seen him one look at the stat sheet shows where he needs to improve.

CJ I think can be a pass first guy... he just has to score because of the team he plays on so you wont see the 5 or 6 assists per game out of him (before the injury) that you'd like to see.

You really have to temper your expectations next year if you are going with a rookie PG. But if Millsap and Jefferson are gone you might as well.

If that's the case my strategy would be to have Tinsley around next year, draft that PG, and I'd also bring in Teodosic as he's a good fit for the Jazz. Tinsley is your insurance policy to go along with two nice prospects.

[Inigo Montoya]

well, it is a weak draft, so getting a specialty role player at the tail end of the first round or the 2nd round is not bad. we got burks at 12 and by now he hasn't been (allowed to be) more than a spot minutes\specialty guy.

McDermott is very efficient offensive player, and the guy can shoot. i don't see him defending most wings except here and there, on artest - type players and tweeners like McDermott himself.

looking at the PGs available and the the general draft order (as in who will draft before the jazz, and not the exact specific draft order\position of the teams), i think there is a good chance that either smart, MCW or McCollum will be there when the jazz will get their first turn to pick, with trey burke still available as well as a consolation prize if we somehow miss out on those three guys. the abundance of good PGs in the NBA might play in the jazz's favor this draft. but of course a lot could change and it is way too early.

I'd rather we took smart. he is only 18, while McCollum and MCW are 21, and burke is 20 (and again, i'm not sold on him). MCW is not a good shooter from anywhere, and he turns the ball over a lot. he reminds me of a more athletic version of greivis vasquez (who i really like). i wouldn't be opposed to drafting a PG in the first round and Wolters in the second round and let them push each other in practice. i'm on board with keeping tinsley though, but watson needs to go. teodosic is making good money in europe and i don't see the jazz cough up the dough to get him.

[pickIBL]

Teodosic and Tomic are doing well financially and on the court this year. If Millsap/Jefferson are in the plans then I don't see them ponying up for them you are correct. But just looking at things from more of an outsider perspective ponying up big bucks to Jefferson/Millsap might be a big mistake with the young talent you do have under these new CBA rules.

My thoughts are if you aren't dolling out those big dollar contracts to keep your current vets... then Teodosic & Tomic (including his buyout) are pretty damn reasonable. Teodosic and Tomic are both 25. Dejuan Blair would make a ton of sense for the Jazz and he'd cost a lot less too. That's a pretty young group we are talking about... and that leaves the Jazz with major cap flexibility.

We agree on Marcus Smart so I'll leave it at that. Smart/Teodosic/Tinsley would be worth tuning in for on league pass for me. You can have Blair, Tomic, and Teodosic for what Jefferson or Millsap will be asking in free agency. Probably quite a bit less.

[Inigo Montoya]

Teodosic and Tomic are doing well financially and on the court this year. If Millsap/Jefferson are in the plans then I don't see them ponying up for them you are correct. But just looking at things from more of an outsider perspective ponying up big bucks to Jefferson/Millsap might be a big mistake with the young talent you do have under these new CBA rules.

My thoughts are if you aren't dolling out those big dollar contracts to keep your current vets... then Teodosic & Tomic (including his buyout) are pretty damn reasonable. Teodosic and Tomic are both 25. Dejuan Blair would make a ton of sense for the Jazz and he'd cost a lot less too. That's a pretty young group we are talking about... and that leaves the Jazz with major cap flexibility.

We agree on Marcus Smart so I'll leave it at that. Smart/Teodosic/Tinsley would be worth tuning in for on league pass for me. You can have Blair, Tomic, and Teodosic for what Jefferson or Millsap will be asking in free agency. Probably quite a bit less.

i agree with most of this^^^. but i'm over tomic at this point. he's no longer a potential, he is what he is at this point, and i don't see his game translating all that well to the NBA. he'll get pushed around with his lanky frame of his. he's no more than a rotation player and a 3rd big at best. i don't see him being all that effective in the NBA if he'll ever get here.

as for blair, i'm hesitant. he's ok and all - i won't start writing about his lack of size and shortcomings. he's serviceable, but i think there is a lesson to be learned from what happend with brandon roy. i think the spurs maximized blair's value and got the good years out of him, but i fear there will be a decline pretty soon and health issues will follow soon as well, unfortunately.

i do think that the jazz will keep either millsap or jefferson though, so 4th big (assuming kanter will be the 3rd) is not something i'm stressing about. but either way, favors and hayward are due an extension or they will be RFA's so either way our cap room will be diminished to a degree with or without millsap and or big al.

[pickIBL]

Blair has had some pretty nice games with the Spurs this season when given some PT. It all comes down to the contract. Roy and Blair are very different players but health yes is a big issue with Blair going forward. I am not suggesting you overpay.

You are getting over Tomic but it is this season for me that I finally see why several NBA teams would be willing to pay a million dollar buyout to get him. Best young center in Europe.

[Inigo Montoya]

which NBA team will be willing to pay a 1M dollar buyout for him?

when we drafted him i could understand why, since i saw him play in europe a lot at the time and i knew of him well before the draft. but a lot of what was to like about him involved his potential growth. now he's not that young anymore in basketball terms and has pretty much evolved into what he is going to be, and therefore now he is less enticing since the "potential" tag is pretty much lifted and his margin of improvement from this point is significantly smaller. i'd really wish we could have gotten him right after we drafted him so he could have been molded by the jazz as it pertains both to his game and his physical development.

[pickIBL]

which NBA team will be willing to pay a 1M dollar buyout for him?.

He went from 215lbs to 260lbs and from a huge project to the 2nd best overall center in Europe behind Bourousis. Should Splitter not be back I would not at all be surprised if Tomic, Krstic, or Bourousis ended up on their roster. Bourousis would be a Spur right now if he had not been asking for MLE money in the past. So yea the Spurs would spend a million on him. I wish the Nuggets would ship McGee for Garnett. Then acquire the rights to Tomic over the summer and buy him out. Then we'd have both Koufos and Tomic on great contracts.

[Inigo Montoya]

i think krstic should never have left, he is an NBA player. although he is not a great defender, i think OKC definitely miss him as an offensive option as a pick and pop guy.

as for Bourousis - he kind of illustrates the point of why tomic is unlikely to get to the NBA. he is making a lot of money in europe, and the buyout will have to cut into his salary or count against the cap which wouldn't make it worth his while to come to the NBA from a financial perspective, and at that point the team who wants him would have to spend more money than either of these players are worth. there is no reason for Bourousis to not ask for MLE money since he makes close to that amount under better tax conditions.

and with all due respect to tomic's added weight, his 260lbs are spread on a 7'2 guy who still gets pushed around (though he is not soft). paul millsap with his 6'8 in shoes weighs 253lbs, just to get some perspective.

regarding mcgee, well... i don't know what the nuggets were thinking, giving him 11M per year and then play him 20 minutes off the bench, not being able to beat a 3M limited (but decent) koufos. i'm guessing you're not thrilled about it either.

[pickIBL]

i think krstic should never have left, he is an NBA player. although he is not a great defender, i think OKC definitely miss him as an offensive option as a pick and pop guy.

as for Bourousis - he kind of illustrates the point of why tomic is unlikely to get to the NBA. he is making a lot of money in europe, and the buyout will have to cut into his salary or count against the cap which wouldn't make it worth his while to come to the NBA from a financial perspective, and at that point the team who wants him would have to spend more money than either of these players are worth. there is no reason for Bourousis to not ask for MLE money since he makes close to that amount under better tax conditions.

and with all due respect to tomic's added weight, his 260lbs are spread on a 7'2 guy who still gets pushed around (though he is not soft). paul millsap with his 6'8 in shoes weighs 253lbs, just to get some perspective.

regarding mcgee, well... i don't know what the nuggets were thinking, giving him 11M per year and then play him 20 minutes off the bench, not being able to beat a 3M limited (but decent) koufos. i'm guessing you're not thrilled about it either.

ioannis bourousis wasn't getting that kinda money in Europe. There was just tons of hype around him at the time and his people overestimated his value. He's worth and I suspect he'd take Koufos type money. And that'd be a great value for the Spurs.

Sure Tomic isn't a beast but he is skilled at 7'2 and added weight to the frame. He's coordinated, high IQ, soft hands, jumper, etc. Pretty rare. Yep 1/2 the buyout would go against the cap on him. And for what decent big men get paid in the NBA... totally worth it.

As for McGee.... he comes off the bench because he plays best with Andre Miller. If Miller started he'd start. Should he probably get 7 or 8 extra minutes a night... yea. His Per is good and he's got trade value though. Not a horrible contract by the Nuggets... but I probably wouldn't have given it to him.

[SoCalJazzFan]

I'm going to put a similar link to what I did in another post so as to easily compare stats of the top PGs (I listed my top 6 right now. The top 4 are pretty unanimous, the others can be argued):

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compar ... enzo-brown

If the Jazz could get Smart, I would be thrilled as he plays intense on both ends of the court, is a great size, very athletic, and a decent shooter and passer. Think a bigger, better version of Eric Bledsoe. He'll probably be a top 10, if not top 5, pick so the odds are against the Jazz on this guy (who could we trade with in order to get this guy??).

Carter-Williams is a pass first guy in a shooting guard's body. His shooting in his limited 10 mins per game last year was pretty average (he was stuck on a bench behind a very talented set of gaurds at Syracuse last year), but has been shooting horribly this year. However, he has a knack for assists and looks to be a good defender too, with many steals a game, probably due to his length (although he did get caught shoplifting which puts his character in question).

Burke appears to be the best pure point guard of the bunch. Undersized, but very good at getting dimes and shoots well too, and if falls to the Jazz in the high teens would be a great pick up from what I have seen and read.

I have concerns about McCollum after watching a scouting video of him. First half of the video, I thought this guy is Damian Lillard all over again. Then I was disabused of this thought as I watched the second half of the video. He is probably a slightly taller version of Jennings (a score first PG with limitations).

I don't know too much about Canaan, Brown, and put these guys in as the Texas PG is kind of dropping off the radar. Did I miss anyone?

[SoCalJazzFan]

Very brief analysis of teams projected to draft before Jazz and their need for PG:

1. Charlotte- Kemba Walker, Sessions next year
2. Wizards- Wall
3. Cavs- Irving
4.* Magic- Nelson on contract for 1-2 more years, but could pull trigger on PG
5.* Hornets- Vazquez- could definitely pull trigger on PG, especially since have forward and wing rookies.
6. Suns- Dragic/Marshall
7. OKC- Westbrook/Jackson
8.* Kings- have a lot of mediocre PGs, could pull trigger.
9. Detroit- Knight, possible resign Calderon
10. Wolves- Rubio/JJ Barea
11. 76ers- Holiday
12.* Dallas-resign Collison??
repeat teams
15. Boston- Rondo/Terry
16. Hawks- sign Teague?
17. Jazz

I think that Utah needs to pull a trade if they want Smart or C-W (and perhaps Burke if his stock rises). What works in Utah's favor is that there are several 7 footers in this year's draft and GMs love to roll the dice on those.

[reapaman]

PG is a big need but I still wouldn't ignore some of the other guys because theres some talent in this draft that is getting under appreciated. Here my top 10 guys based on guys who will likely be avalible by the time we draft for both picks.

1) Otto Porter (This guy has tons of potential, already has good skill and has stepped up when his team needed him. He should be really good)
2) Cj Mccollum (Could be a solid all around pg or an annoying chucker, I'ma go with the former)
3) Trey Burkes (He could be Jennings or Holiday, but I'm gonna hope he's more holiday)
4) Sergey Karasev (Could be a very nice all around player after he gets adjusted to the NBA)
5) Solomon Hill (A solid glue guy that could be a starter for a decade, but he;s not fancy and won't wow you)
6) Jamaal Franklin (Has all the talent to be a really good sg but needs to play smarter overall and harder on defense)
7) Andre Roberson (Looks like a very good defender and could be a decent scoring option)
8) Gorgui Dieng (A legit defender and shot blocker but is 23 y/o and raw offensively)
9) Kelly Olynyk (I don't know about this guy yet but looks like a low risk utility guy)
10) Phil Pressey/Russ Smith/Lorenzo Brown (Lots of boardeline first round pg avaliable, still not sure on any of them yet but there could be something there with at least one of em)

[Inigo Montoya]

I don't know too much about Canaan, Brown, and put these guys in as the Texas PG is kind of dropping off the radar. Did I miss anyone?

i'd rate nate wolters higher than canaan, brown and kabongo, but that's just me. you may want to add phil pressey and ray mccollum.

trey burke is no jrue holliday - holliday is a way bigger guard and more of an all around player.

olynik reminds me of a taller and less athletic (if even possible) version of luis scola.