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2/4 LA Clippers @ Wizards 7PM CSN.....

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Re: 2/4 LA Clippers @ Wizards 7PM CSN..... 

Post#61 » by jivelikenice » Tue Feb 5, 2013 5:05 am

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
Earth2Ted wrote:Wall probably not going to be happy with his own performance, but good to see him step up the last 2-3 minutes - hits a mid range J, gets a steal, a dunk, skip pass to Webster for a corner 3, and a dish to Nene to draw a foul inside.

I think he will be fine as he gets in game shape- I think some of his out of control play is him trying to fight his way through fatigue. I'm still relieved he wasn't hurt worse when he bumped his shoulder in Memphis.


I thought Wall was the key player in the fourth quarter. After DeAndre Jordan pinned his dunk attempt, Wall ran back on defense and immediately came up with a key steal. After that, Wall hit a jumper that made the score 89-81. The next series, off Ariza's steal, Wall had a dunk that put them up 10 and pretty much sealed the game.

John didn't play great all game but he was good when it counted. I liked his effort a lot.


Wall typically goes in a shell when his shot isn't dropping or he has some bad luck. He kept plugging away today, hit a long J, and got a key steal and assist. Nice to see him stay mentally tough out there.
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Re: 2/4 LA Clippers @ Wizards 7PM CSN..... 

Post#62 » by dangermouse » Tue Feb 5, 2013 6:49 am

I thought the best part of Wall's display today was 8 assists to 2 to's in 32 minutes.

Pretty good for a shoot-first point guard amirite?

Just goes to show that he can get guys open looks, its just up to them to drain the shot, which was happening in the first half.
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Re: 2/4 LA Clippers @ Wizards 7PM CSN..... 

Post#63 » by Kanyewest » Tue Feb 5, 2013 8:28 am

jivelikenice wrote:Crawford really in the doghouse.....I wouldn't mind dealing him, but Randy is killing his value...


Not sure Crawford has much trade value now anyways.
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Re: 2/4 LA Clippers @ Wizards 7PM CSN..... 

Post#64 » by closg00 » Tue Feb 5, 2013 12:12 pm

tontoz wrote:With Beal out Crawford gets only 5 minutes, Temple 37. There must be something going on in the locker room for Crawford to be that far in the doghouse.


Crawford deservedly got yanked after playing street-ball....basically not passing and stupidly launching long jumpers early in the shot clock. Trade this clown.
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Re: 2/4 LA Clippers @ Wizards 7PM CSN..... 

Post#65 » by BruceO » Tue Feb 5, 2013 12:51 pm

there was a report weeks ago that crawford attracted a lot of interest. i'm sure any trade we have will involve him and would not be surprised if he's been sat as caution so he doesn't get injured prior. Then again he could verry well just suck
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Re: 2/4 LA Clippers @ Wizards 7PM CSN..... 

Post#66 » by montestewart » Tue Feb 5, 2013 1:06 pm

BruceO wrote:there was a report weeks ago that crawford attracted a lot of interest. i'm sure any trade we have will involve him and would not be surprised if he's been sat as caution so he doesn't get injured prior. Then again he could verry well just suck

Someone should create a decision making flow chart for EG, tracking his thought process when considering trades, for Vesely, Crawford, etc., with every flow ending in "don't trade"
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Re: 2/4 LA Clippers @ Wizards 7PM CSN..... 

Post#67 » by Nivek » Tue Feb 5, 2013 2:50 pm

dangermouse wrote:I thought the best part of Wall's display today was 8 assists to 2 to's in 32 minutes.

Pretty good for a shoot-first point guard amirite?

Just goes to show that he can get guys open looks, its just up to them to drain the shot, which was happening in the first half.


From the same box score, there's ample evidence to support the notion of Wall being a shoot-first PG. His 18 FGA were 6 more than any teammate. The only player in the game who took more shots was Jamal Crawford.
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Re: 2/4 LA Clippers @ Wizards 7PM CSN..... 

Post#68 » by tontoz » Tue Feb 5, 2013 3:03 pm

Nivek wrote:
dangermouse wrote:I thought the best part of Wall's display today was 8 assists to 2 to's in 32 minutes.

Pretty good for a shoot-first point guard amirite?

Just goes to show that he can get guys open looks, its just up to them to drain the shot, which was happening in the first half.


From the same box score, there's ample evidence to support the notion of Wall being a shoot-first PG. His 18 FGA were 6 more than any teammate. The only player in the game who took more shots was Jamal Crawford.



And he only scored 13 points on those 18 shots. Maybe others weren't discouraged by his play last night but i definitely was.
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Re: 2/4 LA Clippers @ Wizards 7PM CSN..... 

Post#69 » by hands11 » Tue Feb 5, 2013 3:06 pm

Interesting.

After 4 loses no one even cares that they won.

It was nice to see a win but I still saw lots that I didn't care for from a coaching stand point.

Still to many plays to Nene where he is feed in the post. He converted a few more this time but its still just an ugly play. I cringe every time I see him with the ball on the block at the beginning of the offense. Everyone just stops moving and he holds it to long. I did like that they ran a few move pick and rolls to him. Those always look good. He got called for a charge on one that wasn't a charge which kind of sucked. He was clearly undercut.

John took some stupid jump shots that are just not his shot. Leaning baseline? No. When he is set and he doesn't shoot on the way down, he does well tho. How can an NBA PG have so little feel for shooting?

I really liked the game Trevor A played but there is one thing I see him do that he needs to eliminate and that is when he gets an offensive rebound, he should never shoot it from rang quickly. Someone need to instruct him to always pass that rebound. Those never go in for him. Again, when he has his feet set he seems to shoot well. Trevor A is actually a legit piece. His defense and length are unique.

Okafor is still a rebounding machine. I can't see why they would move him until someone shows they can do what he does or they trade him for someone that does. He is looking like a great pick up. Okafor almost always plays his game and takes shots from one of a few places. He knows his game maybe better then any other player on the team.

Kevin S. He needs to stop shooting from range when fading backward. It never goes in. It's always short. Someone needs to tell him to never shoot that shot again. If he does, he is coming out of the game.

So what I see is lack a discipline if these things have been pointed out. If not, it is a lack of coaching to not identify them. It up to the coaching to review film with these players and show them what works well for them and what doesn't so they stop doing the things that don't work well. That is how a team becomes more efficient.

Every play should know where their spots are and what they need to do mechanically to maximize those attempts.

As for Temple. Nice to see him have a nice game. Not sure what his future is with the team but after being given 3 starts, it was nice to see him finally produce. I guess they are auditioning him as a back up SG. If so, he needs to come right back and do it again. Then again. And again.

As for Crawford. Please just trade him already. It's painful to watch what they do with him. I hope he gets traded to a team that will use him as a back up PG/SG where he can be a valued member of a team. He clearly is not that here.
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Re: 2/4 LA Clippers @ Wizards 7PM CSN..... 

Post#70 » by Zonkerbl » Tue Feb 5, 2013 3:10 pm

Chris Singleton's +- was -10...
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Re: 2/4 LA Clippers @ Wizards 7PM CSN..... 

Post#71 » by TheKingOfVa360 » Tue Feb 5, 2013 3:47 pm

Decent win, Singleton has been playing pretty good since he got out the doghouse. I wonder what is the time table for Beal returning
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Re: 2/4 LA Clippers @ Wizards 7PM CSN..... 

Post#72 » by Severn Hoos » Tue Feb 5, 2013 4:10 pm

Nivek wrote:
dangermouse wrote:I thought the best part of Wall's display today was 8 assists to 2 to's in 32 minutes.

Pretty good for a shoot-first point guard amirite?

Just goes to show that he can get guys open looks, its just up to them to drain the shot, which was happening in the first half.


From the same box score, there's ample evidence to support the notion of Wall being a shoot-first PG. His 18 FGA were 6 more than any teammate. The only player in the game who took more shots was Jamal Crawford.


I don't mind a shoot-first PG, as long as he's primarily a make-first PG also.
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Re: 2/4 LA Clippers @ Wizards 7PM CSN..... 

Post#73 » by Ruzious » Tue Feb 5, 2013 5:48 pm

It really wasn't a decent win. LAC was here from the West Coast playing without it's 2 all-stars. Wall simply can't be having terrible shooting games like this in his 3rd year. There's simply no player development in this organization, and there's no accountability within the organization for this blatant failure.
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Re: 2/4 LA Clippers @ Wizards 7PM CSN..... 

Post#74 » by go'stags » Tue Feb 5, 2013 5:56 pm

A little confused, Ruz. 3rd year guards aren't allowed to have a single bad shooting game?

FWIW (not much) I didn't think he played very well offensively, but loved how he competed and made an impact on the defensive end.
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Re: 2/4 LA Clippers @ Wizards 7PM CSN..... 

Post#75 » by Dat2U » Tue Feb 5, 2013 6:08 pm

Wall didn't play well but I'm tired of every damn game being a referendum on whether he's a bust or not. I really don't think this is all about him but It's becoming painfully obvious that he may not develop while he's a Washington Wizard. Ruz is right, there's been absolutely no development among any of it's young players. In fact, we've seen more regression than development.

This franchise may be winning a few more games now, but it's on the backs of an old and outdated frontline that doesn't match our young core along with contributions from minimum free agents like Webster & Price and even last night, a career NBDL'er in Garrett Temple. While it may make Ernie & Ted feel better about the product they've put on the floor, these wins are simply window dressing for the rotten dying core that lies underneath.

I'm starting to think we've only seen the beginning of how bad this novel is going to be. If Ted is really as out of touch as his Ted's Take columns and interviews indicate he is, we may be looking at years of misery ahead.
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Re: 2/4 LA Clippers @ Wizards 7PM CSN..... 

Post#76 » by Ruzious » Tue Feb 5, 2013 6:20 pm

go'stags wrote:A little confused, Ruz. 3rd year guards aren't allowed to have a single bad shooting game?

FWIW (not much) I didn't think he played very well offensively, but loved how he competed and made an impact on the defensive end.

I'd say you're a lot confused if you think he's had just a single bad shooting game.
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Re: 2/4 LA Clippers @ Wizards 7PM CSN..... 

Post#77 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Tue Feb 5, 2013 6:33 pm

tontoz wrote:
Nivek wrote:
dangermouse wrote:I thought the best part of Wall's display today was 8 assists to 2 to's in 32 minutes.

Pretty good for a shoot-first point guard amirite?

Just goes to show that he can get guys open looks, its just up to them to drain the shot, which was happening in the first half.


From the same box score, there's ample evidence to support the notion of Wall being a shoot-first PG. His 18 FGA were 6 more than any teammate. The only player in the game who took more shots was Jamal Crawford.



And he only scored 13 points on those 18 shots. Maybe others weren't discouraged by his play last night but i definitely was.


As Dennis Green said of the Chicago Bears, "The Bears are who we thought they were." I am not disappointed, because Wall is clearly the player I have thought he was all along. With his skill set, the better he defends and the more he creates tempo with penetration while kicking it to shooters, the more effective Wall will be. With knockdown shooters who space the floor well, John can be very effective. When Nene and/or Okafor are scoring inside, that makes things easier for John. Alternatively, John can also play well with players like Vesely and Seraphin if it is strictly an uptempo game against a team that doesn't grind it out.

What John is not, clearly, is a superstar. He is a step or two below an all star. Wall has the physical tools but he doesn't have the basketball IQ to be a great leader at the PG position. I do like his hustle but I don't like that he gets discouraged when his shot doesn't drop. Still, the primary thing Wall does well is speed up and outrun or overwhelm slow defenders. He can't beat teams any other way, and the scouting report against him says do two things: Collapse in and dare Wall to shoot. Also, engage him by having him try to outscore a hot PG who has an outside shot. Wall hurts the team when he shoots too much and when he gets loose with his handle and careless with his passes.

Wall is who I thought he is, but at this point he is no longer overrated, because the league sees it now. The Clipper announcers, Ralph Lawler and Michael Smith, said their question is, "Will Wall have a better career than Eric Bledsoe."

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... ser01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... ljo01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/box ... 40WAS.html

If yesterday was the first time you saw either player, it is easy to say Bledsoe could be the better player right now. This season's stats would back that up, too.

None of this particularly bothers me, because Wall is who I've thought, both good and bad.
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Re: 2/4 LA Clippers @ Wizards 7PM CSN..... 

Post#78 » by tontoz » Tue Feb 5, 2013 6:42 pm

CCJ it is hard to take you seriously about Wall. No matter what type of player Wall turns out to be you can claim you were right.
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Re: 2/4 LA Clippers @ Wizards 7PM CSN..... 

Post#79 » by fishercob » Tue Feb 5, 2013 6:49 pm

Dat2U wrote:Wall didn't play well but I'm tired of every damn game being a referendum on whether he's a bust or not. I really don't think this is all about him but It's becoming painfully obvious that he may not develop while he's a Washington Wizard. Ruz is right, there's been absolutely no development among any of it's young players. In fact, we've seen more regression than development.

This franchise may be winning a few more games now, but it's on the backs of an old and outdated frontline that doesn't match our young core along with contributions from minimum free agents like Webster & Price and even last night, a career NBDL'er in Garrett Temple. While it may make Ernie & Ted feel better about the product they've put on the floor, these wins are simply window dressing for the rotten dying core that lies underneath.

I'm starting to think we've only seen the beginning of how bad this novel is going to be. If Ted is really as out of touch as his Ted's Take columns and interviews indicate he is, we may be looking at years of misery ahead.


Dat, I do share your overall pessimism. Normally, I'm pretty dismissive of criticisms of organization player development for a few reasons -- (1) we dont see the vast majority of what happens (2) quantity and quality of individual players' work is by far the biggest driver of their "development" and (3) picking the right talent is a hell of a lot more important than some magic formula to develop it.

That said, Nivek's recent discussion of Wall's shot selection strikes me as something the organization could and should be focusing on to help him be more productive. It''s an easy math problem, not to mention the fact that there are big schematic advantages to whatever adjustments a defense would naturally make should John actually hit 2 or 3 in a row (obviously happens from time to time even with bad shooters).

But the overarching problem isn't development. McGee and Young have not blossomed into special players now that they're in different environments. Blatche is more productive, but that;s all about his choice to show up in shape and act a little more like a grownup. The problem is TALENT. The problem is that our stable of "young players with upside" includes Seraphin, Singleton, Crawford, Vesely and Booker and none of Faried, Leonard, Parsons, Bledsoe, Avery Bradley, Klay Thompson, Jimmy Butler or Lavor Allen.

We're bad because our players are bad, and what's worse is that we have no asset base from which to trade. No Al Jefferson that helped land KG. No Eric Gordon for Chris Paul. No cache of picks and cap space for James Harden. No cap space for young good players like Ryan Anderson or Nik Pekovic.

Our "plan," from what I can surmise, is this:

(1) Assume that Beal and Wall develop into a backcourt along the lines of Isiah & Dumars or at least Payton and Hersey Hawkins.

(2) Use overpaid veterans to transition the organization's profile from "laughingstock" to "afterthought" or maybe even "nonthreatening respectability." The old "first win, then get good."

(3) Based on 1 & 2, become a desired destination for free agents and/or disgruntled stars via trade. Upon maturation of some the the expensive veteran contracts, use cap space/flexibility and whatever other assets we need/have, to add impact players.

That's my best read on things. It strikes me as a decidedly dreadful plan that rests of several faulty premises. But hey, Wizards. Ya know?
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Re: 2/4 LA Clippers @ Wizards 7PM CSN..... 

Post#80 » by Dat2U » Tue Feb 5, 2013 7:01 pm

Fish I normally would side with the whole talent vs. organizational thing. And in 95% of the cases I think that holds true. However I suspect the Wizards are a special case. The level of disorganization and incompetence is so overwhelming, I can't help but think that no player could overcome this.

I was wondering what would happen to MJ if he had gotten drafted to the Wizards. If he had broken his wrist like he did in his rookie year in Chicago, would the Wiz doctors somehow mistreat or misdiagnose the injury to the point where it's a continuing problem. Would Jordan have fixed his admittedly shaky jumper when he first came into the league in a Wizards uniform? Would Ernie have some managed to build a contender around him? I really don't know.

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