College Basketball/Draft Prospect Thread (Manual Ram Thread)

[Ben]

DX has Oladipo up to #16.

And it should be higher come the draft. Gerald Henderson went #12 in 2009, and Oladipo seems to me a better prospect.

i don't want any part of ricky ledo. there are red flags all around that kid.

Age-wise, this guy should be a junior in college at this point, shouldn't he? And might declare for the draft without ever having played a college game? What the heck has he been doing? And who's been giving him advice?

[DanTown8587]

i don't want any part of ricky ledo. there are red flags all around that kid.

Lance Stephenson. Josh Selby. Jereme Richmond. Ricky Ledo. How do you compare that group of talented HS who never had the college impact many thought they would?

[ManualRam]

i don't want any part of ricky ledo. there are red flags all around that kid.

Age-wise, this guy should be a junior in college at this point, shouldn't he? And might declare for the draft without ever having played a college game? What the heck has he been doing? And who's been giving him advice?

probably the same people who gave him advice in HS and turned him into a basketball vagabond.

[ManualRam]

i don't want any part of ricky ledo. there are red flags all around that kid.

Lance Stephenson. Josh Selby. Jereme Richmond. Ricky Ledo. How do you compare that group of talented HS who never had the college impact many thought they would?

eh, i prefer to look at players individually.
he and "his people" have made questionable decisions since he started getting recognition in HS. there's the multiple schools, his age for his class, maturity issues and there are question marks about his ability to play within a team concept. he's skilled offensively but his intangibles are non-existent. he's got a low bball iq, bad shot selection, plays selfish ball and plays with inconsistent effort.
he NEEDED a yr of college to show how well he can fit within a team concept.

[RedBulls23]

@Manual- do you still think this draft is still pretty weak, or watching more games/prospects make you feel that it could turn into a solid draft?

[ManualRam]

@Manual- do you still think this draft is still pretty weak, or watching more games/prospects make you feel that it could turn into a solid draft?

no, i still think it's weak. seems like every prospect in the lotto has huge question marks surrounding them. i liek certain players a lot, but i don't see the superstar potential. maybe the depth looks a little better than predicted.

[Jimmy Forums]

eh, i prefer to look at players individually.
he and "his people" have made questionable decisions since he started getting recognition in HS. there's the multiple schools, his age for his class, maturity issues and there are question marks about his ability to play within a team concept. he's skilled offensively but his intangibles are non-existent. he's got a low bball iq, bad shot selection, plays selfish ball and plays with inconsistent effort.
he NEEDED a yr of college to show how well he can fit within a team concept.

What questionable decisions would those be? And if I remember correctly he's old for his class because he went to 5 different schools. Something about credits didn't transfer maybe? But so all you're saying is you wouldn't give him a chance because he seems to have a less than ideal background or team game as young player, even though he's gifted and could play a role for us? He's 20. He can learn to play a team game. If you ask me that's much easier and convenient for us than getting another team-first guy who needs to learn to play offense.

[ManualRam]

eh, i prefer to look at players individually.
he and "his people" have made questionable decisions since he started getting recognition in HS. there's the multiple schools, his age for his class, maturity issues and there are question marks about his ability to play within a team concept. he's skilled offensively but his intangibles are non-existent. he's got a low bball iq, bad shot selection, plays selfish ball and plays with inconsistent effort.
he NEEDED a yr of college to show how well he can fit within a team concept.

What questionable decisions would those be? And if I remember correctly he's old for his class because he went to 5 different schools. Something about credits didn't transfer maybe? But so all you're saying is you wouldn't give him a chance because he seems to have a less than ideal background or team game as young player, even though he's gifted and could play a role for us? He's 20. He can learn to play a team game. If you ask me that's much easier and convenient for us than getting another team-first guy who needs to learn to play offense.

basically the amount of schools that he went to. he wasn't going from school to school because his family was moving. he was going from academy to academy. he had no stability. no chemistry with his teammates. he didn't stick around to achieve anything with his team. he'd play for a school, then it was on to the next. same thing goes for the different AAU programs he played for. speaking of AAU ball, he was the leader of a pretty decent AAU squad his last yr of AAU ball and led his team to a 1-10 start and a terrible record overall.

also, a couple of his transfers were because of him. he has an attitude problem and he's not the easiest to teammate to play with. his journey as a player mirrors that of beasley who went to multiple schools as well because of attitude issues and because he was basically shopping himself for better accommodations. this kid went to all those schools in his 5 yrs of prep ball and still had work to do after his 5th yr to eventually get his diploma. word is that he's surrounded by bad elements back home and he's not sheltered by them like our boy rose. what makes that worse is that he didn't leave home to go to college, so he's still around these same elements. these are the people who are in his ear.

i don't want him because i'm not a fan of his game and if the bulls were looking for a SG, i'd look elsewhere.
i just don't think he's a winning player even if he comes close to reaching his potential.
the options aren't team first players vs a talent like ledo. there are players who can score too and can get theirs within the team concept. just because a player is offensively skilled doesn't mean he doesn't have to "learn to play offense." players like him definitely have to learn how to play offense because they don't know how to get theirs without dominating the ball. they don't know how to share the ball or move without it and they don't know how to pick their spots either.

[BullsFTW]

ManRam

Have you heard about Mario Hezonja from Croatia? I've never seen him play, but I've seen his name pop out in mock-drafts for 2014. I'm not sure if you watch Euro-Ball, but if you do, what's your impression about him?

[ManualRam]

ManRam

Have you heard about Mario Hezonja from Croatia? I've never seen him play, but I've seen his name pop out in mock-drafts for 2014. I'm not sure if you watch Euro-Ball, but if you do, what's your impression about him?

i haven't seen him play for his domestic teams but i saw him play in int'l competition for the u17 croatian team this past summer. he's a hell of a physical talent with pure shooting mechanics. he's listed at 6'6, but he looked taller than that this past summer with a good build. if he stays at SG that'd be a huge plus. he's got easy 3 ball range and he's an effortless leaper in transition. can really throw down some monster dunks when he has momentum. has a very americanized game though with an ability to create space to get his shot off. he's just an ok ball-handler. he can use his handle to create space on the perimeter for jump shots, doesn't use it as much as he should to get to the rim. plays a little too upright imo. he can be very selfish and has gunner tendencies. will take some really difficult shots and super long 3's. he's not much of a passer at all and his motor runs hot and cold. the tools are there defensively, but he's a better off-the-ball defender than he is on the ball. he can be lazy there but anticipates well in the passing lanes.

i think he has star talent, but that'll depend on if he's willing and able to improve his floor game and decision making. word is that he has a bit of an attitude problem.

[BuffaloBull]

It's going to be interesting to see if the Bulls pick up a 5 in this draft. With Omer gone, it's the most glaring hole in the roster: getting a big body that can share the floor with Noah for stretches would be great.

There's actually a wide variety of bigs in this draft to choose from too. Leaving out the top 5-6 leaves a pool of interesting players the Bulls might have the means to acquire either at their own pick or by moving up:

Rudy Gobert
Mam Jaiteh
Kelly Olynyk
Steven Adams (doubt he comes out)
Willie Cauley-Stein
Jeff Withey
Gorgui Dieng
Mike Muscala
Patric Young

I haven't seen enough college ball to differentiate between these players. I think Gorgui would be a great culture and defensive fit. Willie Cauley-Stein intrigues me (he was a wideout in high school, good hands!), Steven Adams too. Kelly Olynyk doesn't have the defense you'd normally want out of a big, but his offensive efficiency is pretty stellar. And I have no idea about the French guys.

For people who do watch college ball, how would you rank these mid-tier center prospects for the Bulls needs?

[ManualRam]

i'm not sure the bulls are willing to take on a project since they have more pressing needs in the near term, but the 2 players who i would trade up to draft are: ben mclemore and steven adams. i think adams' potential, especially on the defensive end, is immense. imo his athleticism and body type puts him somewhere in the mix b/t tyson chandler and omer asik physically.

can't really comment on those other int'l guys since i haven't seen them, but i do like what i read about mam jaiteh. i think scouts are too infatuated with gobert's length. it's like as soon as his official measurements came out he shot up draft boards. what about his actual game?

cauley-stein doesn't do much for me. he's fluid, big and plays with a decent activity level. that's all i can say about him. i've seen him projected to go somewhere in the lottery by some sites. if he's lotto then steven adams is top 4.

withey and dieng have been discussed a lot in this thread. they'd be great fits in terms of what the bulls need out of a 4th big, but is their upside any more than that? i personally like dieng more than withey since i think he's slightly more versatile defensively with his ability to defend in space (reminds me of taj in that aspect), but his offense outside of his passing ability is really bad. another concern i'd have about dieng...well both of these guys really, is how much more strength can they put on their frames. dieng has put on about 20 lbs in the past yr or so, but how much more can he put on?

i've gotten to see more olynyk than muscala, but both of these guys would be able to add another offensive dimension to the frontcourt. both guys can hit the mid-range jumper out to 20 feet (in olynyk's case even further). they're both really good passers, but i'm unsure if either of their back to the basket games will translate. i think both can be smart, active, finesse guys on offense. muscala's arguably the most productive player in all of college basketball. his rebounding rates in particular are really impressive (~15/gm per 40). he also blocks shots at a higher rate than olynyk. i don't expect him to be a defensive/rebounding beast at the next level, but i think he has those 2 areas over olynyk.

young would be last in this group for me. he's a great physical specimen, but he's undersized and he hasn't progressed much at all in his 3 yrs. he's improved a bit defensively, but his rebounding rates still aren't great and i don't think he projects to be a paint protector either.

im not gonna rate the guys that i haven't seen much of, but out of the guys you listed i'd probably go:

adams

dieng
withey
muscala/olynyk- it's a toss up to me. olynyk has slightly better size and i've seen more of him, but i can't ignore muscala's much better rebounding and shot-blocking rates.

cauley-stein- he's too far away for me to see the bulls taking him. looks like more of an athlete than a basketball player. i think it'd be a daniel orton-like mistake if he were to declare this yr.

young

[Red Larrivee]

I think Cauley-Stein would be a lot more justified in declaring than Orton was. Orton's main problem was his activity level sucked. He disappeared a lot and his presence was never felt on the court. That's why he's flamed out so quickly, though reports state that he's getting better.

Cauley-Stein is 7'0, 250. Orton was 6'9. WCS is a a much better athlete than Orton and understand his role better. He's got great energy, you can feel his presence on the floor and he's still got room to get better. He does all the basic things that Orton failed to do. Runs the floor, rotates well, plays big and just stays active.

If he returns and Noel declares, it'd be interesting to see how he plays with the freshman next year. I like Cauley-Stein. He could be a steal if he's used right.

[BuffaloBull]

I think Cauley-Stein would be a lot more justified in declaring than Orton was. Orton's main problem was his activity level sucked. He disappeared a lot and his presence was never felt on the court. That's why he's flamed out so quickly, though reports state that he's getting better.

Cauley-Stein is 7'0, 250. Orton was 6'9. WCS is a a much better athlete than Orton and understand his role better. He's got great energy, you can feel his presence on the floor and he's still got room to get better. He does all the basic things that Orton failed to do. Runs the floor, rotates well, plays big and just stays active.

If he returns and Noel declares, it'd be interesting to see how he plays with the freshman next year. I like Cauley-Stein. He could be a steal if he's used right.

This is the video that has me intrigued with him. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjNZtUGl4Ko[/youtube]

I think it says something about your natural athleticism when you are 7ft and can play wideout and not be a joke. According to his UK player bio, he caught 57 passes for 1,140 yards and 14 touchdowns through nine games in 2011 as a wide receiver.

I really don't know what kind of basketball player he could be though. From the little I've seen there's a smoothness to his game that almost seems lazy or too easy. Sorta reminds me of a young Sheed, not in skills, just in his body motion.

[ManualRam]

I think Cauley-Stein would be a lot more justified in declaring than Orton was. Orton's main problem was his activity level sucked. He disappeared a lot and his presence was never felt on the court. That's why he's flamed out so quickly, though reports state that he's getting better.

Cauley-Stein is 7'0, 250. Orton was 6'9. WCS is a a much better athlete than Orton and understand his role better. He's got great energy, you can feel his presence on the floor and he's still got room to get better. He does all the basic things that Orton failed to do. Runs the floor, rotates well, plays big and just stays active.

If he returns and Noel declares, it'd be interesting to see how he plays with the freshman next year. I like Cauley-Stein. He could be a steal if he's used right.

orton, despite being closer to 6'9-6'10 has better length and body strength than WCS. he was more of a plodder, but he projected to be more of a k.perkins type than the athletic, open court j.mcgee type. neither were/are even close to being nba contributors after 1 yr.

i don't know about that 250 part for WCS. he doesn't look like it nor does he play like it, as he still gets pushed around by guys smaller than him. he does have a good base to work with though.

i agree it'll be interesting if he decides to come back next yr. wiltjer will likely be back unless he wants to go to europe early, but it's possible that both dakari johnson and marcus lee are both better than cauley stein. johnson's already more advanced than cauley-stein offensively and marcus lee is one of the most underrated big man prospects in HS. lee should be top 10 in a loaded senior class IMO.

[DanTown8587]

I will say this about Cauley-Stein: if he's a legit seven footer and has that athletic ability, you almost have to draft that where the Bulls are drafting. I'm not saying that in this case Stein is going to be a good player, but the list of people his size that have that athletic ability is not large. Centers are incredibly valuable. If he has just the physical attributes and you can coach him, you're looking at a guy who just became an incredibly valuable player in the league. I rarely would suggest Chicago take a chance, but I would be disappointed if a team like Chicago wouldn't take that chance.

[BullsFTW]

ManRam

Have you heard about Mario Hezonja from Croatia? I've never seen him play, but I've seen his name pop out in mock-drafts for 2014. I'm not sure if you watch Euro-Ball, but if you do, what's your impression about him?

i haven't seen him play for his domestic teams but i saw him play in int'l competition for the u17 croatian team this past summer. he's a hell of a physical talent with pure shooting mechanics. he's listed at 6'6, but he looked taller than that this past summer with a good build. if he stays at SG that'd be a huge plus. he's got easy 3 ball range and he's an effortless leaper in transition. can really throw down some monster dunks when he has momentum. has a very americanized game though with an ability to create space to get his shot off. he's just an ok ball-handler. he can use his handle to create space on the perimeter for jump shots, doesn't use it as much as he should to get to the rim. plays a little too upright imo. he can be very selfish and has gunner tendencies. will take some really difficult shots and super long 3's. he's not much of a passer at all and his motor runs hot and cold. the tools are there defensively, but he's a better off-the-ball defender than he is on the ball. he can be lazy there but anticipates well in the passing lanes.

i think he has star talent, but that'll depend on if he's willing and able to improve his floor game and decision making. word is that he has a bit of an attitude problem.

Once again, great analysis ManRam. I appreciate it.

I actually watch some videos of him in YouTube. He does show what information you've provided. Interesting about the attitude part, especially that our FO is big on high-character players. So I'm assuming despite his talent, Bulls may not be high on him.

[23-7]

Well Oladipo for one night at least looked like a second rounder

[BIGGIEsmalls 23]

Wiggins Scores 57 In Response To Article Questioning Effort, Intensity

Andrew Wiggins scored 57 points on 24-of-28 shooting, grabbed 13 rebounds and blocked 4 shots in Huntington Prep's 111-59 win over Marietta College JV on Thursday night.

Earlier Thursday, Wiggins caught wind of a Sports Illustrated article that portrayed him as a player who doesn't go full-tilt against lesser competition.

"I just had to respond to the negative outlook that the reporter gave me," Wiggins said. "I thought I responded well. Negative media happens to everybody. You just have to work through it and respond."

Just hours earlier, Wiggins was named one of three finalists for the Naismith Player of the Year Award, given annually to the nation's top high school basketball player

The other Naismith Award candidates are Simeon's Jabari Parker and Aaron Gordon of Archbishop Mitty.

"All three are great players and I think Andrew separates himself from the other two in that he can dominate games in ways on both ends of the court," Huntington Prep coach Rob Fulford said.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/22 ... -Intensity

[kyrv]

Wiggins Scores 57 In Response To Article Questioning Effort, Intensity

Andrew Wiggins scored 57 points on 24-of-28 shooting, grabbed 13 rebounds and blocked 4 shots in Huntington Prep's 111-59 win over Marietta College JV on Thursday night.

Earlier Thursday, Wiggins caught wind of a Sports Illustrated article that portrayed him as a player who doesn't go full-tilt against lesser competition.

"I just had to respond to the negative outlook that the reporter gave me," Wiggins said. "I thought I responded well. Negative media happens to everybody. You just have to work through it and respond."

Just hours earlier, Wiggins was named one of three finalists for the Naismith Player of the Year Award, given annually to the nation's top high school basketball player

The other Naismith Award candidates are Simeon's Jabari Parker and Aaron Gordon of Archbishop Mitty.

"All three are great players and I think Andrew separates himself from the other two in that he can dominate games in ways on both ends of the court," Huntington Prep coach Rob Fulford said.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/22 ... -Intensity

Okay but isn't he kind of proving the article?