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Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I

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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I 

Post#921 » by MDStar » Thu Feb 7, 2013 2:04 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:As of right now, I think Austin is a better prospect than Alex Len.

Alex Len has scored only a total of 24 points his last three games. He also grabbed 24 rebounds and had 5 blocks total. Len is a sophomore. Meanwhile, Isaiah Austin over the last three games has 35 points, 42 rebounds, with also 5 blocks. Austin is a freshman.

It will be very interesting the rest of the season. Right now, I think Austin is rising and Len is playing his way down the lottery.


I get what you're saying CCJ but I watch almost every Maryland game and I think his lack of production has more to do with the team, than how he is playing. MD defense is actually pretty good. As a team, they don't get steals or blocks but they play very good man to man defense, which while creating a lot of missed shots and rebounds. (MD is the top rebounding team in the country)

On offense, MD just doesn't get him the ball. Period. It's almost as if without a point guard, MD doesn't have one, that we just do not have an offensive set that get's him the ball. And when he does, he's triple teamed because outside of Layman, Arenholt and the streaky Seth Allen, we don't have any shooters. To make it worst, all three of them have been subs for the majority of the year.

So while his stats aren't there, I think Len is solid in his draft stock.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I 

Post#922 » by Wizardspride » Thu Feb 7, 2013 2:41 pm

MDStar wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:As of right now, I think Austin is a better prospect than Alex Len.

Alex Len has scored only a total of 24 points his last three games. He also grabbed 24 rebounds and had 5 blocks total. Len is a sophomore. Meanwhile, Isaiah Austin over the last three games has 35 points, 42 rebounds, with also 5 blocks. Austin is a freshman.

It will be very interesting the rest of the season. Right now, I think Austin is rising and Len is playing his way down the lottery.


I get what you're saying CCJ but I watch almost every Maryland game and I think his lack of production has more to do with the team, than how he is playing. MD defense is actually pretty good. As a team, they don't get steals or blocks but they play very good man to man defense, which while creating a lot of missed shots and rebounds. (MD is the top rebounding team in the country)

On offense, MD just doesn't get him the ball. Period. It's almost as if without a point guard, MD doesn't have one, that we just do not have an offensive set that get's him the ball. And when he does, he's triple teamed because outside of Layman, Arenholt and the streaky Seth Allen, we don't have any shooters. To make it worst, all three of them have been subs for the majority of the year.

So while his stats aren't there, I think Len is solid in his draft stock.

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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I 

Post#923 » by closg00 » Thu Feb 7, 2013 2:59 pm

Our tank should be fine, we have the 2nd worst record. We will pass Orlando, but we will probably end-up in the bottom-5 if our bottom-5 grouping continues to win games occasionally. We will still be in the running for the #1 pick.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I 

Post#924 » by Ruzious » Thu Feb 7, 2013 2:59 pm

I didn't see the game - just was able to listen to some of it on the radio. When Webster and Ariza played together, which one was playing the 2 - or were they basically both just spotting up and not really performing any offensive guard duties?

Gotta give credit to Chris "Melo-killa" Singleton. Hopefully, his work ethic in being ready when needed wears off on Vesely and Crawford. If those 2 can't get PT for the Wiz, they must not be working hard enough. Vesely not being able to take away any minutes from Seraphin is pretty amazing. And Crawford not being able to take away shooting guard minutes from Temple is bizarre.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I 

Post#925 » by stevemcqueen1 » Thu Feb 7, 2013 3:17 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:As of right now, I think Austin is a better prospect than Alex Len.

Alex Len has scored only a total of 24 points his last three games. He also grabbed 24 rebounds and had 5 blocks total. Len is a sophomore. Meanwhile, Isaiah Austin over the last three games has 35 points, 42 rebounds, with also 5 blocks. Austin is a freshman.

It will be very interesting the rest of the season. Right now, I think Austin is rising and Len is playing his way down the lottery.


I think it's a really tough choice between the two of them. I like both players but for slightly different reasons.

Both are absurdly quick and mobile for true 7 footers. Both have a strength deficiency, although Austin probably more so than Len. Austin's legs are painfully thin looking. He needs to slap some strength on that base.

Both are super long and are good shot blockers and impactful defenders when they get locked in. Both can rebound, but Austin is probably a better rebounder. Both can shoot from mid range surprisingly well given their ages. Austin has command of the 3 ball and can probably play a true stretch 4. Len is more skilled scoring inside IMO. He has a nice offensive tool box all in all, it's a shame Maryland doesn't funnel their offense through him.

I don't really like that Isaiah is related to Ike Austin but,that's just the Wizards fan in me. Obviously that shouldn't count against him in reality.

I don't know. It's a really tough call to make. Early in the year I'd have said Len over Austin. I think Len's upside is so huge. A true 5 that's 7'1 with a background in gymnastics. Wow. But Austin has really opened some eyes this season.

I don't want to over react to the small sample size of games offered in a college season. And when you draft him, Alex Len's awful guards aren't coming with him. Austin is clearly playing in a better situation with such an experienced team in Baylor, so he's going to look better generally, and probably put up better numbers. But that 19 & 20 game Austin put up against Oklahoma is hard to explain away. And it's not like his upside isn't huge too. Right now I would give them equal grades but I think you're right that Austin is trending up past Len.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I 

Post#926 » by stevemcqueen1 » Thu Feb 7, 2013 4:03 pm

Ruzious wrote:I didn't see the game - just was able to listen to some of it on the radio. When Webster and Ariza played together, which one was playing the 2 - or were they basically both just spotting up and not really performing any offensive guard duties?

Gotta give credit to Chris "Melo-killa" Singleton. Hopefully, his work ethic in being ready when needed wears off on Vesely and Crawford. If those 2 can't get PT for the Wiz, they must not be working hard enough. Vesely not being able to take away any minutes from Seraphin is pretty amazing. And Crawford not being able to take away shooting guard minutes from Temple is bizarre.


Neither Webster nor Ariza handled the Ball when Wall was in. Wall was almost entirely ball dominant, and that offense worked extremely well.

On defense, I believe Ariza guarded the 2 more but he's got a very fluid defensive role where he gets a lot of freedom to roam. He will switch on to the ballcarrier at times or he'll play off the ball and sneak up on you and make big plays on traps and double teams. In general, the team D was very tight last night. The game plan to stop Melo worked well IMO, though he scored a lot of points, it was herky--jerky and we kept him out of rhythm mostly. We forced him into a lot of tough shots and got him to miss a lot of the easy ones that are automatic for him normally. We did a really good job doubling him and keeping him from getting going off the dribble and within 12 feet of the rim.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I 

Post#927 » by nate33 » Thu Feb 7, 2013 4:10 pm

I wish I saw the game. It would have been neat to watch Singleton, Webster, Ariza and Wall on defense. With that kind of length and mobility, they could have switched every screen and really hawked the passing lanes. I hope Wittman plays that group a little more. Booker can also fit in (as can Vesely, though with more offensive downside).
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I 

Post#928 » by rl25g » Thu Feb 7, 2013 4:14 pm

stevemcqueen1 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:I didn't see the game - just was able to listen to some of it on the radio. When Webster and Ariza played together, which one was playing the 2 - or were they basically both just spotting up and not really performing any offensive guard duties?

Gotta give credit to Chris "Melo-killa" Singleton. Hopefully, his work ethic in being ready when needed wears off on Vesely and Crawford. If those 2 can't get PT for the Wiz, they must not be working hard enough. Vesely not being able to take away any minutes from Seraphin is pretty amazing. And Crawford not being able to take away shooting guard minutes from Temple is bizarre.


Neither Webster nor Ariza handled the Ball when Wall was in. Wall was almost entirely ball dominant, and that offense worked extremely well.

On defense, I believe Ariza guarded the 2 more but he's got a very fluid defensive role where he gets a lot of freedom to roam. He will switch on to the ballcarrier at times or he'll play off the ball and sneak up on you and make big plays on traps and double teams. In general, the team D was very tight last night. The game plan to stop Melo worked well IMO, though he scored a lot of points, it was herky--jerky and we kept him out of rhythm mostly. We forced him into a lot of tough shots and got him to miss a lot of the easy ones that are automatic for him normally. We did a really good job doubling him and keeping him from getting going off the dribble and within 12 feet of the rim.


for the most part, it looked like Ariza was checking Melo and Webster spent a lot of time checking JR Smith.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I 

Post#929 » by Nivek » Thu Feb 7, 2013 4:27 pm

Kind of a strange game when I look at the numbers. This was a bad game for the Wizards defensively -- a drtg of 109. BUT, the Knicks efg was just .458, which is actually pretty good. The Wizards weren't very good on the defensive glass, fouled too much and forced very few turnovers.

The Knicks game was the Wizards' 2nd best offensive outing of the season -- their efg was .601, they had few turnovers (Wall had 6, the rest of the team had 4), and they finished the game with an ortg of 120 in a slow-paced game.

Kinda funny, the Wiz have played great defense for awhile, but now we're talking about it after a poor defensive game and a terrific offensive performance.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I 

Post#930 » by tontoz » Thu Feb 7, 2013 4:37 pm

nate33 wrote:I wish I saw the game. It would have been neat to watch Singleton, Webster, Ariza and Wall on defense. With that kind of length and mobility, they could have switched every screen and really hawked the passing lanes. I hope Wittman plays that group a little more. Booker can also fit in (as can Vesely, though with more offensive downside).


It also showed how much better the offense flows with a stretch 4. Wall can beat his man off the dribble at any time and if there are 3 guys who can hit 3s playing with him that makes things tough for the defense.

I am not optimistic enough to think CS could be that guy but it was interesting to see. I was expecting the usual 4th quarter offensive meltdown last night but it didn't happen and i think the lineup was a big reason why.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I 

Post#931 » by stevemcqueen1 » Thu Feb 7, 2013 4:53 pm

Warning, really long post coming. I apologize in advance.


One of the things I've slowly been coming to accept is that we need to have at least two, preferably three 3 ball shooters on the court with Wall at all times. At the 5, I love having a defensive big man like Okafor that rebounds and finishes his looks around the basket (and it doesn't hurt he can knock down an open shot out to ~13 feet). I'd love to keep a player like that at the 5 long term.

But at both of the forward spots and at SG, we need to value shooting very highly. Basically, no more new Veselys and Bookers. No more streaky shooting athletic defensive specialists. They need to be reliable offensive players.

Best of all worlds would be two great three ball shooters at the 2 and the 3 or 4 and then getting a forward that can face up and do some work off the bounce mid range, catch and shoot, and maybe even take it to the rack. We've kind of got that in Nene but he's not a face-up forward and his drive is not much of a threat. He's a true big man that does his creating from the post. I'd like a guy that can start from a spot further out on the floor and keep those driving lanes open for Wall.

Failing that, a stretch 4 like Ersan that can rebound and spot up from 3 would be nice.

But you do need a secondary source of offensive creativity in the half court. It can't just be Wall or you're going to run into the problems the Bulls faced before they got Boozer.

Right now I think we've got three really creative half court players. Wall, Nene, and Crawford. Crawford and Wall have flaws though, and in Crawford's case, sometimes he takes more off the table than he puts on it. That's why his minutes have been dwindling lately. Nene has a great skill set and takes almost nothing off the table when he's out there, but he's not going to be around and effective forever. We've probably got two more effective years from him. What about the rest of the Wall era? What do we do about Okafor after next season? He's another aging player whose window doesn't coincide with Wall & Beal.

What about Ariza and Martell? Ariza is extremely valuable when he's dialed in and his 3 ball is falling. But when it's not, he can be a huge detriment on offense. He's streaky. Martell is a journey man having his career year, but it's still only a 13.6 PER which is below NBA average. I don't think either are the starting SF on a 50 win contender, but both are a valuable part of the rotation. And both are potentially FAs this summer. Got to figure out something there.

And I think we'd do well to find a really good situation at backup PG. Price is alright. He's steady. I like the way he's seemed to find a home with the team and I think he's been something of a quiet glue man. But if we got a really good backup PG, I think that would be great for John and for the team as a whole. This is a spot for a potential upgrade.

And what are we going to do with all of our young developmental types that are not playing consistent minutes? If we're being realistic, there are not enough minutes to go around for all of them to properly develop. The development of Vesely and Singleton is happening at a glacial pace. Booker has been in and out for almost three years. Crawford's minutes have been all over the place. Seraphin's minutes are coming largely because he's the only true big man we've got on the bench. He's streaky as hell too, and when he's off, he can take a lot off the table.

I've said it elsewhere, but sometimes I get the feeling we're not particularly interested in truly developing all of our young players and that we only loaded up on so many draft picks so we could go cheap on the contracts on the bench but keep people from getting pissed off at poor roster quality by selling everybody on the "upside" of the young players. Upside that, of course, will never be realized if the players are not developed.

You can't really develop anyone without giving them a well defined role and consistent minutes. And you can't really develop anyone while getting your butt kicked every single night. You've got to have some success here and there to justify keeping things together. But teams full of young players don't win in the NBA. Ergo, no NBA team can develop more than a few young players at a time.

Well we've got seven first round picks on the roster with less than three seasons of experience. Of that group, only Wall and Beal are cemented in their roles and progressing well in their development. We've got more questions than answers about everyone else. AND you've got at least one more high draft pick coming into the mix this offseason.

Keeping a bunch of rookie contracts on your bench isn't necessarily a bad strategy from a salary perspective. Rookies are cheap compared to vets. In the new era of the crippling repeater tax, you have absolutely got to keep your salary costs down. That means your bench needs to be cheap. And you can pretty much do whatever you want with a rookie contract role player's minutes without worrying about stepping on toes.

But the problem drafting talented rookies with upside and then not developing them properly is that you pay a stiff opportunity cost. That rookie's "upside" has real team building value that comes with a fairly short shelf life. You can either trade the player for better assets to a team looking to develop a young player. Or of course you can develop the guy yourself and get a good talent on a bargain contract.

I keep coming back to a place where I think our best bet is to pick two of Crawford, Booker, Singleton, Vesely, and Seraphin, and then deal the other three for veteran assets or future draft picks. something to stagger the development process better.

Who I would deal depends on who I got in the draft. For instance, if I got a big man like Zeller or Noel, I'd be willing to move Seraphin. But if we get a wing like Muhammad, McLemore, Porter, etc. you have to keep Seraphin because you aren't going to get a better big man for the bench on a contract like that.

I mean I guess we could keep stashing Singleton and Vesely and bringing them along at a snail's pace. But then they'll have roles on the team by the time they're what, 26 or 27? Even that feels optimistic, and even if that happened, it's a missed opportunity IMO. In that case it would have been better to just leave Vesely in Europe like San Antonio did with Tiago Splitter.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I 

Post#932 » by stevemcqueen1 » Thu Feb 7, 2013 5:02 pm

Nivek wrote:Kind of a strange game when I look at the numbers. This was a bad game for the Wizards defensively -- a drtg of 109. BUT, the Knicks efg was just .458, which is actually pretty good. The Wizards weren't very good on the defensive glass, fouled too much and forced very few turnovers.

The Knicks game was the Wizards' 2nd best offensive outing of the season -- their efg was .601, they had few turnovers (Wall had 6, the rest of the team had 4), and they finished the game with an ortg of 120 in a slow-paced game.

Kinda funny, the Wiz have played great defense for awhile, but now we're talking about it after a poor defensive game and a terrific offensive performance.


I think the numbers are lying here. All told, the D was pretty damn good last night and it's a big reason we won. The Knicks are an elite offensive team and we kept them playing catch up almost the entire game. They only found a good offensive rhythm once last night, and it was when they had Carmelo, JR Smith, and Amar'e on the floor against all of our reserves except Webster. The fact we were able to single guard Melo so much and still make him uncomfortable is a big achievement.

We did a good job contesting shots, keeping their 3 pt shooters from shelling us from the outside, keeping Melo out of a rhythm, keeping Amar'e from doing too much damage in the paint, keeping JR Smith from going off with all the space Melo generates for him, etc. You can't completely shut those guys down. They are going to hit tough shots, they are going to get position on you and make plays, get offensive rebounds. They are going to get theirs. Limiting them as much as we did was a big defensive victory IMO.

The offense did play great though. Nene and Wall were making great passes, really facilitating the offense well. And Ariza, Webster, and Singleton were nailing their shots.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I 

Post#933 » by Nivek » Thu Feb 7, 2013 5:27 pm

The numbers aren't lying -- this was a poor defensive game by Washington's recent standards, AND it was also a slightly subpar offensive game for the Knicks. NYK had an ortg of 109 against the Wizards, which is below their season average of 111.4.

The Wizards season average drtg is 102.5; over the past 15 games it's been about 99.

The stuff about contesting shooters is true, but the net result when looking at total offensive efficiency (which includes FT shooting, turnovers and offensive rebounding) was actually a subpar for both teams.

Kind of a weird game.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I 

Post#934 » by pancakes3 » Thu Feb 7, 2013 6:46 pm

I mean, half the games are going to be above the season average by definition. The knicks are good offensively, so it's unrealistic that we would hold them to a sub 100 ortg. But overall, the point taken is that the Wiz didn't win this based on their recent calling card of good D but rather an uncharacteristically high offensive output.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I 

Post#935 » by dandrews » Thu Feb 7, 2013 6:47 pm

The one thing that really bothers me about Olidipo Is his ball handling. For somebody that athletic, his ball handling is atrocious. That really keeps me from thinking he's going to be able to create on his own in the NBA
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I 

Post#936 » by Zonkerbl » Thu Feb 7, 2013 7:03 pm

Nivek wrote:The numbers aren't lying -- this was a poor defensive game by Washington's recent standards, AND it was also a slightly subpar offensive game for the Knicks. NYK had an ortg of 109 against the Wizards, which is below their season average of 111.4.

The Wizards season average drtg is 102.5; over the past 15 games it's been about 99.

The stuff about contesting shooters is true, but the net result when looking at total offensive efficiency (which includes FT shooting, turnovers and offensive rebounding) was actually a subpar for both teams.

Kind of a weird game.


I think you're interpreting these statistics weirdly.

The knicks season average ortg is 111.4 - against the Wizards it was 109.

Doesn't that mean that the defensive rating for the Wizards was higher than average because the knicks' offense is better than average? Yes, the knicks did in fact perform better offensively than the Wizards' other opponents. But the knicks also performed less well against the wizards than they normally do.

Also, if I understand correctly, the knicks are doing well primarily because of their offense -- they have pretty crappy defense, except at center. So it doesn't surprise me, either, that the wizards had a good offensive performance. [edit: well, except the knicks have the same drtg as Miami...]

So the question is, did the zards win because they held the knicks two points below their average, or did the wizards score more than the knicks' opponents normally score? What is the knicks season average defensive rating?

Since they won by eight I would imagine that they held the knicks to two below their average and scored six more than knicks' opponents' average, in which case yeah, it was 75% good offense and 25% good defense.

[Edit: The knicks drtg is 105.7, so if the wizards got an ortg of 120, then it looks like it was more 90% good offense and 10% good defense]
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I 

Post#937 » by hands11 » Fri Feb 8, 2013 12:36 am

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:As of right now, I think Austin is a better prospect than Alex Len.

Alex Len has scored only a total of 24 points his last three games. He also grabbed 24 rebounds and had 5 blocks total. Len is a sophomore. Meanwhile, Isaiah Austin over the last three games has 35 points, 42 rebounds, with also 5 blocks. Austin is a freshman.

It will be very interesting the rest of the season. Right now, I think Austin is rising and Len is playing his way down the lottery.


I told you. Stay away from both.

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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I 

Post#938 » by hands11 » Fri Feb 8, 2013 12:47 am

Zonkerbl wrote:
Nivek wrote:The numbers aren't lying -- this was a poor defensive game by Washington's recent standards, AND it was also a slightly subpar offensive game for the Knicks. NYK had an ortg of 109 against the Wizards, which is below their season average of 111.4.

The Wizards season average drtg is 102.5; over the past 15 games it's been about 99.

The stuff about contesting shooters is true, but the net result when looking at total offensive efficiency (which includes FT shooting, turnovers and offensive rebounding) was actually a subpar for both teams.

Kind of a weird game.


I think you're interpreting these statistics weirdly.

The knicks season average ortg is 111.4 - against the Wizards it was 109.

Doesn't that mean that the defensive rating for the Wizards was higher than average because the knicks' offense is better than average? Yes, the knicks did in fact perform better offensively than the Wizards' other opponents. But the knicks also performed less well against the wizards than they normally do.

Also, if I understand correctly, the knicks are doing well primarily because of their offense -- they have pretty crappy defense, except at center. So it doesn't surprise me, either, that the wizards had a good offensive performance. [edit: well, except the knicks have the same drtg as Miami...]

So the question is, did the zards win because they held the knicks two points below their average, or did the wizards score more than the knicks' opponents normally score? What is the knicks season average defensive rating?

Since they won by eight I would imagine that they held the knicks to two below their average and scored six more than knicks' opponents' average, in which case yeah, it was 75% good offense and 25% good defense.

[Edit: The knicks drtg is 105.7, so if the wizards got an ortg of 120, then it looks like it was more 90% good offense and 10% good defense]


That is how I would evaluate it.

Victor and Zeller are on for those that want to watch.

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=330380356

CJ Leslie and Richard Howell and Lorenzo Brown NC State vs Duke.. Plumlee
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/preview?gameId=330380150
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I 

Post#939 » by stevemcqueen1 » Fri Feb 8, 2013 4:06 am

Plumlee is older than Derrick Favors, John Wall, and Jan Vesely, he came from the same recruiting class as DeMarcus Cousins. He's a grown man playing against teen-aged boys. He's a low skill hustle big man with pretty good athleticism. He's a role player in the NBA, I doubt he becomes a regular starter on a good team. Nerlens Noel is wholly better than him. Zeller, Austin, and Len are all far better prospects than him too IMO.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I 

Post#940 » by nate33 » Fri Feb 8, 2013 4:23 am

stevemcqueen1 wrote:Plumlee is older than Derrick Favors, John Wall, and Jan Vesely, he came from the same recruiting class as DeMarcus Cousins. He's a grown man playing against teen-aged boys. He's a low skill hustle big man with pretty good athleticism. He's a role player in the NBA, I doubt he becomes a regular starter on a good team. Nerlens Noel is wholly better than him. Zeller, Austin, and Len are all far better prospects than him too IMO.

Agreed.

Plumlee is the kind of guy you draft with a late first round pick in the hopes that he can be an NBA ready role player with a cheap contract. Hopefully, he'll pan out to be something like Zaza Pachulia. I don't think he can be much more.

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