Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part I

Floater · Post #981 » by **Floater** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:24 pm

Barring an incredible stretch of performances in late February/March, no way in hell Len should come out. If he has his eyes on money, he'll probably come out even if he's not ready. He has little court awareness and pressure gets to him. He's not ready, the NBA will eat him alive. We need guys that are ready to contribute. Len cannot next year. Maybe in a few years

Wizardspride · Post #982 » by **Wizardspride** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:26 pm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/co ... story.html

Georgetown basketball vs. Rutgers: Otto Porter Jr. wills Hoyas to victory

PISCATAWAY, N.J. — Saddled with foul trouble and surrendering far too many long-range baskets, the Georgetown men’s basketball team simply couldn’t seize control of its shootout with Rutgers as the clock wound down Saturday afternoon. And the Hoyas’ tenuous prospects took an ominous turn when forward Nate Lubick, who has been a stalwart defender and steady offensive contributor all season, fouled out with just more than six minutes remaining.

At that point, No. 20 Georgetown trailed by one. And at that point, sophomore Otto Porter Jr. got down to serious work. He scored the next 10 points to virtually hand-deliver a 69-63 victory.

Porter scored 15 of his 19 points in the second half, including five of the game’s last seven in the final 75 seconds. Along the way he grabbed 14 of Georgetown’s 29 total rebounds and dished out a team-high four assists when tight defensive coverage made it tricky to get off his own shot.

“That’s what we’ve come to expect,” Coach John Thompson III said of Porter. “He’s one of the best players in the country, and the best players in the country come through.”

bjack18 · Post #983 » by **bjack18** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:04 pm

Did anyone see the IU-OSU game?...I looked at the box score and Oladipo had a very nice stat line...wondering if he played as well as the numbers indicate...i'd love to see him on the Wiz but don't see him as a fit currently

Post #984 » by **Ruzious** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:46 pm

bjack18 wrote:Did anyone see the IU-OSU game?...I looked at the box score and Oladipo had a very nice stat line...wondering if he played as well as the numbers indicate...i'd love to see him on the Wiz but don't see him as a fit currently

I didn't see the game, but his tremendous efficiency is nothing new - though it's nice to see bigger numbers. I think he'd be a perfect fit for Milwaukee, and he'll likely go around where they're picking. Barring a trade, he's not really an option for Washington, imo.

Post #985 » by **jmrosenth** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:49 pm

I wouldn't be sure Oladipo's not an option for the Wizards. He's playing himself into the lottery and he's the type of guy that will improve his stock in pre-draft workouts with his athleticism. Have seen basically every game he's played over the last 2 years. It's not crazy to say he's the best player in the Big Ten. Over their most recent stretch of games, they are starting to run some of their offense through him. Given the talent around him, he's not going to score in the 20's very often, but it looks like he's going to be the guy with the rock to create at the end of games. The stats really don't tell the whole story though given what he does on defense. Needless to say, I love this guy.

I'm less sure of Cody Zeller's pro potential. He's extremely skilled for his size, underrated athlete, good hands, not afraid to mix it up or rebound. Doesn't really block shots and the jury is out on his jumper. Still, he's going to be a pretty safe pick in the mid-lottery. Skilled big men like him don't go grow on trees. Right now though, I don't see him as an all-star NBA talent.

TGW · Post #986 » by **TGW** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:58 pm

Zeller = a slightly taller Hansborough. He'd be a good pick in the mid-lottery but not as a top pick.

Post #987 » by **Ruzious** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:15 pm

TGW wrote:Zeller = a slightly taller Hansborough. He'd be a good pick in the mid-lottery but not as a top pick.

He's 3 inches taller - that's slightly more than slightly.

He's also an underrated athlete. I think he's a legit top 5 pick, and if Olapido gets drafted before him - you could knock me over with a feather. Olapido and Zeller are about equal prospects for their positions, but good 7 footers are much harder to find than good 6'5 shooting guards. And I like Olapido - Fwiw, I was pushing him here when Draftexpress had him rated as a late 2nd rounder.

nuposse04 · Post #988 » by **nuposse04** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:33 pm

Zeller also has t-rex arms, I think he'll have trouble against true NBA centers because of that. Lucky for him, there are only like 15 true NBA centers out there. That and he isn't quite strong enough for the 5, or fast enough at the 4. I think he can add weight to be a role playing 5...but I don't think he'll ever be more than a 3rd option on a contender. He doesn't seem franchise caliber. He's probably most well equipped to perform early, but his ceiling doesn't warrant top 5 IMO. 8-12...sure.

spaceman_E · Post #989 » by **spaceman_E** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:53 pm

Floater wrote:Barring an incredible stretch of performances in late February/March, no way in hell Len should come out. If he has his eyes on money, he'll probably come out even if he's not ready. He has little court awareness and pressure gets to him. He's not ready, the NBA will eat him alive. We need guys that are ready to contribute. Len cannot next year. Maybe in a few years

All true but you also need to balance upside with instant impact. We have enough bigs that we can afford to teach Len for 2 years, playing 20mpg before handing him the starting gig as Nene steps aside. Our biggest hole nowadays is PF and I don't see a top line starter there from this draft for next season. If no trade option arises, there is a good chance Len is the best option left just based on his upside.

tontoz · Post #990 » by **tontoz** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:57 pm

nuposse04 wrote:Zeller also has t-rex arms, I think he'll have trouble against true NBA centers because of that. Lucky for him, there are only like 15 true NBA centers out there. That and he isn't quite strong enough for the 5, or fast enough at the 4. I think he can add weight to be a role playing 5...but I don't think he'll ever be more than a 3rd option on a contender. He doesn't seem franchise caliber. He's probably most well equipped to perform early, but his ceiling doesn't warrant top 5 IMO. 8-12...sure.

Draftexpress has his wingspan listed at 6'8". Granted he was measured at 6'11.5" with shoes but it will be interesting to see how his standing reach measures out.

tontoz · Post #991 » by **tontoz** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:01 pm

spaceman_E wrote:
Floater wrote:Barring an incredible stretch of performances in late February/March, no way in hell Len should come out. If he has his eyes on money, he'll probably come out even if he's not ready. He has little court awareness and pressure gets to him. He's not ready, the NBA will eat him alive. We need guys that are ready to contribute. Len cannot next year. Maybe in a few years

All true but you also need to balance upside with instant impact. We have enough bigs that we can afford to teach Len for 2 years, playing 20mpg before handing him the starting gig as Nene steps aside. Our biggest hole nowadays is PF and I don't see a top line starter there from this draft for next season. If no trade option arises, there is a good chance Len is the best option left just based on his upside.

I have my doubts about his upside. It seems like he doesn't really have a motor. If he played hard and lacked skill i would be more open to him.

nuposse04 · Post #992 » by **nuposse04** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:28 pm

tontoz wrote:
nuposse04 wrote:Zeller also has t-rex arms, I think he'll have trouble against true NBA centers because of that. Lucky for him, there are only like 15 true NBA centers out there. That and he isn't quite strong enough for the 5, or fast enough at the 4. I think he can add weight to be a role playing 5...but I don't think he'll ever be more than a 3rd option on a contender. He doesn't seem franchise caliber. He's probably most well equipped to perform early, but his ceiling doesn't warrant top 5 IMO. 8-12...sure.

Draftexpress has his wingspan listed at 6'8". Granted he was measured at 6'11.5" with shoes but it will be interesting to see how his standing reach measures out.

My guess is that he'll end up having the standing reach of a 4, and without the explosive lateral quickness of some 4s and the strength of most 5s he'll have an interesting time finding his niche. I honestly think he could be like a bigger tweener version of Jamison, crafty offensive moves, major liability on defense.

Post #993 » by **Ruzious** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:19 pm

nuposse04 wrote:Zeller also has t-rex arms, I think he'll have trouble against true NBA centers because of that. Lucky for him, there are only like 15 true NBA centers out there. That and he isn't quite strong enough for the 5, or fast enough at the 4. I think he can add weight to be a role playing 5...but I don't think he'll ever be more than a 3rd option on a contender. He doesn't seem franchise caliber. He's probably most well equipped to perform early, but his ceiling doesn't warrant top 5 IMO. 8-12...sure.

I disagree. Zeller probably runs the court as well as any 7 footer in the game. And while he he doesn't have a Karl Malone type build, he's gained probably 40 lbs since those measurements were taken - when he was in high school. He's a tweener in a good way, because he has the athleticism and skills to play PF, and he has the size and strength to play C. If anything, he'll likely have more freedom to show off a wider variety of skills in the NBA. You look at him and see a big white guy without a classic build who doesn't have real long arms, but this guy is a reasonably athletic legit 7 footer with excellent skills. He's stronger and more skilled than Len is. He also shows more determination and energy than Len does. And while he's not a big shot-blocker, he's got the feet to play defense - unlike Vucevic of Orlando, for example.

nuposse04 · Post #994 » by **nuposse04** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:34 pm

Ruzious wrote:
nuposse04 wrote:Zeller also has t-rex arms, I think he'll have trouble against true NBA centers because of that. Lucky for him, there are only like 15 true NBA centers out there. That and he isn't quite strong enough for the 5, or fast enough at the 4. I think he can add weight to be a role playing 5...but I don't think he'll ever be more than a 3rd option on a contender. He doesn't seem franchise caliber. He's probably most well equipped to perform early, but his ceiling doesn't warrant top 5 IMO. 8-12...sure.

I disagree. Zeller probably runs the court as well as any 7 footer in the game. And while he he doesn't have a Karl Malone type build, he's gained probably 40 lbs since those measurements were taken - when he was in high school. He's a tweener in a good way, because he has the athleticism and skills to play PF, and he has the size and strength to play C. If anything, he'll likely have more freedom to show off a wider variety of skills in the NBA. You look at him and see a big white guy without a classic build who doesn't have real long arms, but this guy is a reasonably athletic legit 7 footer with excellent skills. He's stronger and more skilled than Len is. He also shows more determination and energy than Len does. And while he's not a big shot-blocker, he's got the feet to play defense - unlike Vucevic of Orlando, for example.

DX has him listed at 240, which is believable with how he currently looks. 6'10.5 240lbs is decent to play the 4, but I haven't seen the lateral quickness out him that would allow him to easily do that. I guess he could be like a stretch 5 as he adds more range to his jumpshot. I don't think he'll be a bad player, I just don't see him being anything ever than a role playing big man that'll prolly peak around 15-16 ppg. While he might be the 2nd most impactful big coming out, at least immediately, I think his potential is well under Noel, Austin, and Len...and if Gobert ever pans out him as well. His standing reach will be an issue for him unless he goes the way of Seraphin and just perfects hook-shots.

It really comes down to some measurable for him IMO, if he has average standing reach, then should secure his draft stock, but if he is who I think he is...I'd avoid drafting him if at all possible. If Larry Bird was still runnin the show maybe he'd swap Zeller+top3 protected 14' for Paul George :lol:

Dat2U · Post #995 » by **Dat2U** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:42 pm

Zeller is one of the hardest guys in the draft to predict. I agree with Ruz that he's got good feet for a 7-0, he's not a plodder like a lot a big white guys. My one concern is he needs a reliable jump shot to open some offensive options for him. I lean towards him being a 5. He's not quick enough to really step out an guard the perimeter on a significant basis as a 4 IMO.

Zeller may be better than Len at the moment, but I'd take Len over Zeller. Len just has more physical tools, more skills away from the basket and has had to deal with bad point guard play which has limited his opportunities. Zeller may make a quicker impact in the NBA but I suspect Len will turn out to be the better player down the line.

Post #996 » by **Ruzious** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:43 pm

nuposse, the thing that really makes Zeller an outstanding prospect is his BBIQ. It's way ahead of Len, Noel (who I'm a huge fan of), Plumlee, and every other big in this draft. Way ahead. Wayyyyyyy ahead - if I haven't emphasized that enough. And he's not 6'10.5. NBA players are listed at their heights WITH shoes. In HS, he measured at 6'11.5. He's a legit 7 footer.

nuposse04 · Post #997 » by **nuposse04** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:43 pm

Ruzious wrote:nuposse, the thing that really makes Zeller an outstanding prospect is his BBIQ. It's way ahead of Len, Noel (who I'm a huge fan of), Plumlee, and every other big in this draft. Way ahead. Wayyyyyyy ahead - if I haven't emphasized that enough. And he's not 6'10.5. NBA players are listed at their heights WITH shoes. In HS, he measured at 6'11.5. He's a legit 7 footer.

He definitely has good BBIQ, I'm not gonna deny that, although with how much they utilize him I'm surprised he doesn't have a better Assist to TO ratio with how much college defenses do against him. My other concern, at least looking at the stats, and maybe this is nitpicking since his FG% and other stats are pretty damn good already, he hasn't really really improved much from last year. I'm not too familiar with how they run their offense at Indiana, but I would expect him to dominate a bit more, especially with a season under his belt.

And it isn't his height that worries me, his standing reach or vertical has to check out in my book for him to match the physical criteria.

BTW, going to the G-town game tonight, will try to follow Porter as much I can.

Post #998 » by **Ruzious** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:14 pm

nuposse04 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:nuposse, the thing that really makes Zeller an outstanding prospect is his BBIQ. It's way ahead of Len, Noel (who I'm a huge fan of), Plumlee, and every other big in this draft. Way ahead. Wayyyyyyy ahead - if I haven't emphasized that enough. And he's not 6'10.5. NBA players are listed at their heights WITH shoes. In HS, he measured at 6'11.5. He's a legit 7 footer.

He definitely has good BBIQ, I'm not gonna deny that, although with how much they utilize him I'm surprised he doesn't have a better Assist to TO ratio with how much college defenses do against him. My other concern, at least looking at the stats, and maybe this is nitpicking since his FG% and other stats are pretty damn good already, he hasn't really really improved much from last year. I'm not too familiar with how they run their offense at Indiana, but I would expect him to dominate a bit more, especially with a season under his belt.

And it isn't his height that worries me, his standing reach or vertical has to check out in my book for him to match the physical criteria.

BTW, going to the G-town game tonight, will try to follow Porter as much I can.

I don't disagree, but I wouldn't expect him to have a high assist rate because when you score with the efficiency he scores at (which is really high - and notice he gets to the line a lot), it doesn't make much sense to pass unless you have to. And he does have a scorer's mentality. His t/o rate isn't bad.

What he's improved on is his rebounding - which was the legit criticism of his play last season. Notice his rebounding rate and progression there in his 2 years has been almost identical to Greg Monroe's.

Enjoy the game. I wouldn't mind seeing Porter in a Wiz uni next season.

stevemcqueen1 · Post #999 » by **stevemcqueen1** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:42 pm

I think Zeller is a safe bet. The really big time stars like Zeller and Noel are going to get nitpicked. But I think they are no brainers and it's important not to over think it with them. Just watch them play and dominate and their quality pops off the TV.

Zeller has been dominant this season on both ends of the court and should probably be the POTY. He draws so much attention it's crazy. He gets doubled probably more than anyone else in the country. Some games he gets doubled basically every time he touches the ball in the half court. He's actually going to benefit from getting less attention in the NBA and getting more space to operate.

He's such a talent. I would love to get him with our pick but I'm not sure we're going to draft high enough. Especially since it's looking like we're playing our way out of the top three or four picks. I'm hoping people start to nitpick him and he drops in the draft like Andre Drummond and Brook Lopez did.

TGW · Post #1000 » by **TGW** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:36 am

Doesn't really matter if Zeller is 7" or not. He has a 6'9 wingspan, which probably means a short standing reach. Basically he's a center with the wingspan of some guards.

I think the measurements are going to be important for him. If he truly does have a short standing reach, that will negatively affect his draft position.