Around the NBA part 4

[AllanHoustonFan]

Correct me if I'm wrong KG, but are you implying Lin is the difference between beating the Clippers since he is a "special" point guard/player?

[Knicks_Fan2]

Yes. It proves that the better player handles the ball more and takes more shots. So:

Westbrook > Harden > Lin

I'm not arguing otherwise. I'm saying Lin is a Rondo type of player and should've been given that role in NY. I'm not saying he's better than those two guys soooo not sure where you got that.

With Melo approaching the later years of his career, there was no time to waste. Some of you are choosing to stick with Felton and that's fine. But IMO, and I'm not happy about it, he is not enough.

Think of how he played against the Clippers. Hard, well and he gave it his best shot. But Paul is way better. I'm not saying Lin is Paul either, but he is a special player and a special point guard.

Letting him go was tantamount to tossing in the towel on Melo's career.

I don't really see how Lin is near the passer that Rondo is--which is Rondo's greatest attribute. Lin's a good slasher, thief on defense though gets cooked a lot as well, with a mediocre jumper. I have no interest in seeing him fail and hope he succeeds but I won't pretend he's worse than he is nor will I pretend he's more than he is. He's a good player in this league but, IMO, nothing "special."

[AllanHoustonFan]

Voice of reason number 2, shouldn't be much of a debate against someone who see him live.

Even most Rockets fans would rather have Dragic back, no diss to Lin, as he will be a good player.

but he has alot to learn about the position he plays.

It's a shame a lot of people here are emotionally attached to Linsanity. It clouds their judgement for what Lin really is.

I was one of them over the summer

That changed once I saw the guy play up close every night. He's good, and he has a certain feel for the game, but there is a huge chasm between where he is and where some fans are imagining him to be at this time.

I was one of those people too. Heck, I was one of the people calling Felton, Fatton. But as you said in an earlier post, Lin's own play himself made me realize he isn't as special as I thought he was. Do I think he will be a great PG down the road? Yes, but he isn't going to help us beat Miami right now.

[Thugger HBC]

Voice of reason number 2, shouldn't be much of a debate against someone who see him live.

Even most Rockets fans would rather have Dragic back, no diss to Lin, as he will be a good player.

but he has alot to learn about the position he plays.

It's a shame a lot of people here are emotionally attached to Linsanity. It clouds their judgement for what Lin really is.

Add me to that stack too, i definitely wanted the team to keep him, but knew he was not gonna be the Linsanity player, but once the team made it clear they had Felton on deck, i had little worries, but wanted both at that time, but knew with Kidd and Felton on deck, Lin is riding pine for a stretch.

[AllanHoustonFan]

95% of this board was attached to the whole Linsanity thing, but if you still are then idk what to tell ya.

[GONYK]

Voice of reason number 2, shouldn't be much of a debate against someone who see him live.

Even most Rockets fans would rather have Dragic back, no diss to Lin, as he will be a good player.

but he has alot to learn about the position he plays.

It's a shame a lot of people here are emotionally attached to Linsanity. It clouds their judgement for what Lin really is.

Add me to that stack too, i definitely wanted the team to keep him, but knew he was not gonna be the Linsanity player, but once the team made it clear they had Felton on deck, i had little worries, but wanted both at that time, but knew with Kidd and Felton on deck, Lin is riding pine for a stretch.

I wanted them both as well, and still think it could work if there wasn't so many outside factors to consider.

I'd much rather have Lin playing minutes than Kidd and Pablo.

Felton would have still won the starting job though.

[K_ick_God]

You can't measure the things I'm talking about in statistics. Statistics don't measure leadership or the "creativity" in the literal sense of the term of a playmaker's playmaking.

And I didn't say he averaged 18 and 8 under Woodson but he was a huge part of that team still -- he didn't lose much of anything when MD left -- and had big games. He just didn't have to go 25+ because we had our team back. Linsanity saw some inflated numbers because nobody else was playing. His teammates were the bench mostly.

Intangibles is not enough to make a case for a player being better...not when EVERY SINGLE measure says otherwise. If they had the same numbers, or a mixture of better and worse...then we could talk intangibles, but there's no way you take a guy for intangibles over a player who's better across the board.

As for his numbers being inflated by no one else playing...exactly. Since he's started playing with real NBA talent, he's fallen back to Earth and become a decent young PG with plenty good and plenty of flaws...Nothing more than that. In a Knicks system that focuses on wing ISO's and post-ups for Melo/JR...he'd be an after thought and I have plenty of doubts he could even match Felton's output since Felton is better at protecting the ball, dumping into the post and shooting from range. The only example of Lin without being a focal point in the offense is this season and he has been underwhelming.

Four consecutive games from Lin in March under Woodson with a healthy Knick roster:

13 points, 5 assists, 5 rebounds
19 points, 6 assists, 7 rebounds
18 points, 10 assists, 3 rebounds
18 points, 4 assists, 5 rebounds

And we found out he was playing hurt in that stretch.

D'Antoni deserves all the credit for Linsanity ... and Lin was only good as the focal point with bad teammates and during Linsanity ... like a person enjoys having toenail fungus.

You guys can justify the course we're on. But you can't make a credible argument that Lin would not still be absolutely thriving if he was still here -- and make no mistake, Lin absolutely thrived as a starter in NY. He played like an All-Star at age 23, during Linsanity, after Linsanity, with D'Antoni as his coach, and with Woodson as his coach.

These are the facts and they are irrefutable.

[Thugger HBC]

I wanted them both as well, and still think it could work if there wasn't so many outside factors to consider.

I'd much rather have Lin playing minutes than Kidd and Pablo.

Felton would have still won the starting job though.

Absolutely.

[god shammgod]

i would complain about what's going on in this thread but when i was last here kevin durant was better then michael jordan. this qualifies as an improvement.

[Thugger HBC]

KG, only Lin deserve credit for Linsanity, he was the one who performed when Dantoni didn't know what the hell to do.

[AllanHoustonFan]

i would complain about what's going on in this thread but when i was last here kevin durant was better then michael jordan. this qualifies as an improvement.

Who in da fuq said that?

[GONYK]

i would complain about what's going on in this thread but when i was last here kevin durant was better then michael jordan. this qualifies as an improvement.

This thread is always some varying degree of an abomination when games aren't being played

[Thugger HBC]

i would complain about what's going on in this thread but when i was last here kevin durant was better then michael jordan. this qualifies as an improvement.

I'm still waiting on the 4 players of today that would have won 6 rings in Jordans era.

[K_ick_God]

Jordan obviously wasn't overrated, obviously, but Pippen was.

That clown was a good player and nothing more if he didn't play with MJ.

[god shammgod]

i'll add my two cents to what's happening here. part of me wishes we had lin here as we could use another guard that attacks the paint and opens things up. the problem is what's going on in this thread. his fanbase would be complaining that melo is not giving him the ball enough, he should be playing over felton and the attention he would get might ruin the whole chemistry of what we have. jeremy lin the player is fine. linsanty is the problem.

[Rasho Brezec]

i would complain about what's going on in this thread but when i was last here kevin durant was better then michael jordan. this qualifies as an improvement.

Wilson vs Gallo, who you got.

[god shammgod]

i would complain about what's going on in this thread but when i was last here kevin durant was better then michael jordan. this qualifies as an improvement.

Wilson vs Gallo, who you got.

that wasn't even the worst part of that. i remember the gallo should be getting more touches then amare crowd.

[Thugger HBC]

Jordan obviously wasn't overrated, obviously, but Pippen was.

That clown was a good player and nothing more if he didn't play with MJ.

New debate...yes.

Pippen took that Bulls team to a game 7 against us in 94....hardly overrated.

[GONYK]

Jordan obviously wasn't overrated, obviously, but Pippen was.

That clown was a good player and nothing more if he didn't play with MJ.

He was 22/9/5/3/1 without Mike

[K_ick_God]

i'll add my two cents to what's happening here. part of me wishes we had lin here as we could use another guard that attacks the paint and opens things up. the problem is what's going on in this thread. his fanbase would be complaining that melo is not giving him the ball enough, he should be playing over felton and the attention he would get might ruin the whole chemistry of what we have. jeremy lin the player is fine. linsanty is the problem.

I get you. But I just don't think you can make decisions for what's best for your team based on fan chatter (that's us) or idiots like Frank Isola. I know you're not saying that but the bottom line is that you have to trust that your players want to win and will do what it takes to win. Melo was always *accused* of being selfish but I think he'd have made it work if Lin could show that he was as good as he seemed to be.

I remember people saying Rondo was the weak link in the Celtics in the summer before they won the title -- too young, not good enough. Then it turned out he was the glue that delivered them a style that won them a championship.

To take what you're saying to its extreme, it's almost like Dolan decided to take Felton because he would be nothing special, certainly not a dominant point guard, and allow Melo and his golfing buddy J.R. to do whatever the heck they wanted.

If you want to win a title, you go through the struggle and pain to adapt and become a team that moves the ball, gets easy baskets, and is hard to defend. For all of Bron's strength and scoring ability, it's actually his IQ and passing that make him really great.

Another bottom line is that iso play, taking tough shots and making tough shots in the regular season, becomes a much different story in the post-season. It makes you way too easy to defend if that's how you try to win come playoff time.