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Around the NBA part 4

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Re: Around the NBA part 4 

Post#1081 » by GONYK » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:58 pm

KnicksGod wrote:
GONYK wrote:
KnicksGod wrote:

I don't see it my friend. That's the first time I've heard Ewing described as an iso player. I think you're stretching. But it's just a word.

If Lin came down, and was handed the ball by a PG to go at his man in isolation, then it makes more sense.

Arguably it only happens on the wings when that whole side is cleared out. Arguably you can't isolate at the top.


All post play is isolation






This is not true IMO. An isolation play is a handoff to one man to go one on one, rarely in the post but sometimes. Usually on the perimeter. So you can argue that most every play is an isolation then -- as long as you are not playing against a zone, or attempting a shot against a double team, you are in isolation?


Anytime you are going one-on-one and creating your own offense.
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Re: Around the NBA part 4 

Post#1082 » by Thugger HBC » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:58 pm

Watch the video....text book iso.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBdFj3iPEvA[/youtube]
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Re: Around the NBA part 4 

Post#1083 » by K_ick_God » Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:02 pm

Thugger HBC wrote:Watch the video....text book iso.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBdFj3iPEvA[/youtube]




Just because someone labels this "isolation" on Youtube does not make it so lol.

You're using it very loosely. He is going 1 on 1 yes. Isolation and 1 on 1 are not the same thing ... to me.
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Re: Around the NBA part 4 

Post#1084 » by K_ick_God » Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:04 pm

GONYK wrote:

Anytime you are going one-on-one and creating your own offense.



Well I don't want to bang this one too hard. These are just words.

But having watched a lot of NBA ball, I've never understood a post player to be creating his own offense. That's the whole thing with big men -- they rarely create their own offense. It is initiated by an entry pass and therefore not creating their own offense.
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Re: Around the NBA part 4 

Post#1085 » by K_ick_God » Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:04 pm

Do these look like isolation plays?

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Re: Around the NBA part 4 

Post#1086 » by K_ick_God » Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:05 pm

Not to bring back bad memories, but I don't consider this an isolation play either:

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Re: Around the NBA part 4 

Post#1087 » by Thugger HBC » Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:06 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rnWHJphvh8[/youtube]

These are iso moves as well.

You're really being adamant about this.

iso plays are designed with the purpose of the ball handler to look to score while the other team mates spread the floor.

It can be any position.

I understand you may not be familiar with the term, but come on my guy.
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Re: Around the NBA part 4 

Post#1088 » by rockmanslim » Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:12 pm

Per synergy (go to http://mysynergysports.com/, you get three freebies):

Lin
0.84 PPP Overall
0.63 PPP in Isolations (Isos make up 11.9% of his logged plays), 18.5% of his logged Isos resulted in a TO
0.83 PPP as PnR ball handler (24.6% of his logged plays), 24.2% ended in a TO
0.90 PPP as Spot-up (24.4% of his logged plays), 4% ended in a TO
0.98 PPP in Transition (22.4% of his logged plays), 17.6% ended in a TO

Felton
0.83 PPP Overall
0.73 PPP in Isolations (Isos make up 11.9% of his logged plays), 7.5% of his logged Isos resulted in a TO
0.77 PPP as PnR ball handler (46.6% of his logged plays), 13.8% ended in a TO
0.97 PPP as Spot-up (14.8% of his logged plays), 10.6% ended in a TO
1.17 PPP in Transition (9.6% of his logged plays), 15.6% ended in a TO


Keep in mind the limitations of synergy's logging scheme. It only logs a play for a player if that player takes a FGA, draws a shooting foul, or turns it over. It doesn't account for assists/playmaking, only scoring and turnovers, nor does it log anything that happens in a possession prior to a player taking a FGA, drawing a shooting foul, or committing a TO.

For example, one of Lin's staple plays this season is driving in (whether in Isolation or as PnR ball handler), getting to the edge of the lane, but unable to beat his man, picking up his dribble, and getting stuck, desperately looking for a teammate to bail him out. If he doesn't turn it over (which synergy would log), the offense has to reset with the shot clock winding down. Unless he turns it over, attempts a shot, or draws a foul, such clock killing, time wasting forays aren't logged by Synergy. You have to watch the games to see this.
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Re: Around the NBA part 4 

Post#1089 » by K_ick_God » Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:12 pm

Thugger HBC wrote:[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rnWHJphvh8[/youtube]

These are iso moves as well.

You're really being adamant about this.

iso plays are designed with the purpose of the ball handler to look to score while the other team mates spread the floor.

It can be any position.

I understand you may not be familiar with the term, but come on my guy.




So anytime a guy gets the ball and scores it's an isolation play or is it only when that player has the ball for the whole possession?
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Re: Around the NBA part 4 

Post#1090 » by GONYK » Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:15 pm

rockmanslim wrote:
For example, one of Lin's staple plays this season is driving in (whether in Isolation or as PnR ball handler), getting to the edge of the lane, but unable to beat his man, picking up his dribble, and getting stuck, desperately looking for a teammate to bail him out. If he doesn't turn it over (which synergy would log), the offense has to reset with the shot clock winding down. Unless he turns it over, attempts a shot, or draws a foul, such clock killing, time wasting forays aren't logged by Synergy. You have to watch the games to see this.


:lol:

Ask any Rocket fan, that happens frequently with Lin. It almost always ends up with what my section calls "the helicopter pass", which is Lin jumping in the air and trying to turn 180 degrees and passing it back to the perimeter.
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Re: Around the NBA part 4 

Post#1091 » by Thugger HBC » Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:16 pm

it's the clear out of the other players on the court that initiate the iso.

They draw their defenders away from the primary ball handler.

Just watch LeBrons team mates draw the defenders away from him.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lt2FJsYjcjk[/youtube]
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Re: Around the NBA part 4 

Post#1092 » by AllanHoustonFan » Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:16 pm

GONYK wrote:
rockmanslim wrote:
For example, one of Lin's staple plays this season is driving in (whether in Isolation or as PnR ball handler), getting to the edge of the lane, but unable to beat his man, picking up his dribble, and getting stuck, desperately looking for a teammate to bail him out. If he doesn't turn it over (which synergy would log), the offense has to reset with the shot clock winding down. Unless he turns it over, attempts a shot, or draws a foul, such clock killing, time wasting forays aren't logged by Synergy. You have to watch the games to see this.


:lol:

Ask any Rocket fan, that happens frequently with Lin. It almost always ends up with what my section calls "the helicopter pass", which is Lin jumping in the air and trying to turn 180 degrees and passing it back to the perimeter.

:rofl:

He did the same sh*t in NY too.
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Re: Around the NBA part 4 

Post#1093 » by Falstaffxx » Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:20 pm

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/226069/Rose-Wont-Return-Until-Hes-110-Percent-Healthy

So much for the whole "Lin said he's not coming back because he's 85% omg wtf!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" obsession.

I'm not coming back until I'm 110%. Who knows when that can be?


"Right now, probably in the high 80s," he said. "Far away. Far away."
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Re: Around the NBA part 4 

Post#1094 » by K_ick_God » Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:20 pm

Thugger HBC wrote:it's the clear out of the other players on the court that initiate the iso.

They draw their defenders away from the primary ball handler.

Just watch LeBrons team mates draw the defenders away from him.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lt2FJsYjcjk[/youtube]




I agree that this is an isolation move. None of the others. It is the fact that they cleared out. LeBron was close to the top but operating on the left wing. If you look at the Irving video, his teammates are spaced but on either side of him, as they are supposed to be on any possession. That's not an isolation then, by your own definition. He has a pick set for him, he has his teammates on either side of him. They're not cleared out.

An isolation play is not designed to create a pass. You are going to go with the shot and that's that. Spacing at the wings to create space in the middle for a drive if a player can beat his man ... now you're bending the definition to me. A pass can still occur. It's not isolation. And I don't think setting a pick would be considered isolation either, now that I think of it. That's not isolation -- your teammate is helping you with a pick and his defender is there too.
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Re: Around the NBA part 4 

Post#1095 » by GONYK » Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:21 pm

Falstaffxx wrote:http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/226069/Rose-Wont-Return-Until-Hes-110-Percent-Healthy

So much for the whole "Lin said he's not coming back because he's 85% omg wtf!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" obsession.


I always thought that 85% controversy was dumb
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Re: Around the NBA part 4 

Post#1096 » by Falstaffxx » Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:22 pm

GONYK wrote:
Falstaffxx wrote:http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/226069/Rose-Wont-Return-Until-Hes-110-Percent-Healthy

So much for the whole "Lin said he's not coming back because he's 85% omg wtf!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" obsession.


I always thought that 85% controversy was dumb


I added a quote where Rose says:

"Right now, probably in the high 80s," he said. "Far away. Far away."


Just to drive home the point, haha.
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Re: Around the NBA part 4 

Post#1097 » by AllanHoustonFan » Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:23 pm

Falstaffxx wrote:http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/226069/Rose-Wont-Return-Until-Hes-110-Percent-Healthy

So much for the whole "Lin said he's not coming back because he's 85% omg wtf!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" obsession.

You're comparing a torn ACL to a meniscus tear? Listen, Lin was not trying to get exposed by the Heat so he can maximize on his new contract and I don't blame him. He probably won't get anything close to what he is making now again.
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Re: Around the NBA part 4 

Post#1098 » by Thugger HBC » Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:25 pm

AllanHoustonFan wrote:
Falstaffxx wrote:http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/226069/Rose-Wont-Return-Until-Hes-110-Percent-Healthy

So much for the whole "Lin said he's not coming back because he's 85% omg wtf!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" obsession.

You're comparing a torn ACL to a meniscus tear? Listen, Lin was not trying to get exposed by the Heat so he can maximize on his new contract and I don't blame him. He probably won't get anything close to what he is making now again.

Even worse shumpert said the same thing.

"I'm not a guy who wants to come back and have a nagging injury," Shumpert said in the gym at Highlands Middle School in White Plains, sitting in such a way that his ACL scar peeked out from the opening in his knee brace. "I just want to be back 100 percent, I don't care how long it takes. If they told me a year, I would wait a year. I just want to be healthy."

nothing to see here, just fanning a flame of nothingness.


what Lin said was 85% of minimum threshold...what the fack is that?
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Re: Around the NBA part 4 

Post#1099 » by Falstaffxx » Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:25 pm

AllanHoustonFan wrote:
Falstaffxx wrote:http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/226069/Rose-Wont-Return-Until-Hes-110-Percent-Healthy

So much for the whole "Lin said he's not coming back because he's 85% omg wtf!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" obsession.

You're comparing a torn ACL to a meniscus tear? Listen, Lin was not trying to get exposed by the Heat so he can maximize on his new contract and I don't blame him. He probably won't get anything close to what he is making now again.


I'm comparing a percentage being thrown out there to a percentage being thrown out there. And lol at your theory. :lol:
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Re: Around the NBA part 4 

Post#1100 » by Falstaffxx » Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:26 pm

Okay sorry to bring it up lol, I'll show myself the exit.

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