Marshall to Utah PLEASE

[kebutah]

Nothing better than obsessing over a future possible second round pick.

[Inigo Montoya]

Nothing better than obsessing over a future possible second round pick.

or a 30% FG d-league player

[Neon Black]

Wow. Well I certainly wouldn't say Hayward has Magic Johnson potential but that's another debate entirely. I also don't think he's Mike Miller, exactly. Mike Miller had his best years on pretty bad teams. A few similar stats don't mean anything.

Burks to me seems like a much more aggressive Kevin Martin, with less natural shooting ability.

I don't know, I'm really not a fan of the player comparison thing. No two players are really ever that alike.

[RyanStorm]

probably the dumbest thing ive read all day. no. no on marshall. just no. and if this crap starts with brandon jennings again, i might vomit on my desk at work. do you want me to vomit on my desk at work?

i don't want you to vomit on your desk at work. no jennings please. now he demands a trade because he wants to play in a bigger market. he doesn't fit here in any capacity.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/226095/Source-Jennings-Has-Irreconcilable-Differences-With-Bucks

Jennings is up for grabs.....supposedly he wants out.....Honestly I rather take Jennings over who ever backups Dragic, Dragic being the only Sun I could see the Jazz wanting. Trading with losing teams is kind of hard, cause they won't give away there best players, and the only thing left is guys who can't step up. If Suns had our bench, they would be in a way better position.

[Inigo Montoya]

jennings is looking for a max deal. are you willing to give him one? even if he will settle for less, he will ask and get way more than he's worth. do you want the jazz to pay so much to get him? with or without a trade.

he isn't worth it. there is a reason his name is Brendon Jennings and his initials is BJ - because he SUCKS.

[reapaman]

Wow. Well I certainly wouldn't say Hayward has Magic Johnson potential but that's another debate entirely. I also don't think he's Mike Miller, exactly. Mike Miller had his best years on pretty bad teams. A few similar stats don't mean anything.

Burks to me seems like a much more aggressive Kevin Martin, with less natural shooting ability.

I don't know, I'm really not a fan of the player comparison thing. No two players are really ever that alike.

Well he looked similar to mike miller since college and the similar stats are just iceing on the cake. And if you look at it just stat wise (adjusting for minutes) especially considering advance stats, 05-06 is widely regarded as Miller's best all around season in which that was a 49-33 team. Being on bad teams only inflate your stats when your being used in a favorable way that you wouldn't be used on a good team which never was the the case with miller. Hayward still has yet to show he can do what (I believe he's capable tho) Mike Miller did in 05-06 so I would consider this comparison a generous one right now. I don't see why people get so offended by the thought he could be Miller, mabey its because they never really seen him play before he lost his athletism and became a spot up shooter.

And your right no two players are the same but you try to do it to get an idea of what type of player they will be. For Burks I said Martin orginally but I think Mitch Richmond is closer. I didn't wanna go clyde drexler because thats alot to live up too but the way they move is eerily similar.

Nothing better than obsessing over a future possible second round pick.

or a 30% FG d-league player

Just so disrespectful ..... Plus it 32% FG but I except your challenge and the best man will win. KENDALL!! KENDALL!!!

P.S. Forget Jennings, I don't won't mo williams 2.0 especially at the price he will command.

[slcjosh]

Are you familiar with the apparent coaching philosophy of Ty Corbin?

This is a man who played Raja Bell 30 minutes a game in 2010-11 and 24 minutes a game last year (before the Raja/Ty blow-up) despite him clearly being the worst shooting guard in the league getting significant minutes.[/quote]

who did he have to play behind raja? (name the players and we will see if they deserved to be on court rather than bell) you also have to consider ty's decision to completely stop playing raja period last year. and the people playing in front of burks are marvin (MUCH superior defender, gordon a better player, earl and jamaal, and he splits time with demarre, who is a better defender makes the hustle plays. The reason for earl and jamaal is that they are both super experienced veterans who have handled the pg position for a combined 403 seasons or something like that. Burks isnt ready to handle the full time pg position yet, he needs to learn the position seeing that he was 2 or 3 in college. He played well last night from the 2 position.

Ty gets too much flack for holding back young players. I seem to remember deron williams riding an ass load of pine until his 3rd season under sloan...[/quote]
So Your trying to tell me that earl watson is doing a better job at pg than Burks?[/quote]

Well, seeing that we have a very small sample size of burks at the point, id have to say yes. Earl has run teams in this league for a long time. yes earl is anemic on offense, but the jazz system is not based on the scoring point guard model. burks is a natural scorer, and a natural 2 guard. why set him up for failure by playing him out of position and asking him not to do what he is best at? The problem with burks minutes is not that he needs to play point guard, the problem is that brass signed randy foye and his play has been pretty remarkable.

[slcjosh]

"
My personal opinion is that Burks should be starting PG, Corbin needs to giive him the keys to the car and see whhat happens. Like my Dad told me, "Ill give you enough rope until you hang yourself." Same thing needs to be done with Burks, his P and R is starting to get sweet. Burks would be one of the tallest, athletic PG's in the league. "

Well, as much as some might be of the opinion that he should be the starting point guard, Utah didnt draft him to be a starting point guard. He has been put in a situation where he may need to play some combo guard, but once again, that is not his natural position. All of his success this year as a player, particularly scoring, has been from the 2 guard position. Notice last nights game, he was on the court as the 2 while earl ran the 1. and he played pretty well.

[slcjosh]

Well sure Gordon is a better all around player than Burks right now, but he's had more time in the league and consistent minutes (although not enough of them).

I think you're undervaluing Burks scoring potential, though. The way he gets to the line is rare and extremely valuable. He also has the killer instinct Hayward has yet to show consistently (though he was doing better). Burks is absolutely fearless and relentless, and combined with his natural ability I really don't know what would stop him from becoming a really good player in the league and a top scorer on the team.

I dont feel like anyone really questioned burks scoring potential. but call a spade a spade, its potential. its not a proven commodity yet. Gordon has been a little inconsistent as well, but gordon is a much better defender. Burks has a better knack for getting to the freethrow line, but he is still raw. he makes bad decisions with the ball. he has a lot more to learn. I agree with you, he has the potential to be a big time player. but so does gordon and based on gordon having a season more of experience hes a more polished player at this point. but dont forget all these guys are super young. gordon is like 22 or 23, burks is barely 21. they have time to grow, but you cant jus throw them to lions and expect the franchise to be successful. and having poor seasons is not something the jazz do, even if its better in the long run. tanking is not an option.

[slcjosh]

Well sure Gordon is a better all around player than Burks right now, but he's had more time in the league and consistent minutes (although not enough of them).

I think you're undervaluing Burks scoring potential, though. The way he gets to the line is rare and extremely valuable. He also has the killer instinct Hayward has yet to show consistently (though he was doing better). Burks is absolutely fearless and relentless, and combined with his natural ability I really don't know what would stop him from becoming a really good player in the league and a top scorer on the team.

Honestly I think Burks could be like a Kobe, he just has that intensity and drive. His shot is getting smoother and he's a complete stud. I think Burks could be like Kobe and Hayward like Magic Johnson. You have them and Favors and Kanter, this team is ridiculous.

Line up should look like:

Burks/Tinsley
Foye/Rookie
Carrol/Hayward
Favors/Willaims
Jefferson (if he stays) or Kanter/FA (maybe Dalambert or Mosgov)

You just said burks could be like kobe...lets go ahead and slow down a minute. Kobe is a top 10 player to ever paly, burks has no where near that potential. no need to exaggerate that much. he has the tools to be a very successful player in the league, he is no where near kobes level. be realistic.

[slcjosh]

As said many times I see Hayward as Mike Miller and Burks as Mitch Richmond. I think Burks has that potential to reach multiple allstar apperances and be a legit starter in this league ala Richmond where hayward is more of a sixthman/fringe starter.

With that said Burks is not ready yet a important role and major minutes on a playoff team under normal circumstances. Last night was a clear indication. Even though he did some good stuff and scored 13 pts on 54% shooting and 5 rbs but he negated all that with some really bad decisions which include 6 turnovers and 4 fouls, 2 missed free throws (his only free throws), and gave up too many points. He needs alot more seasoning but these aren't normal circumstances for a playoff team. Injuries and Watson being complete crap is allowing burks to work his way too more minutes.

P.S. Marshall Mania is coming, you can't stop it. Resist all you want, it will take you over.

voice of reason. I agree, burks is not yet ready. if he could go out and score 20 a night, he would be our starting 2 guard. he not there yet. randy is a better player then burks is right now, hence the starting minutes. And marshall mania may or may not come, but we all know it shouldnt. marshall is struggling for minutes on the worst roster in the western conference. why would we want him? i swear to many people see 2 nice passes on an NBA.com hilite video from a suns-bobcats game and think "YEP!!!! hs the answer, hes the future, lets trade our best scorer and veteran presence for that guy, he made three sick passes!!!!"

its ludicrous.

[AingesBurner]

Well sure Gordon is a better all around player than Burks right now, but he's had more time in the league and consistent minutes (although not enough of them).

I think you're undervaluing Burks scoring potential, though. The way he gets to the line is rare and extremely valuable. He also has the killer instinct Hayward has yet to show consistently (though he was doing better). Burks is absolutely fearless and relentless, and combined with his natural ability I really don't know what would stop him from becoming a really good player in the league and a top scorer on the team.

Honestly I think Burks could be like a Kobe, he just has that intensity and drive. His shot is getting smoother and he's a complete stud. I think Burks could be like Kobe and Hayward like Magic Johnson. You have them and Favors and Kanter, this team is ridiculous.

Line up should look like:

Burks/Tinsley
Foye/Rookie
Carrol/Hayward
Favors/Willaims
Jefferson (if he stays) or Kanter/FA (maybe Dalambert or Mosgov)

You just said burks could be like kobe...lets go ahead and slow down a minute. Kobe is a top 10 player to ever paly, burks has no where near that potential. no need to exaggerate that much. he has the tools to be a very successful player in the league, he is no where near kobes level. be realistic.

are you angry this morning slcjosh, I said could be like Kobe; any player could be like another with enough drive and determination. I am not saying Burks could be on Kobe's level of greatness but he could have Kobe like attributes which is great.

[slcjosh]

no im not angry, i just misread your post. i thought you were saying he could be kobe. if you guys follow david locke (play by play radio voice for the jazz) he does a ton of analysis and work, you will be familiar with the oreo theory. The jazz are very good at developing their talent at a level that lets them succeed. take this quote from locke about burks last night:

"A few weeks ago Burks was running the pick and roll poorly. He wasn’t getting to the rim and he wasn’t making his shots and his defensive intensity was below where it needed to be. And then … boom. When he was struggling running the pick and roll I began to get very concerned on where his game was headed. He doesn’t have a resume as a shooter. His one on one game is ok but it is hard to finish in this league, that is a league wide issue not a Burks issue. I was beginning to wonder if he was capable on the offensive end. He needed everything in his rhythm and he hadn’t found a way to get that rhythm. However, he has made huge strides on running the pick and roll. (story here for another time) He has learned how to play under control more. He is finding his rhythm within the game off his action and others. His time at point has made him play with his teammates better. He is now comfortable at both the 1 and the 2 for stretches. He is playing with a bounce but not forcing the game. It is terrific to see come together. This has been going on for 6 games or so and it is a nice steady road that seems far more legitimate than a one night explosion every now and again against opponents who allowed him to play in a certain manner. He has learned a lot in his 2nd year and that is how it is supposed to work. The big jump for wing players is between year 2 and year 3 and if he continues the trend of the last few weeks he will be ready for that type of jump."

He is still on the developmental path. He is still a minow in a sea full of sharks.

[Neon Black]

Wow. Well I certainly wouldn't say Hayward has Magic Johnson potential but that's another debate entirely. I also don't think he's Mike Miller, exactly. Mike Miller had his best years on pretty bad teams. A few similar stats don't mean anything.

Burks to me seems like a much more aggressive Kevin Martin, with less natural shooting ability.

I don't know, I'm really not a fan of the player comparison thing. No two players are really ever that alike.

Well he looked similar to mike miller since college and the similar stats are just iceing on the cake. And if you look at it just stat wise (adjusting for minutes) especially considering advance stats, 05-06 is widely regarded as Miller's best all around season in which that was a 49-33 team. Being on bad teams only inflate your stats when your being used in a favorable way that you wouldn't be used on a good team which never was the the case with miller. Hayward still has yet to show he can do what (I believe he's capable tho) Mike Miller did in 05-06 so I would consider this comparison a generous one right now. I don't see why people get so offended by the thought he could be Miller, mabey its because they never really seen him play before he lost his athletism and became a spot up shooter.

And your right no two players are the same but you try to do it to get an idea of what type of player they will be. For Burks I said Martin orginally but I think Mitch Richmond is closer. I didn't wanna go clyde drexler because thats alot to live up too but the way they move is eerily similar

I'm not offended by the comparison. If you think Hayward's ceiling is a prime Mike Miller extended over many years then it makes sense. Most people hear "Mike Miller" and the entire sum of his performances comes into mind because he seemed to have a very short prime. My personal opinion is that even if Hayward's stats cap off at something similar to MIller's, that he'll probably be that good or a little better for a much longer period of time.

[Neon Black]

no im not angry, i just misread your post. i thought you were saying he could be kobe. if you guys follow david locke (play by play radio voice for the jazz) he does a ton of analysis and work, you will be familiar with the oreo theory. The jazz are very good at developing their talent at a level that lets them succeed. take this quote from locke about burks last night:

"A few weeks ago Burks was running the pick and roll poorly. He wasn’t getting to the rim and he wasn’t making his shots and his defensive intensity was below where it needed to be. And then … boom. When he was struggling running the pick and roll I began to get very concerned on where his game was headed. He doesn’t have a resume as a shooter. His one on one game is ok but it is hard to finish in this league, that is a league wide issue not a Burks issue. I was beginning to wonder if he was capable on the offensive end. He needed everything in his rhythm and he hadn’t found a way to get that rhythm. However, he has made huge strides on running the pick and roll. (story here for another time) He has learned how to play under control more. He is finding his rhythm within the game off his action and others. His time at point has made him play with his teammates better. He is now comfortable at both the 1 and the 2 for stretches. He is playing with a bounce but not forcing the game. It is terrific to see come together. This has been going on for 6 games or so and it is a nice steady road that seems far more legitimate than a one night explosion every now and again against opponents who allowed him to play in a certain manner. He has learned a lot in his 2nd year and that is how it is supposed to work. The big jump for wing players is between year 2 and year 3 and if he continues the trend of the last few weeks he will be ready for that type of jump."

He is still on the developmental path. He is still a minow in a sea full of sharks.

I just completely disagree with this notion that Burks wasn't getting playing time due to not playing well. From the very beginning of the season, he was receiving extremely sparse and sporadic minutes...6 minutes one game, 3 DNP's in a row, 12 minutes another game, a few more DNP's.

Ty Corbin said multiple times that Burks deserved more minutes and was simply not getting them because there weren't enough to go around.

His mediocre play was a result of inconsistent opportunities. Not the other way around. I mean think about it. As soon as injuries to Williams, Watson and Hayward occur and Burks starts getting consistent minutes, he starts playing like a stud.

I fully expect Burks to be relegated to his previous state of unpredictable, sparse playing time once everyone returns from injury.

[Neon Black]

to further back up my point, take a look:

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_ ... alec-burks

Burks gets sporadic minutes with multiple DNP's for the first couple months of the season, and his stats clearly reflect that. As SOON as he starts getting significant minutes in late January, he starts producing.

Then in early February, his minutes get ridiculous again despite arguably "earning" more playing time.

Now, with a glut of injuries, Burks is suddenly given more responsibilty over the last several games. It takes him a couple of games to get going again, but once he does his impact on the game is strongly evident...and it goes beyond stats. Pay specific attention to Burks during a game. He's plays with drive and fire 100% of the time, makes key hustle plays and has a positive impact on the team's demeanor. That Block on Rubio late vs. the Timberwolves may have saved the Jazz last night.

[RyanStorm]

Feburary has been Burks big moment....Hayward is out, and now Burks comes in off bench as 6th man...Having x2 6th men is awesome. Burks can do everything. If Marshall can be a PG, I would like to see what he can do, but he never plays.

Burks is like Hayward, they are versatile and can do lots of different things and positions. I like him as a hybrid SG/PG.

This way we get a strong True PG in the draft and have this new PG(Marcus Smart/Trey Burke etc) and Burks be our back court, or we can Marshall who can be our PG/SG. Burks is just a bad-ass, he can do way more than Foye. I would really like to find someone who fits with Burks hybrid'ness. It would be two guys who can shoot and handle the ball. Finding someone better than Burks for PG could be a challenge, remember Burks was a Lottery Pick and a great asset.